Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #19

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  • #1,361
What sort of cars did 17/18 year old kids buy in those days?

Something cheapish with mags? Aerials, CB radio. Before they get married of course.
 
  • #1,362
He would have left school at 17? Kimono at 18?

1988 was year of the driving licence. That first car. What was it?

Was it the graduation bunky to get to Telecom?
1st two years, at Telecom's College at Ley St Como to become a Technician. An extra few months at Telecom's College at William St North Perth which specialised in repairing phones, and stuff. So yeah, he'd probably need a car.

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  • #1,363
I agree with this and think we may have dismissed the Fountain Way property as factoring in to where he took the girls too quickly. I had another look last night, note the two huge roller doors on remote control. He could have taken the girls straight in without even getting out of the car and quietly rolled them down.

The Karrakatta attack in 1995, Esuiw was still registered at 10 Fountain Way. I think this is why she survived. When Sarah was taken in 1996 Esuiw had moved out, he had a house to himself probably for the first time in his life and he was free to indulge his worst fantasies. Then Jane and finally Ciara. The house in Fountain Way was sold one day before Ciara's body was found and he moved out to live with his parents.

This is why imo he stopped killing, it was for practical reasons. He didnt have his own house any more.

When the Fountain Way property was inspected, police were walking out with evidence bags but most of the attention went onto Madora Bay and the house he was currently living in. The people living at Fountain Way at the time of the arrest had to move out of that property and all their furniture went out as well when investigators went in. Whatever samples police did take out of there, it would have taken some time for results to come back. While there might not be much left by way of evidence after 20 years to find at that property, I think this is where he took the girls. Perhaps the question might be, as a single man with an empty house ... why wouldn't he?

In terms of where Sarah Spiers may be, that she left to her final destination from Huntingdale and not Claremont may be taken into consideration.

attachment.php


The clues I think are there to find in this article ... and more specifically in the roller doors.

http://www.news.com.au/national/wes...s/news-story/557f281e68cdf76d572843291ea9cef7

Hi Pandit - I have said this before and a lot of people disagree but I feel all three girls were kept alive somewhere until he killed them. As you said the accused had Fountain Way to himself for the time of the three murders. I know Jane was very decomposed when found but she had been missing for 7 weeks before being found! Ciara had been missing for 19 days and I’m sure she wasn’t laying in Pippindinny Rd for that whole time. The Fountain Way house and Madora Bay house could have been where he held them. MOO
 
  • #1,364
The report says that certain items of clothing remain missing from the murder scenes of both the women whose bodies have been found, Jane Rimmer and Ciara Glennon.

It says police are convinced both women were killed close to where they were abducted, and on the same nights that they were abducted.

They were not murdered where they were found.

http://www.australianmissingpersonsregister.com/JulieCutler.htm

Hmm I’ll have to be careful with my response here. Here goes... if you flick through the many previous pages you may find that the “close to where they were abducted” may coincide with a shop that was run by the family of one of the key person in this case ...please DELETE this if it could be considered subjudice....
That then might make sense
1. Blitz attack
2. Take to nearby shop



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  • #1,365
Hi Annalise - Madora Bay was too open and set too close to the road, without affording the privacy of driving straight in through a roller door operated by remote control that I can tell so that's one of the reasons why I think it was this house.

I've raised this now because I also think there's a possibility, with Bra's habits of collecting womens clothing and given I have him pegged as a lazy slob around the house, when he moved Jane Rimmer he could have picked up something that belonged to Sarah instead of Jane to dump at the site. There was mention of clothing that wasn't Jane's found near her.

It's my belief also, that the police have some evidence either dna (from this house) or an article of her clothing that has gone towards charging him with her murder. Either that, or he's made admissions to someone else.

Hi Pandit - I have said this before and a lot of people disagree but I feel all three girls were kept alive somewhere until he killed them. As you said the accused had Fountain Way to himself for the time of the three murders. I know Jane was very decomposed when found but she had been missing for 7 weeks before being found! Ciara had been missing for 19 days and I’m sure she wasn’t laying in Pippindinny Rd for that whole time. The Fountain Way house and Madora Bay house could have been where he held them. MOO
 
  • #1,366
I agree with this and think we may have dismissed the Fountain Way property as factoring in to where he took the girls too quickly. I had another look last night, note the two huge roller doors on remote control. He could have taken the girls straight in without even getting out of the car and quietly rolled them down.

The Karrakatta attack in 1995, Esuiw was still registered at 10 Fountain Way. I think this is why she survived. When Sarah was taken in 1996 Esuiw had moved out, he had a house to himself probably for the first time in his life and he was free to indulge his worst fantasies. Then Jane and finally Ciara. The house in Fountain Way was sold one day before Ciara's body was found and he moved out to live with his parents.

This is why imo he stopped killing, it was for practical reasons. He didnt have the privacy and security of own house any more.

When the Fountain Way property was inspected, police were walking out with evidence bags but most of the attention went onto Madora Bay and the house he was currently living in. The people living at Fountain Way at the time of the arrest had to move out of that property and all their furniture went out as well when investigators went in. Whatever samples police did take out of there, it would have taken some time for results to come back. While there might not be much left by way of evidence after 20 years to find at that property, I think this is where he took the girls. Perhaps the question might be, as a single man with an empty house ... why wouldn't he?

In terms of where Sarah Spiers may be, that she left to her final destination from Huntingdale and not Claremont may be taken into consideration.

attachment.php


The clues I think are there to find in this article ... and more specifically in the roller doors.

http://www.news.com.au/national/wes...s/news-story/557f281e68cdf76d572843291ea9cef7



No garage doors in Feb 2008, doubt they had some in the 90's then removed them.

https://goo.gl/maps/rbjmR94gMrP2
 
  • #1,367
Not even in the Supreme Court yet. Best set up a tent.

He briefly appeared in Perth Magistrates Court the day after his 2016 arrest,

https://www.smh.com.au/national/wes...-first-time-in-11-months-20180227-h0wq4p.html

There is now a Magistrates Court which is part of the Supreme Court. All pre trial hearings are heard there to leave the Supreme Court court rooms free for trials.

The criminal jurisdiction of the Supreme Court of Western Australia includes such serious matters as murder, armed robbery, arson and those Commonwealth drug offences which carry a maximum penalty of life imprisonment. Frequently, accused persons charged with any of these offences are in custody on remand. For this and other reasons, undue delay cannot be tolerated. In order to better manage those cases within the Supreme Court's jurisdiction, with the aim of reducing delay and bringing about, where possible, an early resolution to criminal cases, two measures have been introduced which have, in a positive way, impacted upon the Supreme Court's criminal jurisdiction. These measures are Voluntary Criminal Case Conferencing (VCCC) and the establishment of the Stirling Gardens Magistrates Court
 
  • #1,368
Thank you Kerouacian.

Great picture, the driveway goes straight through into the backyard and I assume the back door. Not quite a blown up theory but agree to dismiss a closed in garage.

However, what is the frame for if not roller doors which is clearly there? I think the doors are up in your picture.



No garage doors in Feb 2008, doubt they had some in the 90's then removed them.

https://goo.gl/maps/rbjmR94gMrP2
 
  • #1,369
Pandit and Annalise,

The Fountain Way property has been mentioned beforehand and does make sense. The neighbours would have been fairly close (block size approx. 680m2). There's newer concrete on the drive-way's LHS.

As the parents lived nearby, perhaps these incidents occurred when they had gone overseas. JMO

The Birnies took their victims back to their house - Moorhouse St, Willagee.

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiD9L-btc3ZAhUOObwKHbnpANsQFggpMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.perthnow.com.au%2Fnews%2Fwa%2Fmoorhouse-street-home-of-serial-killers-david-and-catherine-birnie-for-sale-ng-2b01d69a651fe6f4242ba24d232cadda&usg=AOvVaw0CB4RONRUKbMrc3f4UbToq
 
  • #1,370
Hi Pandit - I have said this before and a lot of people disagree but I feel all three girls were kept alive somewhere until he killed them. As you said the accused had Fountain Way to himself for the time of the three murders. I know Jane was very decomposed when found but she had been missing for 7 weeks before being found! Ciara had been missing for 19 days and I’m sure she wasn’t laying in Pippindinny Rd for that whole time. The Fountain Way house and Madora Bay house could have been where he held them. MOO
Just a hunch, but I think that the opinion of the girls being taken straight to the dump sites to commit whatever is being accused, might be based upon an opinion of Kerry Turner's dump site near Canning Dam and a detective's opinion that she was the first in this alleged SK case early on when Macro was being formed. IMO the theory stuck and they only saw what suited the theory. For all we know, their theory on Kerry and the subsequent killings could be wrong. They dismissed links to Kerry, however kept the theory.
We'll see what comes out at trial.

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  • #1,371
I have always discounted the photos entirely , they are poor quality and the purpose was for identification , nothing else , I did not know anyone to identify them , so forget about it ... The amount of time wasted on these photos and mystery men who nobody knows is rediculous

Because of ignoring things like this my eyes have been open to things a lot of others missed ... This is the problem with theories , people only see things that suit their agenda ... I am not alone in my way of doing things , there are a others who do the same

Following facts actually leads you to places where you find more of them .... I thought I had run out of ways of following the people I am interested in ... One tiny little fact on here led me find years worth of information I would have missed entirely , and that info confirmed even more what was already known

Frequant - I mean his with all respect, do you really think that anyone on this post is going to bring “new information” to this case?
1. The Police have shared what they have wanted to share with the Public.
2. The Prosecution have to share their findings with the Defence.

We, the general Public know nothing more unless of course we are witnesses, friends of Police etc.
So if you are expecting to hear ‘new’ stuff in this Forum...I doubt you’re going to have your expectations met. Most of us are just really interested in the case, have a sincere feeling of loss for he girls and their families are just like to speculate.
If you can accept the above points, then you won’t get so seemingly frustrated.

I agree that there is some really odd speculation in this forum and that stuff gets rehashed from time to time but everyone is entitled to their opinion (as you are) and you can’t expect newer posters (like myself) to have knowledge of every previous post.
JMO


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  • #1,372
Anyone ever thought SS might be located off Albany Hwy somewhere, like down near Jarrahdale Rd?

What makes you hunk of that location? Please don’t say “it’s just a feeling I get” :)
She could be anywhere I guess. RIP SS.



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  • #1,373
Yes. The accused was in a special team of Telstra techies that got overtime and call outs. My old school friend only ever worked in the normal team under the accused's father. The team that the accused worked in was a sought after by techies due to the extra money from call outs after hours and on weekends.

Originally the accused's tech team was based in Ewing St Bentley Telstra Depot, until early 1990's when The Telstra Complex in Kewdale Rd was being built. The Technicians depot was originally in demountable buildings until the Complex was completed.

Yes, before you ask, we discussed the compensation basin (Bush area) that you can see immediately north of the Telstra Complex in Kewdale in previous threads, and a D/Sgt from Macro was told that it might be a site worth searching.

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cache.php

Ok , thank you , my ponderings were more in line that the night shift job would give him a reason to be in the area if questioned ...but if the depot was in Kewdale that rules my idea out
 
  • #1,374
I agree with this and think we may have dismissed the Fountain Way property as factoring in to where he took the girls too quickly. I had another look last night, note the two huge roller doors on remote control. He could have taken the girls straight in without even getting out of the car and quietly rolled them down.

The Karrakatta attack in 1995, Esuiw was still registered at 10 Fountain Way. I think this is why she survived. When Sarah was taken in 1996 Esuiw had moved out, he had a house to himself probably for the first time in his life and he was free to indulge his worst fantasies. Then Jane and finally Ciara. The house in Fountain Way was sold one day before Ciara's body was found and he moved out to live with his parents.

This is why imo he stopped killing, it was for practical reasons. He didnt have the privacy and security of own house any more.

When the Fountain Way property was inspected, police were walking out with evidence bags but most of the attention went onto Madora Bay and the house he was currently living in. The people living at Fountain Way at the time of the arrest had to move out of that property and all their furniture went out as well when investigators went in. Whatever samples police did take out of there, it would have taken some time for results to come back. While there might not be much left by way of evidence after 20 years to find at that property, I think this is where he took the girls. Perhaps the question might be, as a single man with an empty house ... why wouldn't he?

In terms of where Sarah Spiers may be, that she left to her final destination from Huntingdale and not Claremont may be taken into consideration.

attachment.php


The clues I think are there to find in this article ... and more specifically in the roller doors.

http://www.news.com.au/national/wes...s/news-story/557f281e68cdf76d572843291ea9cef7
"Forensic officers were in the backyard of the Fountain Way property on Wednesday using ground-probing equipment to check below the surface of a large area of lawn". They also lifted slabs near a shed. Click the channel 7 video with the slabs for further info and a photo bomber.

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wa...t-edwards-ng-9e254eb24fdf9b6fc88b7a49000ba6fd
 
  • #1,375
  • #1,376
Good pickup Owlie & Janwa , think there are mistakes. Seems like a shonky article with errors or poor researching.
I've never heard of that story ,
in my opinion .

Unfortunately with a lot of the analysis sleuthers have done with Claremont and more particularly JC it has become fairly clear that Western Australian newspapers weren't the most accurate as to fine details of cases. Car and bus stop were obviously interchangeable.
 
  • #1,377
Hi Canningvale,

Serial killer Israel Keyes took women back to his house and into his backyard workshop when his partner and daughter were actually at home. They were completely unaware.

There's history of killers opening the door to guests and even entertaining them while a woman was tied up in a cupboard or similar, nobody knew a thing so the idea that Bra took the girls back to a house he had all to himself in complete privacy really ... at any time, should not surprise anyone imo.

Sarah was taken just after 2.00am, Bra didn't have a lot of time until dawn so I think it's possible she wasn't taken to her grave by him until at least the next day or after when he could take his time.

Edit: More importantly I think, there's a reason why he stopped killing after Ciara and the only thing that changed was that he didn't have his own house any more, it was sold. This is in the main, why I think the girls went to Fountain Way.

Pandit and Annalise,

The Fountain Way property has been mentioned beforehand and does make sense. The neighbours would have been fairly close (block size approx. 680m2). There's newer concrete on the drive-way's LHS.

As the parents lived nearby, perhaps these incidents occurred when they had gone overseas. JMO

The Birnies took their victims back to their house - Moorhouse St, Willagee.

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiD9L-btc3ZAhUOObwKHbnpANsQFggpMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.perthnow.com.au%2Fnews%2Fwa%2Fmoorhouse-street-home-of-serial-killers-david-and-catherine-birnie-for-sale-ng-2b01d69a651fe6f4242ba24d232cadda&usg=AOvVaw0CB4RONRUKbMrc3f4UbToq
 
  • #1,378
  • #1,379
There are many possibilities as to why MM didn't come forward 2 others being.

Connection to CSK

Connection to another serious crime

Or they didn't want to become a suspect. Coming forward would have been the right thing to do but I wouldn't blame them if they got scared and decided to keep quiet...
 
  • #1,380
Was it Sarah? Are the three guys in one of the documentary videos in a car, one looks back and she is gone?

That’s the car story that I’ve heard about many times.


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