Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #5

[crabstick]

You are right. There is no mention of GBL in the book.

There is however some differences between paperback and digital. I am yet to find the paperback in the pile of boxes. I believe the bit about the wedding is in the paper back. I have to find out about chemicals at Ciara scene in the paperback. The digital search in EPUB is not as user friendly as I thought. But I can fix that.
Does anyone have any info in the book on whether cleaning chemicals were found at Ciaras site? Although there was the clothes line with printing chemicals? Guess what is used for cleaning printers...
I have other reasons for thinking the use of GBL, but I haven't a source, so lets leave it at that.

Crabstick

The Devil's Garden does NOT mention GBL. A link to a book is not a complete source. Please post a page number or location. Thank you.

There was this rumour. There was rumour that it was an ex coppers son who lived in Cottesloe. But it was unsubstantiated rumour.
There was a lot of rumour, only one degree from coppers involved in the investigation. But there is no source.
Another rumour was from a copper, there was a knife involved, but I heard nothing of throats cut. The rumours from cops are the only rumours I took some notice of. Even then.

If a rumour from another cop is true. The person knew enough about DNA of time, and let the cops know in no uncertain terms.

Te book clearly states, Jane Rimmer was strangled

Can anybody recall a Policeman's son being mentioned by either a poster to a forum or by word of mouth? I'm already aware the news paper article outlining the account of the blonde bobbed hair man offering lifts who said something along similar lines.

 

[BenJones84]

Did any of the bodies have needle marks on their arm? Were any solvents / cleaning chemicals found in their blood samples as if they were injected? I keep seeing this thing about cleaning chemicals.. if so I think Peter Kurten may be able to help with that one

 

[Parkie]

The attack in Davies Rd near the Golf course & also Princess Rd might be of the CSK. Might not either. But the woman who broke her leg when she life savingly exiting a mufti taxi, well that means two were (already) in the car that was made to look like a taxi, hence me saying the word; 'Mufti.' I am not sure that is by the CSK.
The Coles Loading dock attack leans towards the CSK. The Skirt ripping charming fellow in Church Lane by Club Bay View /Hungry Jacks; Well that simply screams of the CSK`s work. IMO that is. That points out his M.O for everything he does. No blood in the car with knives etc. Everyone knew a wee bit about DNA thereabouts?
Now; J.R. IMO she met him previously, hence a friendly smile & sadly they went off together in his car or a pals or relatives, who knows. SS is most interesting. This is what set off the investigation. She had no idea CSK was about. But were there previous ones? Maybe cause they were not murdered? Cops think it`s just drunk horny crime committing locals?
They don`t see the links. Agreed? So as said above by many; Was the CSK near the phone box that everyone used down Stirling Rd corner. Can someone tell me how long the Selby older adult mental health service in Lemnos St has being going for? It is right by the Shenton Bushland? Relax; Just thinking of ideas as most have run out of bushland to look at. Yet most armchair detectives don`t wanna get out of their comfort zones & walk the walk instead of talk the talk.

 

[crabstick]

That may have been a rumour derived from the profiler saying the person cleans their car a lot. But there was a rumour that some precautions were taken to prevent DNA transfer which involved a chemical. There is no source, but it was not a long winded chinese whisper. The rumour was within in days of one the crimes from police.
The rumour may have just been to scare the hell out of people.

Did any of the bodies have needle marks on their arm? Were any solvents / cleaning chemicals found in their blood samples as if they were injected? I keep seeing this thing about cleaning chemicals.. if so I think Peter Kurten may be able to help with that one

 

[88mph]

I think it's Mony Leucus. Watch the vid in this link below and go to the 27min30secs mark. One of his victims gives a graphic description of a terrible beating at his hands, being abducted, needled with heroin (in her view that was the substance) and the woman says he was a heroin dealer, and she detailed he had a (fully) plastic-lined boot in his vehicle on the day of the vicious attack. Click on the 'before you leap' link.

I think the ex policeman indicated it was 2001 that he'd come across the lined-boot guy and it fits perfectly in Leucus's timeline.

There is a vid still of Jane Rimmer scene that I had not seen before; it is obvious this was taken a short time after the discovery on 3 August 1996.

http://www.abc.net.au/austory/specials/beforeyouleap2/default.htm


Thankyou to everyone that have sent me private messages wondering if I am safe and healthy. Yes I am thankyou, have been very busy of late but have only recently been able to pop back onto the site to check if there's been any progress.

Just watched the link, thanks. Very compelling.

So you think MM is ML?

Let's say MM is ML and he's the charming guy we're lead to believe - he charms JR and she willing goes with him that night. Remembering JR was the only one not looking for a taxi of the abducted girls, JR was looking to party and possibly looking to pickup herself (that's how I interpreted her friends account on CIA).

This scenario could lead to MM/ML driving JR home in his commodore, fully undressing her and then for whatever reason killing her.

JR is the most interesting to me as she's the only victim to disappear from Claremont central and the only one fully naked - which tie into the theory that she was hit on and picked up.

ML being a suspect could also lend the taxi theory to SS and GC.

 

[Sutton]

It's been up here all along. Post #1028 of thread number 4.

For whatever reason, I am unable to find a video link on that page. You noted this video in thread #4 and I "corrected" you. Sorry. Apparently it is there for everyone else though.

 

[Sutton]

You are right. There is no mention of GBL in the book.

There is however some differences between paperback and digital. I am yet to find the paperback in the pile of boxes. I believe the bit about the wedding is in the paper back. I have to find out about chemicals at Ciara scene in the paperback. The digital search in EPUB is not as user friendly as I thought. But I can fix that.
Does anyone have any info in the book on whether cleaning chemicals were found at Ciaras site?...

Te book clearly states, Jane Rimmer was strangled

To my knowledge there are NO differences between the print version of a book and the electronic version. Books can be formatted differently, but all text must remain the same.

Yes, there are details of Denise Glennon's wedding in the book.

Your claims:

1. Ciara visited the Freshwater Yacht Club the day before her disappearance.
2. Ciara's uncle was a property developer who donated a large sum to the investigation.
3. The Devil's Garden clearly says Jane Rimmer was strangled.

I don't think any of these details are factual. Please provide the page numbers of this information.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Just watched the link, thanks. Very compelling.

So you think MM is ML?

Let's say MM is ML and he's the charming guy we're lead to believe - he charms JR and she willing goes with him that night. Remembering JR was the only one not looking for a taxi of the abducted girls, JR was looking to party and possibly looking to pickup herself (that's how I interpreted her friends account on CIA).

This scenario could lead to MM/ML driving JR home in his commodore, fully undressing her and then for whatever reason killing her.

JR is the most interesting to me as she's the only victim to disappear from Claremont central and the only one fully naked - which tie into the theory that she was hit on and picked up.

ML being a suspect could also lend the taxi theory to SS and GC.

1. I think she is saying she thinks plastic lined boot man in ML. I have Donald Morey as favourite with ML a dark horse.

2. The evidence suggests that MM is not involved and was a red herring. Sutton analysed the CCTV footage and determined the taping swaps between 3 cameras every minute or so. When you have a look at the missing footage it makes it highly likely a front on recording of MM is missing.

People talk about all sorts of suspects (i.e. SAS and defence staff) with some sort of proviso that these people must have frequented Conti/Club, or been there on the night. It's way more likely the CSL lurked on the periphery of Claremont.

3. The reading I got about JR is she just wanted a BF (she actually had one a few months prior that wasn't overly serious) and stayed out to try and meet some one. I think she may have been slightly depressed and vulnerable. I also got the impression she was a bit of an outsider in that group of friends.

4. I think she was naked because she was raped. My guess is SS suffered the same fate with CG being the odd one out.

5. I think we have to assume ML was investigated thoroughly. From all reports he was a violent and angry man whereas I think the CSK was calm, measured and clinical.

 

[crabstick]

I have looked at a lot of info at late. Ill try and find the reference. But I do want to find the paperback, as I want to find the reference to Ciaras visit to the Freshwaterbay Yacht Club. I know I havent dreamed the yacht club visit up.

Here is another reference till I sort the book issues out. Search, and ah, search for the paper version. I have spoken to Debi about the two.

The body of one of these, Ms Jane Rimmer (23), was found last August. She had been strangled. The second woman, Ms Sarah Spiers, who was also in her early 20s and vanished last year, is still missing. It is understood that all three were past pupils of the Iona Presentation Convent in Perth, where Mrs Glennon had worked as a teacher.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/irishwoman-s-death-linked-to-australian-serial-killer-1.58756

To my knowledge there are NO differences between the print version of a book and the electronic version. Books can be formatted differently, but all text must remain the same.

Yes, there are details of Denise Glennon's wedding in the book.

Your claims:

1. Ciara visited the Freshwater Yacht Club the day before her disappearance.
2. Ciara's uncle was a property developer who donated a large sum to the investigation.
3. The Devil's Garden clearly says Jane Rimmer was strangled.

I don't think any of these details are factual. Please provide the page numbers of this information.

 

[Bartholemeus]

I have looked at a lot of info at late. Ill try and find the reference. But I do want to find the paperback, as I want to find the reference to Ciaras visit to the Freshwaterbay Yacht Club. I know I havent dreamed the yacht club visit up.

Here is another reference till I sort the book issues out. Search, and ah, search for the paper version. I have spoken to Debi about the two.

The interim reference you provided does not address Sutton's questions. Are you doing this on purpose?

ps: I've read the DM book and I'm absolutely certain there is no reference to cleaning chemicals found at the dump site.

ps2: The Irish Times article - has incorrect details all the way through. Completely unrelaible and should never be used as a source of truth.

 

[crabstick]

Hooking up with a bloke wasnt really on the cards based on this info. Ciara had an appointment. Even a random off the street bloke would have been a tough gig to be somewhere in time leaving at midnight.

Almost immediately afterwards the Secure Community Foundation was set up by Denis Glennon's colleagues to raise money for extra resources to help the police investigation. The funds paid for a DNA analyser to scan the oral swabs given by the hundreds interviewed after the murder. They paid for a retired FBI polygrapher (lie detector expert), Ron Homer, to travel to Western Australia for a month, allowing police to eliminate a large number of suspects and focus on the remaining group who had refused the test or who had failed it.

They also paid for an FBI psychological profiler to visit for a month to give police a better understanding as to the identity of the offender, his likely traits, his background, his lifestyle. The last time the funds donated by the SCF were tallied they came to A$850,000 (£390,000). It is the largest homicide investigation conducted in Australia.

She was wearing a claddagh brooch on the single-breasted jacket of her black suit when she went with colleagues for drinks at the Continental Hotel in the upmarket suburb of Claremont on the evening of Friday, March 14th. She was slim and brighteyed, with dark brown curly hair that fell past her shoulders. There was only one week until her sister's wedding, and the night was something of an early St Patrick's Day celebration. At around midnight, she left the hotel to get a taxi, anxious not to miss an early appointment the next morning. She was 10 minutes from her home.

Denis Glennon sits in the boardroom of Western Australian Environmental Protection Authority (EPA) where he has just finished a board meeting. As managing director of Environmental Solutions International, a waste processing and disposal company, he was recently appointed to the board of the EPA.
http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/f...ss-as-serial-killer-still-roams-free-1.149685

 

[crabstick]

I have just stated there was probably some confusion between the profiler stating the culprit polishes their car a lot and chemicals on the scene.

Which contradicts the rumour I have off police that there was a chemical to the scene. But I have no source so it is not useable in this forum. Its a rumour from a top echelon copper, not out of a book, or a reference off website journalist. Or a page number in a paperback.

Based on the rumours from police, the main culprit did not just kill and dump. The main culprit took measures to avoid police procedures and detection. At the same time, there was police rumour that the main culprit let the cops know the crimes were connected. Im presuming its a man, and he wants the cops to play his game. This is all rumour from police either direct, or one person away from the police source. It is not fact, it is not really speculation, but it is not totally unsubstantiated rumour.
The main culprit took some measure to avoid DNA discovery.

Most of us put in this situation probably would have left more DNA.

<modsnip>

The Irish Times is a source as required. A source is required. People have already stated that Devils garden contains some inaccuracies.

If you have evidence otherwise, bring it on. Prove it. Provide your source. What you say, doesn't make it true. Focus on the case, and follow the rules, not the people who dearly want to find Sarah, and get the people that ruined our lives.

The interim reference you provided does not address Sutton's questions. Are you doing this on purpose?

ps: I've read the DM book and I'm absolutely certain there is no reference to cleaning chemicals found at the dump site.

ps2: The Irish Times article - has incorrect details all the way through. Completely unrelaible and should never be used as a source of truth.

 

[Ellen11]

Well said Crabstick. I recall reading your comments about it taking about a year to bring this case to court many many months ago, and knowing the typical amount of time between arrest and initial court proceedings (given the brief that would need to be prepared), time is about out for them CSK.

It will be interesting to see how tough they will prove to be when they get rounded up - thoughts of how the Birnies carried on spring to mind.

Pack animals don't tend to maintain their bravado for too long when isolated - they start sacrificing each other. Every. Single. Time.

No doubt they be real popular inside as well. Shame they won't be in general population for long - seems like an abject waste of taxpayers money to protect them.

IMO.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Well said Crabstick. I recall reading your comments about it taking about a year to bring this case to court many many months ago, and knowing the typical amount of time between arrest and initial court proceedings (given the brief that would need to be prepared), time is about out for them CSK.

It will be interesting to see how tough they will prove to be when they get rounded up - thoughts of how the Birnies carried on spring to mind.

Pack animals don't tend to maintain their bravado for too long when isolated - they start sacrificing each other. Every. Single. Time.

No doubt they be real popular inside as well. Shame they won't be in general population for long - seems like an abject waste of taxpayers money to protect them.

IMO.

Pretty sure someone has to be charged before a trial date is set - which is typically around 12 months ahead. How about we wait for an arrest first?

 

[billywhizz]

Well said Crabstick. I recall reading your comments about it taking about a year to bring this case to court many many months ago, and knowing the typical amount of time between arrest and initial court proceedings (given the brief that would need to be prepared), time is about out for them CSK.

It will be interesting to see how tough they will prove to be when they get rounded up - thoughts of how the Birnies carried on spring to mind.

Pack animals don't tend to maintain their bravado for too long when isolated - they start sacrificing each other. Every. Single. Time.

No doubt they be real popular inside as well. Shame they won't be in general population for long - seems like an abject waste of taxpayers money to protect them.

IMO.

what are you even saying? the CSK/people who are the CSK have already been arrested one year ago and are almost about to appear in court?

 

[Ellen11]

Elle
SB yeah? Not sure what this means.

I don't have a theory re TT although I do have suspicions.
Droc mentioned he worked at an abattoir prior to driving taxis.
If true would he of had access to a cattle prod or stun gun.
If true he would be experienced with killing.
I am unable to confirm if he worked at Robs Jetty or any where else.
I am also curious as to his alibi re the night he had a drunk in his cab around the same time one of the girls went missing.
He drove to a police station, went inside, came out with an officer and the drunk had gone.
Almost a perfect alibi.
Did the officer check his boot.
No theories just question.

Curious as well Elle - who or what is SB?

 

[Sutton]

I have just stated there was probably some confusion between the profiler stating the culprit polishes their car a lot and chemicals on the scene.

Which contradicts the rumour I have off police that there was a chemical to the scene. But I have no source so it is not useable in this forum. Its a rumour from a top echelon copper, not out of a book, or a reference off website journalist. Or a page number in a paperback.

Based on the rumours from police, the main culprit did not just kill and dump. The main culprit took measures to avoid police procedures and detection. At the same time, there was police rumour that the main culprit let the cops know the crimes were connected. Im presuming its a man, and he wants the cops to play his game. This is all rumour from police either direct, or one person away from the police source. It is not fact, it is not really speculation, but it is not totally unsubstantiated rumour.
The main culprit took some measure to avoid DNA discovery.

Most of us put in this situation probably would have left more DNA.

<modsnip>

The Irish Times is a source as required. A source is required. People have already stated that Devils garden contains some inaccuracies.

If you have evidence otherwise, bring it on. Prove it. Provide your source. What you say, doesn't make it true. Focus on the case, and follow the rules, not the people who dearly want to find Sarah, and get the people that ruined our lives.

I am not sure what this post means. Mostly, I'm confused by your last statement. Are you claiming Sarah's disappearance ruined your life? How? You must have been very close to her if her absence has ruined your life.

 

[crabstick]

Hardly close to any of the families. But there was an immediate change in culture. A one night stand was all of sudden verification on someone knowing who you were.

They were all our age and kids were coming home from school crying after being told from extremely reliable sources of what happened. A few students had parents high enough in the police before the case was sealed tighter. The information spread like wildfire. I know people who have been helping police. Police DNA testing people even 18 years later because someone close to me had two large officers knock on the front door unannounced, took a DNA swab and left.

I am not sure what this post means. Mostly, I'm confused by your last statement. Are you claiming Sarah's disappearance ruined your life? How? You tomust have been very close to her if her absence has ruined your life.

Please contact a moderator and get verified as a case insider immediately.

 

[Elwood_1]

It will be interesting to see how tough they will prove to be when they get rounded up - thoughts of how the Birnies carried on spring to mind.

Pack animals don't tend to maintain their bravado for too long when isolated - they start sacrificing each other. Every. Single. Time.

No doubt they be real popular inside as well. Shame they won't be in general population for long - seems like an abject waste of taxpayers money to protect them.

IMO.

"they"?

Do you have information that the rest of us are unaware of?

 

[Elwood_1]

I have always been puzzled as to why the officer that picked up the plastic lined boot guy in Highgate didn't arrest him and take him in for processing and questioning. Fingerprints, DNA, photographs, tattoos, scars, the whole thing.

Hit him with a quick Disorderly Conduct, Possession of Burglary Tools, Resisting Arrest, and you have him for at least 24 hours while you find out who he is and let Forensics run over his car.

But instead the officer let him merrily go about his plastic lined boot and cable tied business.

Another thing that puzzles me is why a WAPOL was apparently out and about on his own in a high crime area like that. You didn't often see WAPOL wandering around there on their own. Usually they had a friend with them for company.

Very odd.