Australia Australia - Claremont SK, 1996-97, Perth, WA - #13

[Zedx]

Something that keeps crossing my mind, is that lots of serial killers have been know to leave their victims in the same area. The Birnie's, as far as we know left theirs at the pine plantation. Ivan Milat left all his in the same state forest. According to the movie, the police were only looking for one couple at first and if it hadn't been for one young detective insisting they widen their search of the area the others would not have been found. Do we know if the police have done a thorough search of the WHOLE areas around where JR and CG were found? Could SS be nearby?

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/predator-alert-after-student-stalked-in-claremont-ng-b88403979z

Student stalked in Claremont:
"The car was a medium sized white Holden sedan with a male driver and a passenger."

Just when we thought it was safe to go out in Claremont again!!!

 

[janwa]

Mate, that's such a sad, cruel thing to do. Glad they were reconnected. It takes a heart of steel to have done that to kids (and of course the adults). I reckon they should remove statutes of limitations for damages claims against these institutions, and make the trust assets available to execute against.

Good Idea and how about including the Popes assets

 

[janwa]

Last post for today I promise, (does this woman ever shut up, imagine living with her??) IF and it's a big IF, the CSK had an accomplice, could that have been a woman?? Was CSK a copycat killer and mimicking the dreaded Birnies, but learning (as another poster said previously) not to take the victims home with you? It would explain why our Claremont girls might have relaxed and let their guard down and got in a car so quickly as here was a nice "couple" offering a ride? I'm not suggesting a female was involved with previous rapes (but could have been, Catherine Birnie used to join in with rapes and even took notes!), just these 3 girls, these particular murders? Perhaps someone met on the dark net into the same perversions and wanting to try something "different"? (Sick) Maybe someone he knew from way back?/QUOTE]

Yes could have been female and could have been a girl regularly seen in the club who could have been the lure they may have felt safe with someone they had noticed several times even though they didn't particularly know her

 

[janwa]

To do fostering, for the right reasons, you have to be an incredible person. And you, I dare way, are.

Ain't that the truth well done lamp. I deal with the other, side parents who had their children taken for spurious reasons. Funny how the most expanding Dept is Child Protection and their commodity is other peoples children especially new borns. In dealing with people who have had their children taken some of the saddest situations were unwed mothers who were the designated receivers of soldiers pay in the war who never received it so were deemed unable to support their children. But I digress so will shut up..

 

[Spinnaker]

Something that keeps crossing my mind, is that lots of serial killers have been know to leave their victims in the same area. The Birnie's, as far as we know left theirs at the pine plantation. Ivan Milat left all his in the same state forest. According to the movie, the police were only looking for one couple at first and if it hadn't been for one young detective insisting they widen their search of the area the others would not have been found. Do we know if the police have done a thorough search of the WHOLE areas around where JR and CG were found? Could SS be nearby?

Good point Zedx.

 

[MsAnais]

Ain't that the truth well done lamp. I deal with the other, side parents who had their children taken for spurious reasons. Funny how the most expanding Dept is Child Protection and their commodity is other peoples children especially new borns. In dealing with people who have had their children taken some of the saddest situations were unwed mothers who were the designated receivers of soldiers pay in the war who never received it so were deemed unable to support their children. But I digress so will shut up..

I have to say, I understand historically that children were removed for 'spurious reasons'....but from my experience that is not what's happening now. It's actually a huge decision to remove a child from their family home and child protection officers are often loathe to do it, even in the face of evidence of abuse (as we see in media reports when children die at the hands of family and then there is outrage that child protection authorities didn't act).

I used to work as a psychologist for Dept of Community Development doing therapy with the children who had been removed due to serious abuse and neglect.

What these little ones have disclosed in sessions with me has truly broken my heart.

It's unfathomable what some parents/grandparents do to their children - and thankfully most people don't realise how cruel humans can be. (it even shocked me, and I've grown up reading about the terrible acts of serial killers)

I've now left that work, but I still have flashbacks to the terrible things that happened to these little children.

Unfortunately some children actually do need protecting from their parents, who in turn have suffered for years at the hands of their own parents. Intergenerational abuse is a real and terrible thing.

 

[MsAnais]

Thanks Ms Anais, I am an "acquired taste"! Yes that damn taxi in Pipidinny Road has bothered me for ages as it seems so random for someone to make this up? And I'm sure LE are all over SR and this brickies report as well. It just came to me that the female and male aspect has not been adequately covered, that I have seen anyway? This person could have been someone that was very dependent like Catherine Birnie and that was totally submissive and willing to see the CSK whenever he wanted and on HIS terms and they had become co-dependent. Once he was in a healthy relationship (well as healthy as he could maintain which wouldn't be at all what we would call normal) she would just blend into the background and the CSK wouldn't contact her, just a little dalliance he enjoyed when he needed it? We need to keep open to any possibility. Minds are like parachutes and work best when open!

Your description of possible dynamics between the CSK and a female partner reminds me of the terrible case of Joe Korp and Tania Herman - she was so co-dependent that she'd do literally anything for him, even kill his wife at his bidding :facepalm:

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/jailed-herman-sorry-for-korp-children-20120222-1tnco.html

 

[SN76]

Yes MsAnais..I remember the Korp/Herman case, just recently watched a documentary focusing on their relationship.

 

[CaptainTurbid]

I have to say, I understand historically that children were removed for 'spurious reasons'....but from my experience that is not what's happening now. It's actually a huge decision to remove a child from their family home and child protection officers are often loathe to do it, even in the face of evidence of abuse (as we see in media reports when children die at the hands of family and then there is outrage that child protection authorities didn't act).

I used to work as a psychologist for Dept of Community Development doing therapy with the children who had been removed due to serious abuse and neglect.

What these little ones have disclosed in sessions with me has truly broken my heart.

It's unfathomable what some parents/grandparents do to their children - and thankfully most people don't realise how cruel humans can be. (it even shocked me, and I've grown up reading about the terrible acts of serial killers)

I've now left that work, but I still have flashbacks to the terrible things that happened to these little children.

Unfortunately some children actually do need protecting from their parents, who in turn have suffered for years at the hands of their own parents. Intergenerational abuse is a real and terrible thing.

I know this is off topic however can attest that the current form of DCP (CPFS) is in very poor shape having had interaction with them over the last 8 years trying to save my sister in laws kids from their current fate.

For mine they don't act quickly enough removing children from drug and violent situations.

Thankfully one child was removed to the most awesome foster care situation at a very young age and he is thriving. It was too late for the older child who is now exhibiting early signs of following in her parents footsteps.


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[MsAnais]

I know this is off topic however can attest that the current form of DCP (CPFS) is in very poor shape having had interaction with them over the last 8 years trying to save my sister in laws kids from their current fate.

For mine they don't act quickly enough removing children from drug and violent situations.

Thankfully one child was removed to the most awesome foster care situation at a very young age and he is thriving. It was too late for the older child who is now exhibiting early signs of following in her parents footsteps.


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Oh CaptainTurbid, I'm so sorry to hear that.

It's wonderful that one child has been placed in loving care, but I do feel for the other poor child. Your example is unfortunately all too common in my experience.

 

[CaptainTurbid]

Oh CaptainTurbid, I'm so sorry to hear that.

It's wonderful that one child has been placed in loving care, but I do feel for the other poor child. Your example is unfortunately all too common in my experience.

We hear plenty of promises at the moment on how each party will crack down on drugs if they get in yet nothing about the victims who had no choice of their situation. Whichever party can provide cash and resources to the victim would get my vote.


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[lampformypath]

Never heard it called 'flea' here in Perth. Could SR be driver who 'dropped in' on other fares? Possible. Should I be accusing him of that? No, as that would be grounds for him to face the taxi tribunal if he were still driving as it is against rules.
As for whether he was a flea of a human or not, word be against WS rules to discuss.

"Flea" was a term my Dad and lots of other taxi driver mates called blokes who hopped in and took your job, pests I suppose that's why. I was just exploring the possibility of someone being able to drop in on another job, even with computer screens. If a taxi pulled up and the bloke said the old, "you waiting for a taxi" line and then even asked "what was your name again?" I'm sure a woman waiting out in an exposed position on a main road wouldn't be thinking of anything other than getting into a nice safe taxi and getting home and would tell them her name, to which the driver could then reply, "yep, that's what I've got on my screen". Not meaning it was only SR that could have been out and about, and this was the night BEFORE SS went missing that SR was talking about, just thought it was a very strange coincidence him saying he picked her up twice in one day. And not suggesting that SR is a "flea" of a person, don't know anything about him, only limited info in the media at the time. Exploring the taxi angle and seeing if this could happen and it seems it would be possible, even with computer screens. Thanks for your help and experience with all this, very valuable.

 

[Falco120]

Thanks Bunnie, no my Dad didn't know your Dad as I think totally different parts of the company, well that I know of. Sounds like a very can do sort of guy your Dad. And yes, I hadn't realised how early the computer screens came into use in WA. I still thought they had two way radios when CSK was about, but just one question Bunnie, could SR have been a bit of a "flea" and been driving about in a "private" taxi trying to pick up females standing at a rank, or on their own and pretending it was his job? You know something like "you're after a taxi aren't ya love, I've just tapped in for the job as I was driving nearby, hop in?" I know we were in Melbourne last year visiting relies and we saw a right bun fight to get our job outside the hotel. In the end we got in the "wrong" taxi as the bloke saw us with our suitcases looking at our watches worried we'd miss our flight, and pulled up and said he'd been sent, he hadn't as our "proper" taxi drove up a few seconds later and that driver started swearing at our driver, who just drove off and kept saying, "no worries, no worries, I was there first!" We were that damn glad to see a taxi, any taxi, as we had waited so long and were going to miss our flight, we would have jumped on a horse and cart if it came along!"

Yes, I've also caught the "wrong" taxi in the past when I've rung for one, hasn't happened often but it has happened.
All the reports say that it was 3 minutes from when SS rang and the taxi turns up. How about this for speculation: A bogus taxi was trawling around and just happened to drive past SS in those 3 minutes, wrong place wrong time. "Did you call for a taxi love?", "yeah", "Well then, hop in.". Do we honestly think SS would have gone, "No sorry, you aren't the taxi that's been dispatched."
I can understand why LE focused on the taxi industry. Found a suspect in SR, who was associated with PW. And, SR fabricates the story about picking her up the night before to give himself legitimacy. Was SR duty the night before and not the night SS went missing?
IMO - I don't think them two can be ruled out.

Unbelievable Lamp - We must have been both writing that at almost the same time. LOL.

 

[lampformypath]

Something that keeps crossing my mind, is that lots of serial killers have been know to leave their victims in the same area. The Birnie's, as far as we know left theirs at the pine plantation. Ivan Milat left all his in the same state forest. According to the movie, the police were only looking for one couple at first and if it hadn't been for one young detective insisting they widen their search of the area the others would not have been found. Do we know if the police have done a thorough search of the WHOLE areas around where JR and CG were found? Could SS be nearby?

Great question Zedx, that's crossed my mind too. See comment below from Paul Ferguson from a transcript of a Sunday Night programme. If this was the case with CSK he might well have left SS in the same area as CG or JR perhaps?
"STEVE PENNELLS: He wanted the body found.
PAUL FERGUSON: He wanted the body found. He gets a buzz twofold - one, out of the killings and two, out of all the publicity he’s getting."

https://au.news.yahoo.com/sunday-ni...453/transcript-catching-the-claremont-killer/

 

[JoWa]

Thanks JoWA for clarifying. Do you now if they confirmed the taxi was booked in the name of Spiers on the night SS disappeared?

I believe that it was. Has never been mentioned but it is a given that she was the only one there and she ordered the taxi.


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[lampformypath]

Ain't that the truth well done lamp. I deal with the other, side parents who had their children taken for spurious reasons. Funny how the most expanding Dept is Child Protection and their commodity is other peoples children especially new borns. In dealing with people who have had their children taken some of the saddest situations were unwed mothers who were the designated receivers of soldiers pay in the war who never received it so were deemed unable to support their children. But I digress so will shut up..

So sad JANWA for you too to be dealing with these horrible situations. Many injustices have/do still happen for babies and children from "well meaning" staff. We had a child brought to us in the middle of the night once (already had 3 others) and she had been literally scooped up in a blanket, all her worldly goods and herself in this blanket and she was dumped (and I mean dumped) in the middle of our lounge room on campus. The two women who brought her just turned and walked out after telling us her name, that's it! She didn't even have a brush or toothbrush or change of clothes and in amongst her stuff was a dirty nappy, obviously from a younger sibling. These "caring" Dept. staff had driven past dozens of chemists, supermarkets etc. but not thought to stop and buy a few toiletries for the poor little 9 year old who stood there shivering in shock! Yes I know what you are talking about, that expanding Dept. Big "industry". I'll shut up too, but I'm hearin' ya!

 

[lampformypath]

Yes, I've also caught the "wrong" taxi in the past when I've rung for one, hasn't happened often but it has happened.
All the reports say that it was 3 minutes from when SS rang and the taxi turns up. How about this for speculation: A bogus taxi was trawling around and just happened to drive past SS in those 3 minutes, wrong place wrong time. "Did you call for a taxi love?", "yeah", "Well then, hop in.". Do we honestly think SS would have gone, "No sorry, you aren't the taxi that's been dispatched."
I can understand why LE focused on the taxi industry. Found a suspect in SR, who was associated with PW. And, SR fabricates the story about picking her up the night before to give himself legitimacy. Was SR duty the night before and not the night SS went missing?
IMO - I don't think them two can be ruled out.

Unbelievable Lamp - We must have been both writing that at almost the same time. LOL.

BBM
Funny that!

 

[JoWa]

Yes, I've also caught the "wrong" taxi in the past when I've rung for one, hasn't happened often but it has happened.
All the reports say that it was 3 minutes from when SS rang and the taxi turns up. How about this for speculation: A bogus taxi was trawling around and just happened to drive past SS in those 3 minutes, wrong place wrong time. "Did you call for a taxi love?", "yeah", "Well then, hop in.". Do we honestly think SS would have gone, "No sorry, you aren't the taxi that's been dispatched."
I can understand why LE focused on the taxi industry. Found a suspect in SR, who was associated with PW. And, SR fabricates the story about picking her up the night before to give himself legitimacy. Was SR duty the night before and not the night SS went missing?
IMO - I don't think them two can be ruled out.

Unbelievable Lamp - We must have been both writing that at almost the same time. LOL.

Agree. IMO those two were responsible for the taxi attacks. I think the area drew psychos to it after the publicity from the Bernies. Interesting fact about the Bernies, my Dad was one of the guys prawning who found the victims purse in the Swan river.


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[lampformypath]

I have to say, I understand historically that children were removed for 'spurious reasons'....but from my experience that is not what's happening now. It's actually a huge decision to remove a child from their family home and child protection officers are often loathe to do it, even in the face of evidence of abuse (as we see in media reports when children die at the hands of family and then there is outrage that child protection authorities didn't act).

I used to work as a psychologist for Dept of Community Development doing therapy with the children who had been removed due to serious abuse and neglect.

What these little ones have disclosed in sessions with me has truly broken my heart.

It's unfathomable what some parents/grandparents do to their children - and thankfully most people don't realise how cruel humans can be. (it even shocked me, and I've grown up reading about the terrible acts of serial killers)

I've now left that work, but I still have flashbacks to the terrible things that happened to these little children.

Unfortunately some children actually do need protecting from their parents, who in turn have suffered for years at the hands of their own parents. Intergenerational abuse is a real and terrible thing.

BBM
Yes Ms Anais, terribly draining and soul destroying work sometimes. I know you will be taking care of yourself regarding the flashbacks, very important. :heartbeat: And so many of these children end up in the prison system due to abuse, lack of education, but mostly, lack of love. It's a vicious circle/cycle and creates very damaged and lost souls who sometimes, due to incredible anger, (which we have witnessed, super human strength sometimes in these children's rages!) seek revenge by raping and killing innocent people.