Bartholemeus
Former Member
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Not sure what it is but my gut instinct tells me the CSK may have come out on top. Can never be sure though.I reckon she (JR) might have whipped his![]()
Not sure what it is but my gut instinct tells me the CSK may have come out on top. Can never be sure though.I reckon she (JR) might have whipped his![]()
Unconfirmed.is it confirmed that the fire poker is what struck her
I'm sure it's worked before as you say, but it's a low percentage play for an SK. By the time he got around to CG the media were all over it. Even though CG had just got back into Perth from an extended trip overseas, her mother did warn her and she would have realised pretty quick that a guy with a knife demanding she get in his car was the CSK and if she got it she definitely wouldn't be coming home.As for the blitz attack theory I had mentioned much earlier in these threads about an American serial killer (unable to find his name) who would abduct women simply by pulling up beside them, flashing a hunting knife and demanding they get in his car, he successfully abducted and murdered 3 women with this method, and a 4th whom managed to escape from his kill site.
Lack of blood and other evidence would be my guess.Another thing I'd love clarification on is how the police determined that the dump sites were not the kill site. was it due to lack of blood (if the women did have throats cut) or just a lack of other physical evidence at the scene or the minimal disturbance of the scene. my point being... as an example lets say the victims were strangled, then there is nothing stopping the dump site being the same as the kill site by simply using your car as the place to strangle and/or rape the victim which would stop evidence contaminating the dump site. This in turn eliminates the risks of transporting a body to and from the kill site to the dump site.
If anger was an issue the CSK would probably have hit the girls repeatedly, and potentially he may not have been an organised killer. I'd say it's more likely his main motivation is he's a rapist and gets off on domination and control.
Let's make sure we keep our eyes and minds open. I'm a fan of LW but that doesn't mean it's him. There's other worthy suspects who are in the public domain and possibly some that are not.
Bart and Co, what do you think of this line of thinking? Only reason I ask is because it played on my mind.Since joining 2 weeksor so ago. One thing has been playing on my mind. I'm interested in sensible replies, not trolls.
With the mention of the blitz attack, is there any chance the car had every door except the drivers one with the child lock mechanism in place? May tie in with that lady that escaped before the Claremont murders, by jumping out of the car. Maybe this was the CSK's way of minimizing risk and learning from a previous mistake.
Bart and Co, what do you think of this line of thinking? Only reason I ask is because it played on my mind.
And in addition with not being able to escape through the windows it could be because the window handles were disabled.
I'm not 100% sure but after some feedback etc.
[h=1]Cops overlooked serial killer clues[/h]
Grant Taylor - The West Australian on April 30, 2016, 1:00 am
VIDEO Update on Claremont serial killer inquiry
Potentially vital clues that could help identify the Claremont serial killer were overlooked by police almost 20 years ago and are being examined urgently in the hope a breakthrough can still be made.
The Weekend West has learnt that police had a secret camera set up on Bay View Terrace in Claremont on the night the killer’s third victim Ciara Glennon vanished about midnight on March 14, 1997.
The camera is believed to have captured up to eight hours of high-quality vision that clearly shows the licence plates of hundreds of vehicles moving through the area before and after her disappearance.
The vision was watched by police at the time but for unknown reasons they never checked to see who owned the vehicles in the footage, or why they were in Claremont on the night.
Nearly two decades on, detectives are working to fix that mistake, tracking down the vehicle owners to see if a killer could be among them.
The failure to check the registrations was discovered by a new team of cold-case detectives who took over the Macro inquiry last year.
Two new clues to serial killer, Dec 12, 2015:
In addition, fibers found on Jane Rimmer's naked body in 1996 that were "lost" and then rediscovered in 2011 were found to match the upholstery of a Holden VS Commodore, which was near-new at the time she was abducted...
...Fifty fibers lifted with adhesive tape from Jane Rimmer's body lay in a file until 2004 when [the Schramm Review] discovered that the fibers had never been tested against other crimes or vehicles...Detective Schramm described the discovery as exciting...
...Two years later [from 2008/2009], the untested fibers were re-discovered when the Chemistry Centre moved buildings.
Cops overlooked serial killer clues
Grant Taylor - The West Australian on April 30, 2016, 1:00 am
But the job of now identifying a suspect from the vision is likely to have been compromised by the 19-year delay.As well as tracking down the owners of the vehicles, investigators need to establish who was using the cars on the night, or who could have had access to a vehicle such as family members, partners or even employees.
Some former owners will no doubt have forgotten those details, while others may be dead or living overseas.
WA Police have refused to say why the registrations were not checked earlier or if their current inquiries were bearing fruit. But a spokesman said solving the case was still a priority for police and claimed media speculation could prove harmful to the inquiry.
The article goes on to state that tracking down the movements of each vehicles driver would be problematic as most would not remember who was driving that night if they took their parents/family/friends/borrowed vehicles because to much time has passed (19 years)
Very sad to see even more incompetence coming out. It seems bizarre that things like this werent investigating. I do wonder exactly who may have been in the area if the cops failed to investigate the registrations. Was this deliberate, do they know something sinister may have happened from one of their own and have identified that vehicle and since refused to run the registrations of all the vehicle to cover this up. Could a cop car have been roaming the area over and over and Ciara made the fatal decision to get in a Police vehicle thinking it would be safe?
Maybe it ws not a Police car, but when you see incompetence like this over and over you have to start asking questions. First the fibres go missing after being identified as being a vital clue, they identify the car (make model and series including colour Holden Commodore VS Series 1, White), they were never tested and go missing untill being tested in 2008. You have to be kidding me. How can the investigation be that incompetent when a review determined the fibres to be critical, and then they are lost immediately after
Then we find out critical footage taken from the very night in high quality, the quality good enough to identify each and ever car registration (8 hours worth) and yet they fail to bother to check who was in these cars? What is Australia's most expensive investigation of all time being spent on if they are not following up vital clues that may identify the very car the killer was driving. This whole case has some very serious questions to answer, I can understand one major stuff up when identifying the car, but with this many reviews (albeit tiny fractions of information got reviewed in pieces rather than a comprehensive case review which in itself was a sham and reeked of cover up) you would think it would have been impossible to not have followed up this lead after 19 years of spending a fortune of tax payers money getting nowhere..
The case raises more questions about its conduct than answers.
Totally disagree, I can understand your reasoning for any other night other than the night of the abduction. The very night Ciara was abducted and if they had 8 hours of high quality footage of this very night then it would be reasonable to follow up all the leads/ registration plates, especially given the high profile nature of the case, I mean its not like you get a serial killer every other day of the week running rampant, or in this case a serial rapist/killer.You have to look at this with a realistic perspective. The footage was reviewed at the time and priority vehicle/s were identified and followed up, this lead to LW being identified as a POI. As far as I'm aware his vehicle was the only one identified doing laps of Claremont. The key times were between midnight and 2am, what's the point in reviewing 8 hours of footage? Maybe it cold be widened to 2200 to 0200 just to make sure but reviewing 8 hours of footage and identifying all vehicles, owners and drivers is a huge amount of police work, more then someone outside of the police line of work would realise.
At best, this footage could provide a POI vehicle that warranted further surveillance, which is what occurred with LW. But I think the CSK worked the fringes of Claremont, preying on victims that strayed from Claremont alone. It depends where this camera was positioned as to how useful it may / may not be.
This is way beyond my understanding of the psychology of FUI's/SK's.Bart, I wonder about that domination and control thing. You would think that if our boy was really into that he would want to take the time to sit back and have a bit of fun with it. Did you ever see Law Abiding Citizen? IMHO anyone who had built up that much of a head of steam would want to make the most of his opportunities, and REALLY get into it. But he seems to have made a fast snatch, kill, and disposal. There wouldn't be a lot of gratification in that considering the effort and risk that went into it. But maybe he has a really short fuse, and 30 seconds was all he needed/could manage. No candles and champagne for these dates.
Totally disagree, I can understand your reasoning for any other night other than the night of the abduction. The very night Ciara was abducted and if they had 8 hours of high quality footage of this very night then it would be reasonable to follow up all the leads/ registration plates, especially given the high profile nature of the case, I mean its not like you get a serial killer every other day of the week running rampant, or in this case a serial rapist/killer.
I would have investigators dot down the number plates of every single vehicle, run each and everyone through the database, then go to each and every house and ask the car owner if he was driving the night of Ciara's disappearance and the reason for being in the area. I would file this all on record just incase a name came up later on in the investigation and this same person was also in the area on the night of the disappearance. This is not rocket science, just good investigative work. What else do you spend all the money on, this case is Australia's most expensive investigation, what do they use that money for? obviously not following up one of the most critical leads they had.
Can you confirm Lane Williams was caught on camera on the night of Ciara's disappearance? I thought he was observed in the area during the other random nights? I have never heard any suggestion he was in Claremont when any of the girls disappeared so this is news to be, can you please confirm how you know this? selectively investigating particular cars from the footage taken during Ciara's disappearance would be totally idiotic. How would you profile the vehicles from looking at them, a number of POI's could have been narrowed down later on if all owners and drivers were identified and kept in a file. This was a high profile case and I doubt the resources you expect to have been used to gather this information would have been anywhere near the 20 years they have wasted on this case without a resolution, despite all the corruption.
This is a real issue for me. It just doesn't seem conceivable that they could lose high priority evidence twice.So in 2004 they knew the fibers may spark a breakthrough, these fibers found on Jane in 1996 were lost around this time then found again in 2004. The Scramm reviews say the evidence will lead to a break though. They are then lost and found again in 2011, then finally tested and that determined the Make/colour/type of vehicle (Holden Commodore Series 1 , White), wow! How could that possibly be!
What do you mean? This was the highest priority case of the last 20 years and at the time had enormous publicity and resources thrown behind it. This was as big a case as you will ever get. Do you honestly think after having this evidence for a whole 19 years that its not inconceivable to think the Police were nothing but totally incompetent not to investigate this more thoroughly. They put so much money and resources into this they could have easily had a few officers working on this avenue for a moderate period of time (6 Months should be more than enough time). All you need to do is identify a time line (I agree the whole 8 hrs is not 100% necessary) however if they didn't need 8 hrs of footage then why record for the FULL 8 HRS, why not just record for 4 hrs if the 8 hr timeline is not significant. Again you are not making complete sense here when determining 4 hrs being adequate, The police obviously had some reason to record for 8 hrs! and then once you have agreed on the time line to take the registrations then take a record of each number, run each number through the database, identify vehicle owner, go to each owner ask why they were in Claremont and whether they were driving, if they were seek evidence, eg. a receipt, or a credit card statement, a bank statement witness etc etc. If they arent the vehicle owner who was driving then follow up and investigate who was driving that night, more than likely the owner would know who drove their car/ or had access, then investigate and query that driver. Single out any suspicious characters and investigate further. Something to do with that individual might come up down the track and woalla, you have a critical lead and POI/suspect.This is why you aren't a Police officer and have no idea of the amount of Police work it would involve. It's not a matter of simply jotting down registration numbers, running them through a database and asking them if they are were driving their car that night. You could potentially get 800 odd rego numbers and what do you want to do, investigative every single person? This is madness and idiotic, the footage was already reviewed and priority vehicles would have been selected and followed up.
Suggesting that 8 hours of footage and hundreds of cars and people be investigated with nothing further to go on than asking "where you in Claremont and why?" is just dumb. Macro at it's height, had about 80-90 detectives, and you won't to consume every single one of them following up car regos? There's competing priorities and a magnitude of other leads that were being followed up at the same time.
The correct and only response is to review the key period before CG's abduction, around 2200 to 0200 and obtain registration plates in that period that drove past the camera more then once. Then follow up those vehicles/people as a priority. There's no point in reviewing footage prior to even CG arriving in Claremont for drinks after work, lol.