Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #20

[Frequant Flyer]

Maybe someone could know the answer to this , some of you may have seen the telecom techs working in the pits with the wiring etc. in suburban streets
The pits are covered with concrete tops I think when not being worked on , maybe metal tops
Did these pits ever become redundant , when operating systems change for example

 

[Annalise]

Has it ever been considered SS never left Claremont at all , and never got into a car
Stalking on foot would not be so noticeable, in a car I think Kerb crawling would have been
Im not saying that she was not removed at a later date , but why did she have to get in a car at all .... Maybe the car was parked in the church and not being driven
The time frame to get someone into a car unwillingly seems unlikely , this is all guess work , but maybe the car scenario makes no sense because it never happened

Frequant Flyer - smart thinking! If SS was grabbed and taken into bushes or behind a building that would explain how she disappeared into thin air. MOO

 

[petedavo.au]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Cold case homicide detectives want to find a 1992 white Toyota Camry station wagon - could the [/FONT]Toyota Camry
linked to SS have been dressed up as a taxi?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-...n-sarah-spiers-cold-case-murder-probe/9382290

Photo of a 1992 Toyota Camry taken off internet.

Yes, I see we posted similar thoughts at the same time.

You make an excellent point about the CSK having to be nearby. I think also to achieve such a successful abduction in such a short timeframe there's a fair chance the CSK must have been watching in advance. Just driving along seeing a woman by the side of the road and a car just up ahead - that's a massive coincidence and a huge risk to take.

I'm not personally sold on the taxi idea (unless when the guys said they saw lights go out they meant the attachment at the top of the car where a taxi's light is on, but I haven't seen that stated conclusively). I personally believe that the CSK had had contact with SS previously, whether that night or another time, and that's why she trusted the person enough to get in the car.

Obviously JMO.


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Late at night. A little worse for wear. White car pulls up with radio scanner on, maybe on a taxi channel. In dim light, looks like a taxi, sounds like a taxi. Driver says "You want a lift?" "You waiting for a taxi" he asks.
She misinterpreted the question to mean that he's asking because he's the taxi that she called, and she hops in, and the cars mobile before she realises it ain't a taxi at all.
Would appear probable to me. I once had a girl jump in my car at traffic lights in Melbourne once because she thought the sound of the CB radio meant that my car was a taxi.

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[Annalise]

Frequant Flyer - the CSK could have parked his car nearby. Sarah was petite all it would take for a big guy to abduct her would be to put a hand over her mouth and pick her up with the other. Dark empty street. Car parked close. MOO

 

[Frequant Flyer]

Frequant Flyer - the CSK could have parked his car nearby. Sarah was petite all it would take for a big guy to abduct her would be to put a hand over her mouth and pick her up with the other. Dark empty street. Car parked close. MOO

Yes , I am just looking at alternatives to car abductions , I may be totally wrong , I'm just guessing like everyone else... The only reason I suggested the church is because it would have been empty but so everywhere else at that time

 

[Akai]

Late at night. A little worse for wear. White car pulls up with radio scanner on, maybe on a taxi channel. In dim light, looks like a taxi, sounds like a taxi. Driver says "You want a lift?" "You waiting for a taxi" he asks.
She misinterpreted the question to mean that he's asking because he's the taxi that she called, and she hops in, and the cars mobile before she realises it ain't a taxi at all.
Would appear probable to me. I once had a girl jump in my car at traffic lights in Melbourne once because she thought the sound of the CB radio meant that my car was a taxi.

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Good point. I can foresee a scenario where SS maybe thought it was a taxi due to the combination of alcohol and perhaps his cleverness in posing the question. Don't think the car was "dressed up" to look like a taxi though.

However, still not my preferred option because I think it leaves too much to chance. I think the CSK's activities were quite well planned. Driving around all night hoping to come across a woman waiting for a taxi - he might never have come across the right target plus it's quite conspicuous. In fairness, he might have targeted SS and then used the taxi line.

All JMO of course.

One of the unanswered questions from all the Claremont abductions is how drunk the women were. A person is, as you rightly point out, more likely to confuse a car with a taxi when they're drunk.


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[Akai]

Has it ever been considered SS never left Claremont at all , and never got into a car
Stalking on foot would not be so noticeable, in a car I think Kerb crawling would have been
Im not saying that she was not removed at a later date , but why did she have to get in a car at all .... Maybe the car was parked in the church and not being driven
The time frame to get someone into a car unwillingly seems unlikely , this is all guess work , but maybe the car scenario makes no sense because it never happened

Interesting scenario. Certainly one I've not heard (but I haven't read every post of every thread so apologies to anyone who has brought this up before!). Car parked near where SS was and then grabbed and bundled into the car, which is also much like KK appears to have been. Would have given more time for CSK because he could still have been wrestling with her, but away from the vision of the road, passing cars and the taxi.

Thinking..........

That would probably mean watching the phone box on the chance someone appropriate used it. It was 2am so he would likely have been watching for awhile. Would he leave that to chance?

Just thinking out loud a bit here.


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[El Gordo]

If SS left the club at 2 am , called a cab at 2.06 am , was on the corner of Stirling Highway and Street by 2.09 am I do not think she was drunk at all

 

[no name]

Its all just off to me. The most logical explanations I came up with was he saw her walking down the road, presumed she was likely going to the phone box and pulled into the carpark at BC and laid in wait. Hence me asking Bunnie previously if she knew what route the cabby took once he arrived at the intersection. If he had a green light as he approached travelling east on Stirling Highway and simply glanced up Stirling St, not seeing her immediately so proceeded through along the highway, I think he may well have missed seeing the perps car with both of them still close by. If he turned into Stirling St and pulled over near the phone box, he may have got a better look. Bunnie didn't respond previously. Are you around Bunnie?
Failing that, saw her there pulled up asking for directions with the old UBD on the center console, clearly she cant show him from outside the car and he may have looked friendly enough that she opened the door and leant in. He'd have to have a quick method to disable her and take off though. Or he said, I'll pull in here (carpark) & you show me. If thats the case, see comments re Taxi again.
Only other alternative for me.. Who were those guys that saw her. How thoroughly were they checked. Each others alibi & nothing more to follow up perhaps? Its all very odd.

 

[Spinnaker]

Its all just off to me. The most logical explanations I came up with was he saw her walking down the road, presumed she was likely going to the phone box and pulled into the carpark at BC and laid in wait. Hence me asking Bunnie previously if she knew what route the cabby took once he arrived at the intersection. If he had a green light as he approached travelling east on Stirling Highway and simply glanced up Stirling St, not seeing her immediately so proceeded through along the highway, I think he may well have missed seeing the perps car with both of them still close by. If he turned into Stirling St and pulled over near the phone box, he may have got a better look. Bunnie didn't respond previously. Are you around Bunnie?
Failing that, saw her there pulled up asking for directions with the old UBD on the center console, clearly she cant show him from outside the car and he may have looked friendly enough that she opened the door and leant in. He'd have to have a quick method to disable her and take off though. Or he said, I'll pull in here (carpark) & you show me. If thats the case, see comments re Taxi again.
Only other alternative for me.. Who were those guys that saw her. How thoroughly were they checked. Each others alibi & nothing more to follow up perhaps? Its all very odd.

Could the guys in the car actually of seen the real taxi arrive and she was bundled into a waiting car or bushes already at this point. Perhaps the cabbie pulled over and turned his lights off to pick up another fare.

 

[Spinnaker]

To have abducted SS with such precise timing - IMO the alleged CSK was either following SS or laying in wait.

 

[no name]

Could the guys in the car actually of seen the real taxi arrive and she was bundled into a waiting car or bushes already at this point. Perhaps the cabbie pulled over and turned his lights off to pick up another fare.

I think so yeah. If the cabby took Curtain Ave from Eric St instead of the highway he would have driven straight past them if they were in bc carpark. If he took another fare from there, other people were close too

 

[Annalise]

There has to be something in this :

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/9ntidqi1g...+Sarah+too.pdf

The Post 25th Oct 2002

I saw Sarah too: witness backs taxi driver
The Post
Bret
Christian
2005.10.02
A Jolimont
man has backed up the story of taxi driver Steven Ross who says he took Sarah Spiers to South Perth on
the morning before she disappeared.
David Boudville (53), of Lansdowne Street, said he had seen Ms Spiers with a man outside a flat in Mill Point Road
early in the morning she disappeared, in January 1996.
Mr Boudville owned an investment unit on the ground floor at 160 Mill Point Road, South Perth.
"I was standing around in the foyer pondering whether it was too early to knock on the door to talk abou
t rent," he
said.
"Sarah Spiers and a man came in, pressed the button for the lift and they both went upstairs.
"I'm certain it was her. I'm pretty good with faces because I do a lot of photography.
"As soon as I saw her photo in the paper I contacted t
he police and said that I'd seen her."
Taxi driver Steven Ross said he contacted police eight years ago to say he had dropped Ms Spiers near the Windsor
Hotel in South Perth early on the day before she disappeared.
In late August this year, his home in E
mbleton, owned by former Claremont mayor Peter Weygers, was raided by
Macro officers (POST August 28).
Mr Weygers' home in Richardson Avenue, Claremont, was raided and searched three weeks later.
Mr Ross said he had contacted police in 1996 because Ms Sp
iers (18) had got into his taxi outside Club Bay View in
Claremont.
He had thought it was the night she disappeared, but later discovered it was the night before.
But he said he still believed the man who rode in his cab with her might know something
about the crime.
Mr Ross said the man appeared to be hanging around outside Club Bay View waiting for a woman to catch a cab
alone.
When Ms Spiers got into the cab, the man got in beside her. It was clear they did not know each other.
Then a young woman
who had been drinking got in the front and asked to go to Dalkeith. The man had originally
said he wanted to go to a nightclub in the city.
Mr Ross said he dropped the woman in Dalkeith then headed for Mounts Bay Road.
Sarah and the man were chatting, a
nd by the time they reached the University of WA the man had decided to go
to South Perth, where Ms Spiers was heading.
When the cab reached the Windsor Hotel, in Mill Point Road, the cab stopped. The man pushed Sarah out of the
cab, paid the fare and got
out with her.


Sarah may have known the person offering a lift. As discussed before she may have been with the perp the night before in taxi to the Windsor Hotel. Was supposedly seen with a tall dark haired guy in the foyer of the apartment block where she lived. If this was Sarah and she was with CSK on the morning of Australia Day 1996 then perhaps he was waiting for her and offered her a lift.

 

[Spinnaker]

I think so yeah. If the cabby took Curtain Ave from Eric St instead of the highway he would have driven straight past them if they were in bc carpark. If he took another fare from there, other people were close too

It was the early hours after Australia Day - would definitely have been people about. I keep going back to the timing, so precise, had to be preplanned in advance.

 

[El Gordo]

It was the early hours after Australia Day - would definitely have been people about. I keep going back to the timing, so precise, had to be preplanned in advance.

I would not be so sure of many people being around ... I have no idea about this , but could you see the Sky Show from Claremont ... if not a lot may have not been In the area , and I doubt to many of the young ones would be going at 2am if they went to it ... they used to start early on that day ... they still do

 

[Akai]

There has to be something in this :

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/9ntidqi1g...+Sarah+too.pdf

The Post 25th Oct 2002

I saw Sarah too: witness backs taxi driver
The Post
Bret
Christian
2005.10.02
A Jolimont
man has backed up the story of taxi driver Steven Ross who says he took Sarah Spiers to South Perth on
the morning before she disappeared.
David Boudville (53), of Lansdowne Street, said he had seen Ms Spiers with a man outside a flat in Mill Point Road
early in the morning she disappeared, in January 1996.
Mr Boudville owned an investment unit on the ground floor at 160 Mill Point Road, South Perth.
"I was standing around in the foyer pondering whether it was too early to knock on the door to talk abou
t rent," he
said.
"Sarah Spiers and a man came in, pressed the button for the lift and they both went upstairs.
"I'm certain it was her. I'm pretty good with faces because I do a lot of photography.
"As soon as I saw her photo in the paper I contacted t
he police and said that I'd seen her."
Taxi driver Steven Ross said he contacted police eight years ago to say he had dropped Ms Spiers near the Windsor
Hotel in South Perth early on the day before she disappeared.
In late August this year, his home in E
mbleton, owned by former Claremont mayor Peter Weygers, was raided by
Macro officers (POST August 28).
Mr Weygers' home in Richardson Avenue, Claremont, was raided and searched three weeks later.
Mr Ross said he had contacted police in 1996 because Ms Sp
iers (18) had got into his taxi outside Club Bay View in
Claremont.
He had thought it was the night she disappeared, but later discovered it was the night before.
But he said he still believed the man who rode in his cab with her might know something
about the crime.
Mr Ross said the man appeared to be hanging around outside Club Bay View waiting for a woman to catch a cab
alone.
When Ms Spiers got into the cab, the man got in beside her. It was clear they did not know each other.
Then a young woman
who had been drinking got in the front and asked to go to Dalkeith. The man had originally
said he wanted to go to a nightclub in the city.
Mr Ross said he dropped the woman in Dalkeith then headed for Mounts Bay Road.
Sarah and the man were chatting, a
nd by the time they reached the University of WA the man had decided to go
to South Perth, where Ms Spiers was heading.
When the cab reached the Windsor Hotel, in Mill Point Road, the cab stopped. The man pushed Sarah out of the
cab, paid the fare and got
out with her.


Sarah may have known the person offering a lift. As discussed before she may have been with the perp the night before in taxi to the Windsor Hotel. Was supposedly seen with a tall dark haired guy in the foyer of the apartment block where she lived. If this was Sarah and she was with CSK on the morning of Australia Day 1996 then perhaps he was waiting for her and offered her a lift.

I'd read the account of this before, but not with quite as much detail.

At the very least, this story says to me that SS was very trusting of people and whoever got in the taxi was a good talker. Random guy gets into taxi with her and after a fifteen - twenty minute ride or so she's comfortable enough to go out with him. If some guy jumped in a taxi like that with me he'd be lucky not to end up faceplanted on the ground after I literally kicked him out. Also a bit surprised the taxi driver didn't do something about that. (Once had a guy try to jump in my taxi when it was stopped at traffic lights. I was hanging on to the door from the inside and the taxi driver eventually got out and physically removed the guy from the other side. Daytime so not quite as scary as at night.) That does suggest to me that she could have been lured into a car without too much difficulty, especially if it was someone she had previously communicated with.

(Please note that it is not my intention to come across as victim-blaming. Just making observations.)


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[DRT]

Assuming the girl seen by the car of three guys was SS, then she would have already have rung her taxi - there goes at least one minute. We then have only two minutes before actual taxi arrives. Very slim timeframe!

I know on this site there has been the debate of whether the girls got into the car or if they were abducted. I have seen several articles where it seems to indicate they got into the car maybe because CG was seen talking to the occupant of a car. There was also talk of fake taxis driving around the area.

"PAUL FERGUSON: Got into the wrong car and it cost them their lives. The answer is out there. Someone who is listening has the answer."

https://au.news.yahoo.com/sunday-night/a/28471453/transcript-catching-the-claremont-killer/

 

[Akai]

To have abducted SS with such precise timing - IMO the alleged CSK was either following SS or laying in wait.

Agree. Don't see any alternative given the right timeframe, whichever way she was taken.


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[Canning Vale]

If the accused did try to entice or trick the three ladies into his car, there will probably be other’s who he wasn’t successful in luring. Others who survived that are now possible witnesses.

 

[Spinnaker]

Lets's consider the below taxi attack:

Below extract from 'The Devil's Garden:

"in the same year as the KK attack (1995) "a young woman got into a taxi at Claremont and the driver drove her over the railway line to the golf course. Forcibly stripped of her clothes, she manages
to escape".

The Claremont golf course, like KK is very deserted at night.