Australia Australia - Jenny Cook, 29, Townsville, Qld, 19 Jan 2009

[catswhiskers]

I have a feeling that might be a slight misquote or misinterpretation of the doctor's words. Without opening the inquest findings doc again, I thought the mention of an hour was referring to Jenny having her hands on the ground for at least that amount of time - allowing the pooling of blood to occur?
I could be right off base there though.

 

[SouthAussie]

I haven't caught up on the thread yet so sorry if this has already been discussed. Was Jenny impaled on that knife "for at least an hour"?. :facepalm:

NOVEMBER 28, 2013: Inquest queries police process
http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au...-1226770086680

Prof Williams said he found "therapeutic" amounts of Diazepam, Temazepam and alcohol in Mrs Cook's body. He said he found hypostasis, where circulation loss causes blood to pool in certain areas, in Mrs Cook's hands, suggesting she had plunged herself on the knife and remained in that position for at least an hour.

A report by a Scenes of Crime officer said Mrs Cook would have been dead within 10 minutes.

Prof Williams said Mrs Cook may have remained impaled on the knife until gravity took over. He agreed it was conjecture to say it was "daft" for someone else to push her on to the knife.

Oh my goodness, enzeder! You have made me have a thought about something that has been puzzling me. That could be what the plywood board was for (imo) .. to keep her in that impaled position until she started slumping to the ground and the board fell !! I have been wracking my brains trying to think why that board was in the picture, why it had been moved, why Jenny was laying on it.

JMO

 

[enzeder]

Oh my goodness, enzeder! You have made me have a thought about something that has been puzzling me. That is what the plywood board was for (imo) .. to keep her in that impaled position!! I have been wracking my brains trying to think why that board was in the picture, why it had been moved, why Jenny was laying on it ... whether it was for an hour or not.

JMO

Ohhhh, now that you mention it SouthAussie!............ :facepalm:

 

[Cattail]

Hi MrTT :seeya:

I personally have never, ever seen a case where the deceased has attempted to make suicide look like a murder.

I've also never read about that or even heard about it during discussions/debriefing sessions with colleagues........

Which is not to say that it never happens, but it would be highly unusual.

And even if a woman was going to set the scene to look like murder, perhaps out of fear of upsetting her family due to suicide, I really don't believe that THIS methodology is what a woman would choose. It's far too uncertain and violent IMO.

But this is MOO, of course!

I think if there was a fear of upsetting family they would more likely make it look like an accident. I believe for example that many single vehicle accidents could really be suicides.

moo.

 

[MsAnais]

I think if there was a fear of upsetting family they would more likely make it look like an accident. I believe for example that many single vehicle accidents could really be suicides.

moo.

Yep, me too.

And yes, apparently alot of single vehicle accidents involving males in particular, are suicides.

 

[enzeder]

I have a feeling that might be a slight misquote or misinterpretation of the doctor's words. Without opening the inquest findings doc again, I thought the mention of an hour was referring to Jenny having her hands on the ground for at least that amount of time - allowing the pooling of blood to occur?
I could be right off base there though.

I can see where Leading Senior Constable Mark Griffiths says what he believed regarding the ground/palms - see below quote. I'll keep looking though.

SC Griffiths said he believed Ms Cook had come off the knife quite quickly and then been in a position with her palms flat on the ground for some time. In that position she had vomited up the blood which was seen on the side of the board and the lividity in her palms had been established. She then rolled backwards and ended up in that position, except for the fact that someone had rotated her right arm clockwise so that her palm was then facing up.
http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/217931/cif-cook-jl-20131206.pdf

 

[FigTree]

Route from Townsville Correctional Center to the Cook Residence

15.7 km. Estimated driving time: 20 mins

If his workmate was truthful and did not see him from 11-1.30pm, that opens a bit of a window of time there. As the CCTV on the gates was out, I'm curious as to what other records might exist to show when Cook entered and left the premises that day. And if they exist, why these weren't shown to police or at the inquest, when they'd have been very useful.

If we were to go off the data stated from the Correctional centre - PJC left Correctional Centre at 12.47pm on the day of and didn't return that day.

11.00am - PJC cannot be accounted for at work: between 11am and 1.30pm.

11.00am - He stated he went to lunch at 11.00am

12.23pm - receipt from credit card at electronics shop - confirmed.


A 2 and a half hour lunch break?

--------
Source: Read More...

For instance, Cook told police that his movements could be easily confirmed by the jail's CCTV cameras. But detectives never checked, and in any case, renovations were being undertaken at the jail at the time and the cameras at the entry and exit gates weren't working. Jail logbooks, which had Cook entering the jail at 7.30 on the morning of his wife's death and leaving at 12.49pm, were also incomplete, with no record of him re-entering the prison that day.

 

[BatWoman]

It would make sense that he wouldn't have signed out if he was sneaking out early, so when he came back he wrote the IN time where he neglected to write the OUT time. Maybe if he left early he 'forgot' to make a note of that too. :dunno:

 

[Ausgirl]

Prof Williams said he found "therapeutic" amounts of Diazepam, Temazepam and alcohol in Mrs Cook's body. He said he found hypostasis, where circulation loss causes blood to pool in certain areas, in Mrs Cook's hands, suggesting she had plunged herself on the knife and remained in that position for at least an hour.

A report by a Scenes of Crime officer said Mrs Cook would have been dead within 10 minutes.

Prof Williams said Mrs Cook may have remained impaled on the knife until gravity took over. He agreed it was conjecture to say it was "daft" for someone else to push her on to the knife.

Oh mannnnn... that is just... really something. Really. Look at that -- two more drugs in her system which aren't listed on the police report, and it's missing the two original 'hayfever' drugs mentioned - why?

Also in light of the 'gravity' comment he made - you know I think he may have been serious when he suggested Jenny Lee was stuck to that knife for an hour.

And this:

Former police scientific officer Brad Bardell said he conducted an adhesive tape lift of the outside of the string on the knife handle, but no DNA was found.

.. I thought Jenny's DNA was found?

And for the love of Mike, THIS:

She had a sheet wrapped around her head, with pathologist Professor David Williams surmising she did so to avoid seeing the knife penetrate her body or to prevent damage to the wall.

.. what's WRONG with that man?

 

[SouthAussie]

And for the love of Mike, THIS:

She had a sheet wrapped around her head, with pathologist Professor David Williams surmising she did so to avoid seeing the knife penetrate her body or to prevent damage to the wall.

.. what's WRONG with that man?

If you have a little look around for info on Prof David Williams, you will probably ask that question even louder.

(greenleft.org.au about re-autopsy of Douglas Scott)

 

[Ausgirl]

Vanrell's report states that lesions on the body were "consistent with torture procedures", including a fractured pelvis, probably from kicking. Other injuries included fractures "usually produced by hand strangulation". The report also states that "All lesions present were not inflicted by the victim himself". These findings contradict the findings of the original inquest, which found that Scott committed suicide.

The court also heard from David Williams, a consultant forensic pathologist and associate professor at the University of Queensland. Williams was engaged by the Qld government by the order of the NT Supreme Court as an independent participant in the re-autopsy of Douglas's body in early April. Williams acknowledged under questioning that he has a close working relationship with the forensic pathologist for the defence, Dr Ansford, including co-authoring a book with him.

Williams dismissed the fractures found during the re-autopsy as degeneration of the bone, a proposition rejected by the leading international forensic experts who earlier gave evidence. Upon being questioned regarding his findings, Williams refused to answer what he referred to as "stupid questions" about the cause of the bone degeneration, before leaving the cross-examination.

https://www.greenleft.org.au/node/32560

:thud: ..that's TWO officials in this case named in msm in connection to cover-ups. The Douglas Scott case, where the wagons have circled, regarding the actions of prison guards.

btw, good stuff tonight, guys. Well done.

 

[SouthAussie]

I can't take credit for finding the Prof David Williams stuff ... but it is very interesting, isn't it? (To say the least.)

 

[FigTree]

Oh mannnnn... that is just... really something. Really. Look at that -- two more drugs in her system which aren't listed on the police report, and it's missing the two original 'hayfever' drugs mentioned - why?

Also in light of the 'gravity' comment he made - you know I think he may have been serious when he suggested Jenny Lee was stuck to that knife for an hour.

And this:


.. I thought Jenny's DNA was found?

And for the love of Mike, THIS:


.. what's WRONG with that man?

my bold...
:gaah: lol...

I thought it was just me.
I looked at those reports and went what?
The same with the dusting process of the windows and the knife for prints.

I still cant get a picture (in my head) of the crime scene blood spatter evidence - there isn't any or its not explained adequately in the docs.

Jenny was coughing up and vomiting blood - blood was found in her stomach - I cant imagine that the convulsions from coughing and vomiting would have allowed to her to stay on the knife at all, and to add, not cause more physical damage to her, and there to be no blood on the wall.

And what happened to the plastic sheet that Jenny was said to be lying on when she was on the board?

There are a few descriptions of that - and the sheet and the tie...

Source...blindfolded herself, tied a belt around her neck, put a sheet over the top of her head

Source: Report - She had a sheet and bath robe tie wrapped around her head and neck area, over the hat.

It appeared to Mr Haydon that the sheet under Ms Cook and behind her head had been wrapped around her head and secured with the bath robe tie which was around her neck.

Kraatz: He observed Ms Cook and noted that she was wearing a white floppy hat on her head and there was a brown fitted sheet partially draped over her head and under the length of her body. A white ‘bandage’ was loosely wrapped around her neck and appeared to be holding the sheet in place over the back of her head.

DS Osborn: Ms Cook had wrapped a sheet/towel around her neck/head area possibly to avoid witnessing the injury being inflicted.

Mr Ries said Mr Cook told him he found Ms Cook laying on a plastic sheet down the side of the house. Mr Cook told him that she had a few cut marks on her neck.

Report: She had a sheet tied around her neck and head area with a bath robe tie and it is likely that she was blindfolded when the knife pierced her chest;

Osborn said that she had considered the sheet and tie on Ms Cook’s head and was of the opinion that she had been blindfolded but didn’t think that fact put the death in the suspicious category.

Const Mann saw Ms Cook from the side gate. She did not enter the yard or the house. She saw that Ms Cook was lying on a piece of wood and she saw a fitted bed sheet and part of a bath robe underneath her. She saw some kind of material wrapped around her head and upper face area.

I guess it was never determined if the bed sheet was one of a set or that it had come from the house linen?
Was there another brown sheet in the house? A brown pillow case?
Was it a double sized sheet? If it wasn't do they have a single bed?
Where was the last place this sheet was seen?
:gaah:

 

[laserdisc10]

.. what's WRONG with that man?

That's what I've been asking myself all the way through

 

[laserdisc10]

https://www.greenleft.org.au/node/32560

Well done !

and thanks

 

[FigTree]

A NSW forensic officer also could not rule out the possibility she was pushed on to the knife.

Police released the scene shortly after hearing Prof William's preliminary findings -- less than 20 hours after the first call to triple zero.
Det Sen Const Cotter said he was not aware of any other investigations after the scene was released, but said police treated it as a homicide until they received the preliminary autopsy findings.

But the Lead Investigating Officer DS Osborn was calling it a suicide before the conclusion of the Preliminary Autopsy examination...
(my bold)

From the Report: At 1.40am on 20 January 2009 DS Osborn sent an email to ‘Inquiries Townsville’ (police) stating that the death was being treated as suspicious pending the outcome of the post mortem but would more than likely be ruled a suicide.

Who attended the Autopsy?

 

[FigTree]

If you have a little look around for info on Prof David Williams, you will probably ask that question even louder.

(greenleft.org.au about re-autopsy of Douglas Scott)

Nice find!! Super Sleuther!
For you ... :cupcake:

 

[laserdisc10]

I've been meaning to ask if anyone here understands the 'funeral refund' sought by P.Cook, because I don't get it

How can a funeral be refunded? And why did P.Cook try to get a refund from the funeral home when Jenny Cook's parents had paid for the funeral and Jenny had already been buried?

 

[Ausgirl]

Okay - to me it seems the Pullens are saying they paid for the funeral, and also Jenny's funeral benefits (claimed by PC) were then paid direct to the funeral director. PC wanted those paid back to him directly since the funeral was already paid for and also the legal fees in getting the claim through were pretty steep (50k).

 

[Ausgirl]

There were no marks on the grill, no prints, no indication that the dust had been disturbed. This has been bothering me a bit, because I find it very hard to believe anyone could run at a knife, have it stick 7 inches into their body and they wouldn't use their hands on the grill that is just inches from their skin. Not even to push away.

Williams' comments would have us suppose that Jenny could have died on the knife and, while she remained on her feet, the knife somehow held her weight up for maybe "an hour" without deepening the wound or producing gravity-borne tearing, and without Jenny touching or leaning on the grill inches from her face. Or getting a single smirch of blood on the wrapped handle of the knife, nor bleeding onto the white stones below though she would have been coughing up blood that was filling her lungs. Okay. :no: He's a professor. Why would he even suggest this?

I think Jenny was stabbed, and the knife pushed into the grill afterwards. That's what I think, at this point.