Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #19

[Canning Vale]

Sleuthjustice,

Thank you for your post. I'm unable to Reply with Quote or paste. It has crossed my mind that SS perhaps might be at KK, but when I've mentioned the theory on WS, other posters have advised otherwise. It's an interesting theory and an extra body wouldn't be found until the grave was opened for another family member or the expiry date was reached.

The cemetery didn't have much security, is open at nights, unlocked gates and accessible by vehicle. I think it would be possible for a fit & strong person to slot someone alongside another person. It would just be a matter of selecting a pre-dug hole which was easy enough to climb back out of - probably wouldn't be easy getting back up again.

Also, the KK cemetery is very isolated and the odour probably wouldn't be questioned. JMO

 

[Canning Vale]

Could it also be possible that he had intended to murder the KK victim until he became aware of her age? From what I understand, she was only 17 years old at the time of the attack. Maybe he assumed she was older but once he realised her age he couldn’t go through with the murder? Was it mentioned previously that he had gotten a hold of something that indentified her and possibly her age? Just a thought/idea anyway.

Edit: My apologies, this was supposed to be in response to SleuthJutice’s comment regarding the KK victim. Still getting the hang of everything on the forum.

beyK123,

Excellent thoughts. It was the victim's drivers licence that was found - Rowe Park abduction and KK rape. That makes a lot of sense, he noticed her DOB. Perhaps he looked at the licence under a street light.

Posters have mentioned before about SS being quite young. Also,we don't know if SS had a drivers licence. JMO

 

[Sleuthjustice]

Canning Vale,
Would you need to go into the grave? Couldn't a body be dropped in and then covered with a layer of the soil?

 

[Annalise]

This is a link to a site that records every burial in Karrakatta -

http://www.ozburials.com/CemsWA/waus.htm

 

[Sleuthjustice]

It's hard to imagine that the CSK could be merciful and let her go because of her age but anything is possible.

 

[Annalise]

I am now having trouble posting on thread. A few posts I typed up just wouldn’t go through.

 

[Canning Vale]

Sleuthjustice,

I'm back to not being able to Reply with Quote. I do think it would be possible to drop a body into an open grave and cover up with sand. The sand is beside the open hole - all ready to use.

If it was that easy,why would the CSK go to the trouble of travelling north and south to the d-sites of JR & CG.

Why change d-sites - I think he wanted them found for the attention. CG was found at Pipidinny Rd, Eglinton and during the weeks she laid there Telstra crews were working nearby - they were aware of an odour but thought it was livestock/kangaroo.

When CG was eventually found there would have been discussions at the Telstra office.

Perhaps he liked the challenge - or the thrill he got. Very disturbing. JMO

 

[janwa]

Canning Vale,
Would you need to go into the grave? Couldn't a body be dropped in and then covered with a layer of the soil?

Intriguing theory but any grave or funeral assistants would realise the 6 ft deep grave was now 5 ft so it would need digging a bit deeper to get away with it.

 

[Canning Vale]

Janwa,

My thoughts are a body being placed alongside a coffin. I've been to KK before when they've had a burial and haven't filled it in straight away. I don't think they rush those jobs. JMO

 

[janwa]

Janwa,

My thoughts are a body being placed alongside a coffin. I've been to KK before when they've had a burial and haven't filled it in straight away. I don't think they rush those jobs. JMO

CV I'm getting a visual of a cemetery worker peering into the open grave to check that there isn't any additional tenants before he starts up his digger to back fill the grave. There would be a protocol to check for this possibility (grieving partners or parents and the like.) Graves are dug the day before the funeral and left covered overnight.

 

[Mo Joe]

CV I'm getting a visual of a cemetery worker peering into the open grave to check that there isn't any additional tenants before he starts up his digger to back fill the grave. There would be a protocol to check for this possibility (grieving partners or parents and the like.) Graves are dug the day before the funeral and left covered overnight.

Covered with what? Is the cover easy to remove?

 

[Mo Joe]

Mo Joe,

I'm still not able to Reply with Quote. With regard to perhaps the CSK, whoever he may be, spotting RZ at CGs funeral.

As funerals are advertised in the newspaper it would have been possible to find out where the service was being held. What do other people think about the CSK attending a funeral and watching from a distance. Would this have been enjoyable for the CSK. Would he have taken that risk? It's also possible to drive into Karrakatta Cemetery. Perhaps he stayed at a distance and made out he was working - fiddling with the telephone cables and watching.

If RZ was a victim of the CSK what motive would there have been? Could it be possible the CSK thought he was close to CG?

Mo Joe are you able to upload a link of RZ - I'm not able too? Some of the new forum members won't know who RZ was.

The timing of RZs death was strangely close to CG and they worked together.

By the way excellent post you've uploaded, thanks.

It is my understanding that RZ attended the grave of CG on more than one occasion? Perhaps he noticed the CSK? That could possibly be a motive? I assume the site was not under surveillance? Then again, how did we come to the understanding that RZ visited multiple times? jmo

 

[Sleuthjustice]

I doubt he would have had a ladder in or on his vehicle. He would need a ladder to get out. It seems unlikely that he would jump into a grave because it would be hard to get out. Unless he prepared it earlier in the night to make it deeper, with a ladder. Seems too risky though. Mind you, taking CG when the heat was on was a very risky move. He is a risk taker.

 

[Sleuthjustice]

Mo Joe,
That motive would make sense. Also RZ probably told people he visited.

 

[Canning Vale]

What sort of equipment would the Telstra techies have in their vans? They'd need a shovel for digging to locate ground cable.
I think a small fold-up ladder for accessing ground pits. Also, telephone cable, pliers, scissors. If a techie was picked up by the police, they wouldn't come under suspicion because they're the tools of the trade.

Also, in the past someone uploaded an image of a Telstra pit, which contained a removable ladder. I noticed the ladder wasn't a permanent fixture. They probably needed a crew, back then to access a ground pit. Back then, they may not have had loan worker policies?

JMO

 

[Canning Vale]

Mo Joe,
That motive would make sense. Also RZ probably told people he visited.

I'm now able to Reply with Quote....

Perhaps the CSK did make umpteen visits to the cemetery and RZ recognized him. What if RZ was accompanied by a Graylands Staff member driving a vehicle which had Grayland's details on a sticker or number plate. Perhaps the CSK followed them back to Graylands.

A witness reported seeing what looked like a security guard standing near RZ, at some stage prior to his death.

 

[Canning Vale]

Janwa,

Getting back to you about the visual of a cemetery worker peering into the open grave to check for additional tenants....

We really need to ask a back-hoe operator. Not all employees are thorough, they just want to get the job done.

Yet, when people see something odd, they further explore to satisfy their own curiosity. JMO

 

[no name]

Interesting that they don't have stats on amphetamines which is the same derivative as meth but is a different but more dangerous end product.

I assume this was a typo Jan & you meant this the other way around. Amphetamines is the product medicinally used & methylamphetamine is the stronger product more likely to be abused for recreational purposes.

You are correct that in the right therapeutic dosage amphetamines does give clarity of thought & the other things you mentioned, however, you forgot to mention this only occurs for someone who actually NEEDS the drug in order to combat a condition it is prescribed for. For someone not requiring the drug, taking it at the therapeutic dose has little to no effect & would be required in amounts at least 3-5times the dose to be noticed.

 

[no name]

Janwa,

My thoughts are a body being placed alongside a coffin. I've been to KK before when they've had a burial and haven't filled it in straight away. I don't think they rush those jobs. JMO

You cant seriously think that they have no urgency to fill in a grave that has had a recently deceased person placed in it along with any jewellery or other precious items the person may have been been buried with. You'd have a situation of grave robbing occurring if this was the case. Plots are covered in as soon as possible after the last person attending the funeral has departed.
A newly dug grave has 2 pieces of wood placed in the bottom that the casket sits on. It would be obvious to anyone looking in if this had been disturbed and I think anyone from a funeral home would immediately cease a funeral that appeared as if the hole had been tampered with prior to the coffin being lowered.

 

[JWSleuth]

What sort of equipment would the Telstra techies have in their vans? They'd need a shovel for digging to locate ground cable.
I think a small fold-up ladder for accessing ground pits. Also, telephone cable, pliers, scissors. If a techie was picked up by the police, they wouldn't come under suspicion because they're the tools of the trade.

Also, in the past someone uploaded an image of a Telstra pit, which contained a removable ladder. I noticed the ladder wasn't a permanent fixture. They probably needed a crew, back then to access a ground pit. Back then, they may not have had loan worker policies?

JMO

They would definitely have an extendable ladder and have this on the roof for most jobs.
Interesting theory on RZ didn’t he know one of the other girls as well? Maybe he did put type and two together.