Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #5

[Bartholemeus]

Police are DNA testing people in the hotel on the nights. You cant have a source for that, but I have friends who have been DNA tested. Actually, police knocked on their front door randomly and asked for a DNA sample there and then. I don't have a source, but it will come out in the wash what I am saying is true.
How do you even have a source for that?

What did a DNA test cost in 1990? Ouch!

So spending that kind of dosh if you don't have DNA is a bit of a waste if they didnt have DNA. They did DNA a couple hundred taxi drivers. That is a lot of money if you don't have DNA.

They have the Karrakatta victim who ran to a hospital. Who said they pull out the rape kit straight away? They have connected the two cases.

1. It's not a waste of time and money at all. There's almost no doubt that they didn't have a DNA profile in the first 10 years or so. There's a couple of good reasons to collect DNA even if they don't have a profile; a) In case through tech advances a profile becomes available, and b) to make POIs think they have a sample

2. No one said they had a rape kit straight away. This was speculated in a discussion. She ran to a hospital. It's likely they took samples.

3. It's not definite the cases are connected. Again - this is reported by media. The first report claimed "forensic link", the second "DNA link". The whole blitz attack theory is also media driven and potentially an extrapolation of the Karra link.

 

[JackHigh]

Complete opposite, knows where the camera is. Flaunts with police by not showing his face.
The police are identifying everyone inside the pub, you know that right.

Show us another occasion when the CSK purposely flaunted with Police.

I dont think there is any, IMO, i dont think he aims to create a riddle, just gets his kicks and moves on.

If there is anything close to flaunting in this case, i dont think it was by MM...

 

[Sutton]

1. You have on many occasions claimed police have DNA and certain people have been ruled out
2. These people have not been ruled out publicly. A media outlet cannot rule people out.













There's more but I'm not going to bother finding them.

You posted the comment I made on the day the DNA article was published.

Media published that police have DNA. They published Karrakatta is linked. They published fibers found on Jane were from a Holden Commodore. Did the police dispute any of that? No.

Media published police did not properly investigate surveillance footage. Did police dispute that? Yes. Police have no problem disputing false info.

You can believe whatever you want to believe. If you want to wait until police issue a supporting statement, then go right ahead. I believe the info that has been published on DNA is true. And I don't have to state that every time I reference DNA. You don't get to decide what is fact.

 

[crabstick]

1. It's not a waste of time and money at all. There's almost no doubt that they didn't have a DNA profile in the first 10 years or so. There's a couple of good reasons to collect DNA even if they don't have a profile; a) In case through tech advances a profile becomes available, and b) to make POIs think they have a sample

2. No one said they had a rape kit straight away. This was speculated in a discussion. She ran to a hospital. It's likely they took samples.

3. It's not definite the cases are connected. Again - this is reported by media. The first report claimed "forensic link", the second "DNA link". The whole blitz attack theory is also media driven and potentially an extrapolation of the Karra link.

Bart, "DNA was well known by police back then but apart from that my understanding is that even before DNA was around standard evidence collecting procedures allowed DNA to be preserved.

The only reason they wouldn't have DNA is police treating the rape with a complete lack of respect in collecting evidence or they lost the evidence.

So if they have the Karakatta DNA then they would have compared it to LW, PW, SR and you'd think Judoman years ago. If it's true they have linked Karakatta to the CSK through some sort of forensic evidence then they have to rule all these suspects out.

There was an unconfirmed rumour about a suspect who worked for Telecom (Now Telstra) who had unlogged access to Telecom vehicles, was reported to be offering girls lifts in the area and had been frequenting Conti and Club.

I wonder if this guy has been ruled out (if he exists). Certainly had access to telephone cable. "

Forensic examination
A forensic examination can be undertaken by the SARC doctor. This is an important way of collecting evidence of a sexual assault to be used in future court proceedings if you report the assault to the police. The aim of the examination is to collect and document evidence. It may include:

Taking a history of the assault
Documenting your general health
Collecting samples of physical evidence such as taking swabs for DNA
Taking photographs of injuries or bruises (photographs are not taken of the genital area)
Collecting clothing worn when the assault occurred
Writing a medico-legal report on your physical condition

In most cases a forensic examination is undertaken within hours of SARC being contacted. Although DNA can still be found 7-10 days after an assault, the sooner you come to SARC the better, as this will enable collection of the best evidence.

In regional areas, SARC forensic kits are used by doctors or specially trained nurses to collect forensic evidence on your behalf.

http://www.kemh.health.wa.gov.au/ser...c/have_you.htm

5chars

 

[Bartholemeus]

You posted the comment I made on the day the DNA article was published.

Media published that police have DNA. They published Karrakatta is linked. They published fibers found on Jane were from a Holden Commodore. Did the police dispute any of that? No.

Media published police did not properly investigate surveillance footage. Did police dispute that? Yes. Police have no problem disputing false info.

You can believe whatever you want to believe. If you want to wait until police issue a supporting statement, then go right ahead. I believe the info that has been published on DNA is true. And I don't have to state that every time I reference DNA. You don't get to decide what is fact.

1. I posted several comments that you made over a period of time. There are more. Don't make me go and find them.

2. There's a difference between disputing potential case details and an article that claims WAPOL are incompetent. They can't be compared.

3. I don't have a problem if you believe there to be DNA. It's a totally reasonable school of thought. But you have continuously posted it as fact. There is only one occasion where you have conceded it's just your opinion and that it's possible that they don't have DNA but that's only when I questioned you about it. On that occasion you also claimed you had never made hard claims. I knew this not to be true but I let it slide. But you did it again and I decided not to let it slide.

4. I don't decide what is fact - this is what you have tried to do and since you keep doing it decided to call you on it. I have maintained nothing other than the stance that we don't know what the facts are yet re DNA.

 

[crabstick]

Yeah, you are right. There is no media source to support that.

Without a media or police source, not that police are going to come out with operational information stating, yeah, we know these crimes are connected because the perpetrator has left clues for us to connect the crimes. Well have to wait for a trial that will never happen because it is so high profile, it will never be able to proceed, especially with those POIs cleared of not having DNA on the crime scene connected with the Karrakatta rape.

Unfortunately, without a source, no matter how reliable info it maybe, cant put it in here, because it is not considered reliable.

Would a hospital not do rape testing on a girl who runs to the hospital doors naked? Straight from the crime scene?

Remember, police have motive. That must give police reasonable clue to who it may be.

Show us another occasion when the CSK purposely flaunted with Police.

I dont think there is any, IMO, i dont think he aims to create a riddle, just gets his kicks and moves on.

If there is anything close to flaunting in this case, i dont think it was by MM...

 

[crabstick]

We had David and Catherine Birnie travel Stirling highway picking up girls. A man and woman team serial torturing over days and killing. Without one girl escaping,we probably wouldn't have known who they were. What an example.

 

[crabstick]

How do you make a fake taxi? You need a roof sign, some door signs, maybe some fake taxi plates, if fake plates were policed ever

Oh, and you need a car. What happens if you lose your taxi licence, but you own a cab? Were taxi roof lights laying around the local panel beaters?

 

[Sutton]

1. I posted several comments that you made over a period of time. There are more. Don't make me go and find them.

Snipped. Don't make you??? Go ahead. That is an odd way to talk to someone.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Snipped. Don't make you??? Go ahead. That is an odd way to talk to someone.

It's odd to claim you didn't say something that you said multiple times and even odder to still deny it after they have been reposted.

 

[CSK?]

So aside from the known POI's is there anyone out there that has their own POI whom you would like to share about with why you think so. As per forum rules you're more than welcome to refer to them by initials or leaving the name out entirely.

Aside from SD I had another semi fit for MAP, but I'm unable to confirm if he was in Perth at the time or back in England, he is from an English family, is 2nd or 3rd dan judo, lived in Perth and is roughly the right age give or take a year. Still digging to see if he was in Perth at the time though, more than likely it is not him but certainly worth looking into.

 

[papertrail]

I think, if the perpetrator was Dorrough, that he simply cased the Claremont area out. The April Davey inquest media reports stated that Dorrough's Navy mates considered that Dorrough thought he was a 'lady's man' and I think the type of girl hanging out in Claremont would have suited his ego. Perhaps he had a buddy that lived in the area. Perhaps Dorrough had a masterplan in mind and Claremont was the only clubbing/night 'hot' spot that fitted that masterplan; perhaps the disposal site degrees actually meant something to him or were critical to his masterplan. I say this keeping in my mind that if one is to draw a line between the Jane Rimmer and Ciara Glennon disposal sites it crosses a specific area in Claremont. The Rimmer disposal site is very close to Garden Island - a Navy base. I believe the Karrakatta Cemetery records show that Dorrough's mother died on 23/10/2013 and suburb is listed as Armadale. His father died on 24/4/2016 and suburb is listed as Wattle Grove; this death was at the time the Davey inquest finalized - it would be a terrible tragedy if the father's death was not of natural causes.

 

[papertrail]

Lol @ those who think MM is the CSK...

Guy takes 3 women and barely leaves a trace but isnt smart enough to keep away from CCTV moments before committing an abduction.

Makes for good entertainment on an otherwise ordinary day, thats it.

Because he put himself in the area and on cctv as part of his game plan with police. Perhaps, if it is Dorrough he applied to join WA Police and was rejected.

 

[papertrail]

Do you know what's really annoying?

You have consistently claimed (as fact) that Macro have DNA. You also consistently claim LW has been ruled out but Judoman hasn't. Then when the above article came out you made a smug post about you being right and others being wrong.

Why don't we list the facts and if you have a problem with them, let's get to the bottom of it now rather than you just say nothing and every now and then pipe up with "LW has been ruled out" or "Police have DNA";

1. We don't know for sure if they have DNA. Police have never confirmed. When you claim they definitely have DNA (based on a newspaper article), you are wrong regardless if they actually have DNA. You actually don't know.
2. We don't know if LW has been ruled out. The above article is based on Macro having DNA. The article doesn't have a source that police have DNA.
3. If LW has been ruled out then it's likely (but not definite) that Judoman has also been ruled out. You seem to have conveniently taken the view that because Judoman is not named in that article then he hasn't been ruled out. The actual truth is Judoman has never been named as a suspect while all the others have. They are not going to name someone who isn't a public suspect.


So regardless if it turns out they have had DNA for 8 years, you are still wrong and you have no place to keep claiming your opinion as fact.

Don't you mean 'martial arts practitioner' when you stated "You also consistently claim LW has been ruled out but Judoman hasn't" ?

 

[papertrail]

If Dorrough was the CSK I`d say he would have left that in the note before he went to the Lone Star shooting gallery.

Is MM wearing a wig? Cause the hair looks all over the show. We should rename him Daniel Boone perhaps.

Not necessarily so that he would admit to which murder victims he was responsible for at all. Keeping in my mind that he was obviously attached to a partner as the Davey inquest media reports stated that Dorrough had left his laptop in the envelope with his note so this may be the reason he did not name his victims as the Claremont girls, saving his partner from this terrible knowledge. Nothing is known about his partner but it is known (through the Davey inquest reports) that Dorrough was or had converted to Jehovah Witness so perhaps his partner was a follower too.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Because he put himself in the area and on cctv as part of his game plan with police. Perhaps, if it is Dorrough he applied to join WA Police and was rejected.

MM had probably been to a crack house before he walked past Conti.

 

[papertrail]

Could blonde haired guy be MM or MW
Not ruling out wigs or hair dye.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Perhaps the Karrakatta / Glennon DNA link is through hair. Hair dye can destroy parts but not all of the DNA chain; that could be the reason they are unable to match the DNA (perfectly) with a suspect or POI. Also some people's hair is naturally 'degraded' and tests will not be able to develop a full DNA profile.
http://www.forensicmag.com/article/2013/04/challenges-dna-testing-and-forensic-analysis-hair-samples

 

[papertrail]

I thought he was attractive too but didn't want to say, and the photos in the media are probably mug shots so not the most flattering. Probably a lot of women didn't turn him down. Someone should start a thread about dorrough, I'm really intrigued by the fact he found it hard to live with the guilt so much so that he ended his own life. It seems his killing spree (including attempted murder by running over with his car) happened around the turn of the century, except the one Unknown murder which very well could have been during those dark years for him. He seems to have changed his ways rather than escalating.
its shocking that he was connected to 2 murders and convicted of attempted murder, and only did a small amount of jail time. (Sentenced to 5 years but only served 1). I don't think he is the CSK personally due to the fact it's unlikely that he wasn't the killer of Sarah lee Davey and Rachel Campbell so that only leaves One more victim.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/29862071/inside-the-dark-twisted-mind-of-a-serial-killer/

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...h/news-story/5db2ff7d9fb88ad450c7711d90050452

In Dorrough's mind he wasn't responsible for Campbell's murder because he was NOT convicted of that murder at trial. They never got Dorrough to trial over the Davey murder so in his mind (again) he was not her murderer. You are only a murder when convicted of such a heinous crime. Given the circumstances of what occurred on the Davey night, he may have also convinced himself that her death was an accident not murder. So that leaves 3 girls - Claremont girls. But I think he is reponsible for a couple more.

 

[Peter Kurten]

So aside from the known POI's is there anyone out there that has their own POI whom you would like to share about with why you think so. As per forum rules you're more than welcome to refer to them by initials or leaving the name out entirely.

Aside from SD I had another semi fit for MAP, but I'm unable to confirm if he was in Perth at the time or back in England, he is from an English family, is 2nd or 3rd dan judo, lived in Perth and is roughly the right age give or take a year. Still digging to see if he was in Perth at the time though, more than likely it is not him but certainly worth looking into.

Hi CSK,

I've got around 15 to 20 strong POI's that I am gradually trying to exclude by going through their history, personal circumstances and so on (thank god for the internet). Instead of going through each them by initials, if you ask me about a particular category of the case I can probably narrow it down. The most salient aspects/projects I've got are: Rogue Taxi, Screen Printing, HSHS, Telstra, Hitch-hiking(LWHP), Friends/Acquaintances, Club/hotel attendees, Claremont Employees, White VS II + van owners. I use specialised software to organise my information on this case.

Regards,

P

 

[papertrail]

In a post a couple pages back, it says JR was talking to blond hair guy in pub

In actual fact the other witness that said he observed Sarah the night before she disappeared, had observed her at 160 Mill Point Road which I believe was her address. She was standing in the foyer with a man described as having short dark wavy hair; facial features pointed. To me that description matches Dorrough. I have posted the newspaper article re this witness sighting previously.

Does anyone know when exactly Ciara Glennon desparted Western Australia in 1996? She also lived in South Perth prior to going overseas and I have considered that she (may have) knew Dorrough through their joint interest - scuba diving. On Dorrough's arrest in Perth in 2009 (extradited to NSW for trial re Campbell's murder) he was arrested at his employer's premise in Mosman Park and newspaper reports stated he was a 'diving instructor'. Romuald Zak also had a connected to diving - his stepfather was a scuba diving instructor.