Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #6

[Sutton]

Quick link to info about D masters is on missing&murdered sally greenham comments section . Can't link it

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David Masters has been incarcerated since June 1991, so he's ruled out for the CSK assaults. He might be good for Sally Greenham, though. I'm not sure if that's what you're suggesting. I would be interested to read details about her disappearance.

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[Mo Joe]

If they do know the identity of the CSK, the longer they procrastinate over an arrest, the more chance of his name being made public. MOO

 

[Bartholemeus]

Hello does anyone know about this id kit pic ?

Psychics are essentially frauds. They may trick themselves into thinking they are providing comfort and closure to their victims to justify the means but they know too well that they're shysters. It's nothing but a magic trick used to transport money from their victims to themselves. Not one "psychic" has been able to prove their power in scientifically controlled environment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Million_Dollar_Paranormal_Challenge

Psychics use a number of techniques to trick their victims into thinking these powers are real. AT the top end you have your John Edwards types who have a massive budget to find this information through other means than psychic powers (I suspect PI's who are trained to target his audience before they come on the show and do a full inspection into their lives). As you move down the hierarchy the methods get less sophisticated.

About 15 years ago there was a show called Sensing Murder hosted by Rebecca Gibney. It reviewed Australia cold case murders with a bunch of Aussie psychics (mostly the same ones who came up with that identikit). The stuff they came up with seemed very impressive. They were leading Gibney to murder scenes and dump sites. The TV show had us believe that this bunch of frauds/psychics read the case files and then lead them to the murder/dump sites without peviously knowing where they were. Absolute BS. They would have had that info in the case files and I suspect police worked with them closely to get out the information they wanted to get out.

So most likely the same thing has happened with the CSK identikit. Either they saw that identikit lifted from Sunday Night, or they had a source to describe a suspect. They would have had some sort of intelligence and filled in the gaps.

So while these guys are frauds, it's possible that the identikit holds some sort of relevance.

 

[Mo Joe]

Psychics are essentially frauds. They may trick themselves into thinking they are providing comfort and closure to their victims to justify the means but they know too well that they're shysters. It's nothing but a magic trick used to transport money from their victims to themselves. Not one "psychic" has been able to prove their power in scientifically controlled environment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Million_Dollar_Paranormal_Challenge

Psychics use a number of techniques to trick their victims into thinking these powers are real. AT the top end you have your John Edwards types who have a massive budget to find this information through other means than psychic powers (I suspect PI's who are trained to target his audience before they come on the show and do a full inspection into their lives). As you move down the hierarchy the methods get less sophisticated.

About 15 years ago there was a show called Sensing Murder hosted by Rebecca Gibney. It reviewed Australia cold case murders with a bunch of Aussie psychics (mostly the same ones who came up with that identikit). The stuff they came up with seemed very impressive. They were leading Gibney to murder scenes and dump sites. The TV show had us believe that this bunch of frauds/psychics read the case files and then lead them to the murder/dump sites without peviously knowing where they were. Absolute BS. They would have had that info in the case files and I suspect police worked with them closely to get out the information they wanted to get out.

So most likely the same thing has happened with the CSK identikit. Either they saw that identikit lifted from Sunday Night, or they had a source to describe a suspect. They would have had some sort of intelligence and filled in the gaps.

So while these guys are frauds, it's possible that the identikit holds some sort of relevance.

I'd like to see an identikit made with an average head, hair, ears, nose, mouth, eyes and chin.

 

[Bartholemeus]

If they do know the identity of the CSK, the longer they procrastinate over an arrest, the more chance of his name being made public. MOO

I think we can assume they wouldn't be procrastinating for no good reason. They may know who it is but don't have enough to convict. There's recently been a case where a guy (Matthew Levenson I think) was murdered about 10 years ago. He was seen leaving a night club with his BF. He disappeared. His BF was seen in Bunnings buying body disposal kit the next day. Everyone knows he most likely did it but there's not enough evidence in court to convict. He got not guilty and in the last two weeks traded the location of the body for indemnity.

I guess police don't want to let someone off the hook (assuming they know who it is).

So let's assume they know who it is;

1. Let's say it's LW, PW, SR or one of the outed POIs. There's no reason to out them and the chances of ever finding the smoking gun are thin. The only way one of these guys will be out as the main POI is through an inquest/inquiry. If it's one of these guys they would have shut up shop (maybe disposed of the momentos, stopped killing people etc)

2. Let's say it's MAP (whoever that may be) or the "known sexual perver". At the risk of him shutting up shop, what else do they have to lose by putting some public pressure on him?

3. Let's say it's someone else. They pretty much know he's the CSK but know they won't be able to prove it. Again, what do they have to lose by asserting some pressure?


There's been a lot of activity in the last 2 years in the media (namely The Post). I suspect this how Macro have chosen to communicate with the public (dettached). I think it's Stanbury having one last crack at shaking the tree and either leaking correct or incorrect (or somewhere in between) information to see if he can break the case.

Now it seems dead. They haven't even bothered to increase the reward money (it pales in comparison to the rewards offered for much lower profile cases).

 

[Mo Joe]

Point 3. Would it be their plan to follow him around until he dies? That's not pressure to a sociopath. He would be laughing at them. Besides, how does that help Don Spiers or Jenny Rimmer? It's not a game to the parents. Why should they have to wait and see? What time frame would the Police have on getting the evidence needed to prove the case?

 

[88mph]

I think we can assume they wouldn't be procrastinating for no good reason. They may know who it is but don't have enough to convict. There's recently been a case where a guy (Matthew Levenson I think) was murdered about 10 years ago. He was seen leaving a night club with his BF. He disappeared. His BF was seen in Bunnings buying body disposal kit the next day. Everyone knows he most likely did it but there's not enough evidence in court to convict. He got not guilty and in the last two weeks traded the location of the body for indemnity.

I guess police don't want to let someone off the hook (assuming they know who it is).

So let's assume they know who it is;

1. Let's say it's LW, PW, SR or one of the outed POIs. There's no reason to out them and the chances of ever finding the smoking gun are thin. The only way one of these guys will be out as the main POI is through an inquest/inquiry. If it's one of these guys they would have shut up shop (maybe disposed of the momentos, stopped killing people etc)

2. Let's say it's MAP (whoever that may be) or the "known sexual perver". At the risk of him shutting up shop, what else do they have to lose by putting some public pressure on him?

3. Let's say it's someone else. They pretty much know he's the CSK but know they won't be able to prove it. Again, what do they have to lose by asserting some pressure?


There's been a lot of activity in the last 2 years in the media (namely The Post). I suspect this how Macro have chosen to communicate with the public (dettached). I think it's Stanbury having one last crack at shaking the tree and either leaking correct or incorrect (or somewhere in between) information to see if he can break the case.

Now it seems dead. They haven't even bothered to increase the reward money (it pales in comparison to the rewards offered for much lower profile cases).

The reward. Needs to be bumped to a million.

That will shake the tree.


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[88mph]

Point 3. Would it be their plan to follow him around until he dies? That's not pressure to a sociopath. He would be laughing at them. Besides, how does that help Don Spiers or Jenny Rimmer? It's not a game to the parents. Why should they have to wait and see? What time frame would the Police have on getting the evidence needed to prove the case?

Timeframe. It would be hard to justify keeping the case open unless they had a strong POI.

Mark McGowan has suggested he would push for an inquest if he's elected premier inn March 2017.


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[Bartholemeus]

Point 3. Would it be their plan to follow him around until he dies? That's not pressure to a sociopath. He would be laughing at them. Besides, how does that help Don Spiers or Jenny Rimmer? It's not a game to the parents. Why should they have to wait and see? What time frame would the Police have on getting the evidence needed to prove the case?

I wouldn't think so but who knows what's going on internally?

Maybe that person isn't aware they are in the cross hairs? They might be reasoning they don't want this guy to close up shop - hide souvenirs and any evidence. But you'd think by now any high ranked POI is aware he's being looked at closely and any evidence has been disposed off (or hidden on crown land and not accessed).

Considering the Beaumont Children - all suspects have pretty much been outed. Every time there is a new suspect he's splashed all over the paper. One guy's name was suppressed but that's all that was suppressed - the rest of the details were splashed on the front page. These new leads and fresh faces were covered by all media rather than just one.

So if there's a suspect we don't know about, then why hasn't it hit the media? The name doesn't have to be released.

If the case is at a dead end then why not a new public appeal and an increase of the reward from a meagre $250k to say $1m? Whilst I don't, nor probably police believe an increase in reward will make a difference you never know. It's a chance to bring the case up again and if it is dead, then you'd think Macro need whatever lead they can. Even if it will induce "rubbish" leads, a case like this might just be solved by one seemingly innocuous lead.

There's almost no chance that Stanbury was in the middle of a hot lead or hot suspect that hadn't been investigated as far as it could, otherwise he wouldn't have moved on. He took whatever he had to as far as he could whether that be a suspect or a stone dead case.

I think if they're sitting on someone and can't find the smoking gun then it's time for an inquest.

 

[Mo Joe]

I wouldn't think so but who knows what's going on internally?

Maybe that person isn't aware they are in the cross hairs? They might be reasoning they don't want this guy to close up shop - hide souvenirs and any evidence. But you'd think by now any high ranked POI is aware he's being looked at closely and any evidence has been disposed off (or hidden on crown land and not accessed).

Considering the Beaumont Children - all suspects have pretty much been outed. Every time there is a new suspect he's splashed all over the paper. One guy's name was suppressed but that's all that was suppressed - the rest of the details were splashed on the front page. These new leads and fresh faces were covered by all media rather than just one.

So if there's a suspect we don't know about, then why hasn't it hit the media? The name doesn't have to be released.

If the case is at a dead end then why not a new public appeal and an increase of the reward from a meagre $250k to say $1m? Whilst I don't, nor probably police believe an increase in reward will make a difference you never know. It's a chance to bring the case up again and if it is dead, then you'd think Macro need whatever lead they can. Even if it will induce "rubbish" leads, a case like this might just be solved by one seemingly innocuous lead.

There's almost no chance that Stanbury was in the middle of a hot lead or hot suspect that hadn't been investigated as far as it could, otherwise he wouldn't have moved on. He took whatever he had to as far as he could whether that be a suspect or a stone dead case.

I think if they're sitting on someone and can't find the smoking gun then it's time for an inquest.

You seem to have a high opinion of Stanbury? I imagine it's possible he may have made the odd mistake? IIRC I heard that he may have claimed that police did not have the time to follow CSK talk on the internet? I find that difficult to believe, and rather stupid if true? MOO.

 

[Bartholemeus]

You seem to have a high opinion of Stanbury? I imagine it's possible he may have made the odd mistake? IIRC I heard that he may have claimed that police did not have the time to follow CSK talk on the internet? I find that difficult to believe, and rather stupid if true? MOO.

I don't really know anything about him other than he headed up Macro for a while and it appeared he chased down every lead he could and tried a few different things to solve the case.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/29709275/top-cop-taken-off-cold-case/#page1

He was on the case from 2008 - 2015. He started with the CIA doco which coincided with the release of MM footage and some extra snippets of info such as CG was seen talking to the occupant'/s of a light coloured car. In the last two years of JS's tenure, Bret Christian from The Post published a lot of unknown information. The information stopped at roughly the same time JS moved on. It could be a coincidence but it's certainly possible JS wanted to release info (true or untrue) through a 3rd party thereby keeping WAPOL at an arm's length. There's many obvious reasons to do this.

As for mistakes - without a doubt but as to specifics I wouldn't know so won't speculate (much). It's possible the leaking of the alleged failure to investigate number plates from the CCTV was leaked by an internal rival aimed at undermining JS. I've had professional dealing with Govt. Depts. and have seen first hand just how incompetent and inefficient they are so it's likely mistakes were made all through this.

With regards to following threads on the internet, I would be surprised if they didn't follow this thread and BF thread. There's a lot of stuff written about this case all over the internet but the two aforementioned threads are stand outs. I'd half expect them to ask the owners of each for the IP of every user who posts and every user who browses. I have no doubt the CSK has done some reading.

Put yourself in Stanbury's shoes

One of 2 things happen;

a) In 2011 DNA is discovered and with it a link to KK and this doesn't match any of the POIs

b) You don't have DNA, you've run down every lead and come to the conclusion your original bunny is still your best bunny (LW, MAP or whoever)

So what would you most likely do;

a) You have DNA, but no viable POI and you're standing there with your thumb tack in your hands

- Ask every possible POI for DNA
- Revisit KK crime and other local sex attacks
- Raise the reward to $1m to attract fresh leads as soon as you have run out of fresh material in hope of a break. The more leads you have, the more DNA comparisons you can make.
- Go public in hope of attracting fresh leads. The earlier sex attacks could be a focus. The Commodore could be a focus. The more leads you have, the more DNA comparisons you can make.

b) You don't have DNA, but you've just spent 5 years chasing down every lead and your original POI (either from 2004 or 2008 or whenever) is still #1

- You've obviously tried everything and have been unable to get enough evidence for a conviction
- So you run and operation in view of trying to trap the CSK. Maybe release false information through the press. Maybe use a honeypot to try get him to confess. Maybe somehow use an undercover to get close to him and gain his trust. Monitor his internet. Is he interested in certain fetishes? Is he used the dark web or vpn to mask what he is looking at? Can you create an online group interested in that sort of stuff and have someone try to gain his trust?



I'm open to all scenarios but I just find Macro's action strange if they do in fact have DNA. Surely you have to have some sort of funnel to attract POIs?

 

[Mo Joe]

I don't really know anything about him other than he headed up Macro for a while and it appeared he chased down every lead he could and tried a few different things to solve the case.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/29709275/top-cop-taken-off-cold-case/#page1

He was on the case from 2008 - 2015. He started with the CIA doco which coincided with the release of MM footage and some extra snippets of info such as CG was seen talking to the occupant'/s of a light coloured car. In the last two years of JS's tenure, Bret Christian from The Post published a lot of unknown information. The information stopped at roughly the same time JS moved on. It could be a coincidence but it's certainly possible JS wanted to release info (true or untrue) through a 3rd party thereby keeping WAPOL at an arm's length. There's many obvious reasons to do this.

As for mistakes - without a doubt but as to specifics I wouldn't know so won't speculate (much). It's possible the leaking of the alleged failure to investigate number plates from the CCTV was leaked by an internal rival aimed at undermining JS. I've had professional dealing with Govt. Depts. and have seen first hand just how incompetent and inefficient they are so it's likely mistakes were made all through this.

With regards to following threads on the internet, I would be surprised if they didn't follow this thread and BF thread. There's a lot of stuff written about this case all over the internet but the two aforementioned threads are stand outs. I'd half expect them to ask the owners of each for the IP of every user who posts and every user who browses. I have no doubt the CSK has done some reading.

Put yourself in Stanbury's shoes

One of 2 things happen;

a) In 2011 DNA is discovered and with it a link to KK and this doesn't match any of the POIs

b) You don't have DNA, you've run down every lead and come to the conclusion your original bunny is still your best bunny (LW, MAP or whoever)

So what would you most likely do;

a) You have DNA, but no viable POI and you're standing there with your thumb tack in your hands

- Ask every possible POI for DNA
- Revisit KK crime and other local sex attacks
- Raise the reward to $1m to attract fresh leads as soon as you have run out of fresh material in hope of a break. The more leads you have, the more DNA comparisons you can make.
- Go public in hope of attracting fresh leads. The earlier sex attacks could be a focus. The Commodore could be a focus. The more leads you have, the more DNA comparisons you can make.

b) You don't have DNA, but you've just spent 5 years chasing down every lead and your original POI (either from 2004 or 2008 or whenever) is still #1

- You've obviously tried everything and have been unable to get enough evidence for a conviction
- So you run and operation in view of trying to trap the CSK. Maybe release false information through the press. Maybe use a honeypot to try get him to confess. Maybe somehow use an undercover to get close to him and gain his trust. Monitor his internet. Is he interested in certain fetishes? Is he used the dark web or vpn to mask what he is looking at? Can you create an online group interested in that sort of stuff and have someone try to gain his trust?



I'm open to all scenarios but I just find Macro's action strange if they do in fact have DNA. Surely you have to have some sort of funnel to attract POIs?

IIRC some of that "unknown" information was information that had been discussed on the internet. Therefore, it was "known" to some people. Why aren't the Police releasing more "known" information? MOO.

 

[MyLeftFoot]

I don't really know anything about him other than he headed up Macro for a while and it appeared he chased down every lead he could and tried a few different things to solve the case.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/29709275/top-cop-taken-off-cold-case/#page1

He was on the case from 2008 - 2015. He started with the CIA doco which coincided with the release of MM footage and some extra snippets of info such as CG was seen talking to the occupant'/s of a light coloured car. In the last two years of JS's tenure, Bret Christian from The Post published a lot of unknown information. The information stopped at roughly the same time JS moved on. It could be a coincidence but it's certainly possible JS wanted to release info (true or untrue) through a 3rd party thereby keeping WAPOL at an arm's length. There's many obvious reasons to do this.

As for mistakes - without a doubt but as to specifics I wouldn't know so won't speculate (much). It's possible the leaking of the alleged failure to investigate number plates from the CCTV was leaked by an internal rival aimed at undermining JS. I've had professional dealing with Govt. Depts. and have seen first hand just how incompetent and inefficient they are so it's likely mistakes were made all through this.

With regards to following threads on the internet, I would be surprised if they didn't follow this thread and BF thread. There's a lot of stuff written about this case all over the internet but the two aforementioned threads are stand outs. I'd half expect them to ask the owners of each for the IP of every user who posts and every user who browses. I have no doubt the CSK has done some reading.

Put yourself in Stanbury's shoes

One of 2 things happen;

a) In 2011 DNA is discovered and with it a link to KK and this doesn't match any of the POIs

b) You don't have DNA, you've run down every lead and come to the conclusion your original bunny is still your best bunny (LW, MAP or whoever)

So what would you most likely do;

a) You have DNA, but no viable POI and you're standing there with your thumb tack in your hands

- Ask every possible POI for DNA
- Revisit KK crime and other local sex attacks
- Raise the reward to $1m to attract fresh leads as soon as you have run out of fresh material in hope of a break. The more leads you have, the more DNA comparisons you can make.
- Go public in hope of attracting fresh leads. The earlier sex attacks could be a focus. The Commodore could be a focus. The more leads you have, the more DNA comparisons you can make.

b) You don't have DNA, but you've just spent 5 years chasing down every lead and your original POI (either from 2004 or 2008 or whenever) is still #1

- You've obviously tried everything and have been unable to get enough evidence for a conviction
- So you run and operation in view of trying to trap the CSK. Maybe release false information through the press. Maybe use a honeypot to try get him to confess. Maybe somehow use an undercover to get close to him and gain his trust. Monitor his internet. Is he interested in certain fetishes? Is he used the dark web or vpn to mask what he is looking at? Can you create an online group interested in that sort of stuff and have someone try to gain his trust?



I'm open to all scenarios but I just find Macro's action strange if they do in fact have DNA. Surely you have to have some sort of funnel to attract POIs?

Just to give you a fresh perspective..Stanbury wasn't demoted..he was shifted to forensics. That might tell you something.

 

[Mo Joe]

Just to give you a fresh perspective..Stanbury wasn't demoted..he was shifted to forensics. That might tell you something.

What might it tell us?

 

[MyLeftFoot]

What might it tell us?

It might tell you that they now have a full DNA profile

 

[meticulously]

Seeing " Claremont ghost " you-tube account could only be traced back to Lebanon years ago , surely nowadays a perp would be masking id / ip address if "they" post comments now ? But really do you think the offenders lifestyle would be stable & law abiding enough to risk detection via electronics ? Its possible hes got it sorted easily, just like "police & taxi scanners" may have been used for the csk attacks, advanced technology...
being on the WS might be watched by LE & I hope that all Ws members are trying & help the investigation of crimes with contributions. I doubt that this csk forum is groundbreaking news for this investigation by LE . A few regular posters here seem to be linked with the right side of the law , locals or maybe victims family from what I could sense ? Thinking about suspicious posters comments has been happening since gary Hughes blog or wayback then, it be interesting to hear from any veteran posters who have been online from the start who can probably tell some extra strange things. But its par for the course , in this case & it was what originally one of the main attractions initially to check out dr & john of uk etc etc, posts are more spooky than the general vibe nowadays . Websleuth has often by far the best info about cases ,paranoia is counter intuitive to being on the site . It would certainly be the dumbest move "csk" has ever made if he posted on here without an ip address scrambler imO

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[MyLeftFoot]

Seeing " Claremont ghost " you-tube account could only be traced back to Lebanon years ago , surely nowadays a perp would be masking id / ip address if "they" post comments now ? But really do you think the offenders lifestyle would be stable & law abiding enough to risk detection via electronics ? Its possible hes got it sorted easily, just like "police & taxi scanners" may have been used for the csk attacks, advanced technology...
being on the WS might be watched by LE & I hope that all Ws members are trying & help the investigation of crimes with contributions. I doubt that this csk forum is groundbreaking news for this investigation by LE . A few regular posters here seem to be linked with the right side of the law , locals or maybe victims family from what I could sense ? Thinking about suspicious posters comments has been happening since gary Hughes blog or wayback then, it be interesting to hear from any veteran posters who have been online from the start who can probably tell some extra strange things. But its par for the course , in this case & it was what originally one of the main attractions initially to check out dr & john of uk etc etc, posts are more spooky than the general vibe nowadays . Websleuth has often by far the best info about cases ,paranoia is counter intuitive to being on the site . It would certainly be the dumbest move "csk" has ever made if he posted on here without an ip address scrambler imO

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I doubt he would post..JMO..But I do think he would be reading every comment.

 

[MyLeftFoot]

I would say he would be feeling very skiddish! And so he should be!

 

[Mo Joe]

It might tell you that they now have a full DNA profile

If they have a full DNA profile, then why haven't they made an arrest?

 

[MyLeftFoot]

If they have a full DNA profile, then why haven't they made an arrest?

Mo Joe..It's not as simple as that. This doesn't end just because of an arrest. If you could grasp the enormity of getting a felon convicted, you'd have a better understanding just what work has to go into this.
DNA is a very significant tool but it's not the be all and end all unfortunately. Fast forward to a court case...what's the chance of getting it before a jury?....Next to none! It's had so much publicity, I think the culprit will opt for a judge only trial. Juries are easy to sway with DNA..not so a judge.