Australia Australia - Jenny Cook, 29, Townsville, Qld, 19 Jan 2009

[Ausgirl]

Now I am more awake and not too lazy to type - special thanks to Tigerlily for clearing up the question of "why was it called in as a cardiac failure". Awesome info, much appreciated.

 

[Ausgirl]

Marlywings, could we start a media/docs thread for Jenny's case please?
Does everyone else think that would be useful? I know this thread is only new - but I've already been going back trying to find things for another read.

I think it would be useful. Especially now MSM has picked up hard on the story and there's a lot more discussion going on. Plus, Jenny's family are set on keeping this in the public eye, so I think we can expect a lot more msm coverage and such to come.

Maybe we could have a timeline/media thread? Marly, what do you think?

 

[Ausgirl]

Detective Inspector (DI) Kitching, the Regional Crime Coordinator (RCC), arrived at 8.53pm and was given a briefing by DS Osborn, DSS Wilkie and PCC Cotter. He remained at the scene and coordinated the investigation.

Inspector Kitching was the Regional Crime Coordinator (RCC) in Townsville at the time of Ms Cook’s death. He said that his role was to overview, manage and coordinate serious crime investigations.
He was present at the house on 19 January 2009 and coordinated the investigation. He said that it was his responsibility to ensure that the matter was properly investigated.

http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/217931/cif-cook-jl-20131206.pdf

Chipping away at cop culture

Moynihan is indignant when the subject turns to Palm Island and the six years the matter has dragged on without resolution, a failing he sheets home in large part to Atkinson's failure to take action against police officers who failed to properly investigate Doomadgee's death. "My view is that in the police service there is a culture whereby they hold together, as spelled out in chapter seven of the Fitzgerald report," he says.
.....

But the immediate problem Moynihan has to settle, and it needs Atkinson's co-operation, is whether the four police involved in the Palm Island investigation and the two who later analysed their investigation should be disciplined, as has been recommended by the CMC.

The commission's review, released two months ago, says the issues there are as follows:

lThat Detective Inspector Warren Webber, regional crime co-ordination in Townsville, failed to conduct himself and discharge his responsibilities with professionalism and integrity, and to exercise proper diligence, care and attention.

lThat Inspector Mark Williams, of the QPS Ethical Standards Command, did not satisfy himself the officers involved in the investigation had no conflict of interest.

lThat Detective Senior Sergeant Raymond Kitching, officer in charge, Townsville criminal investigation branch,, "did not even think about the appropriateness of Hurley picking up the investigation team from the Palm Island airport and failed to make any record of the conversations during their car trip from the airport or subsequently address the issue in his interview with Hurley. Kitching suggested there was no problem with his attendance at Hurley's residence to eat a meal.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...y-at-cop-culture/story-e6frg6z6-1225907472747

 

[MsAnais]

Detective Inspector (DI) Kitching, the Regional Crime Coordinator (RCC), arrived at 8.53pm and was given a briefing by DS Osborn, DSS Wilkie and PCC Cotter. He remained at the scene and coordinated the investigation.

Inspector Kitching was the Regional Crime Coordinator (RCC) in Townsville at the time of Ms Cook’s death. He said that his role was to overview, manage and coordinate serious crime investigations.
He was present at the house on 19 January 2009 and coordinated the investigation. He said that it was his responsibility to ensure that the matter was properly investigated.

http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/217931/cif-cook-jl-20131206.pdf

Chipping away at cop culture

Moynihan is indignant when the subject turns to Palm Island and the six years the matter has dragged on without resolution, a failing he sheets home in large part to Atkinson's failure to take action against police officers who failed to properly investigate Doomadgee's death. "My view is that in the police service there is a culture whereby they hold together, as spelled out in chapter seven of the Fitzgerald report," he says.
.....

But the immediate problem Moynihan has to settle, and it needs Atkinson's co-operation, is whether the four police involved in the Palm Island investigation and the two who later analysed their investigation should be disciplined, as has been recommended by the CMC.

The commission's review, released two months ago, says the issues there are as follows:

lThat Detective Inspector Warren Webber, regional crime co-ordination in Townsville, failed to conduct himself and discharge his responsibilities with professionalism and integrity, and to exercise proper diligence, care and attention.

lThat Inspector Mark Williams, of the QPS Ethical Standards Command, did not satisfy himself the officers involved in the investigation had no conflict of interest.

lThat Detective Senior Sergeant Raymond Kitching, officer in charge, Townsville criminal investigation branch,, "did not even think about the appropriateness of Hurley picking up the investigation team from the Palm Island airport and failed to make any record of the conversations during their car trip from the airport or subsequently address the issue in his interview with Hurley. Kitching suggested there was no problem with his attendance at Hurley's residence to eat a meal.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...y-at-cop-culture/story-e6frg6z6-1225907472747

Oh no :facepalm: Blessings to Doomadgee.

That was a shocking case!! "The Tall Man". At least that gives us a clearer understanding of what we're dealing with here. It's endemic.

 

[FigTree]

Good thinking! That would explain the lack of drag marks. There was a stone path there (I have the impressin of gravel/pebbles but I could be way off) would the wheelbarrow had left a mark?

I have been earth building a pond recently with sand bags. To carry 2x25kg sandbags and 1x20kg bag of cement - I used a wheel barrow and place these items in it after filling the bags and then wheel the barrow about 25 metres to the pond.

Yes, the barrow leaves a wheel tread mark, its not deep.- proportional to point load and speed - and the type of tyre used on the barrow (air filled or solid rubber/plastic) it would depend on the weight and how it lies in the barrow. Air pumped tyres travel easy over stones without gouging - they leave a shallow rut.

But if I loaded those items onto a board laid across the top of the barrow, it would distribute the weight evenly. I just wouldn't lift the barrow very high off the ground to get it mobile. Would still leave a mark.

Only my opinion - but so far I've moved 300 sand bags this way.

ETA: The house also had 2 garages.

 

[Ausgirl]

Talking of endemic things.


The guard, who asked not to be named, told Good Weekend that the sex scandals that occurred there were on a scale that "you wouldn't believe", with warders often quitting over allegations they were having inappropriate contact with each other, or with prisoners. As recently as last year, the jail's hot-house staff relationships were still making headlines in local papers, including manager Andrew Pike quitting after allegations were published alleging he'd had an affair with a junior female clerk who also worked in his office - a scenario exposed by posts from the woman's jilted boyfriend on Facebook.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/knife-edge-20140714-3bvp7.html#ixzz38BdVUuMR


Shamed jail boss resigns

May 19, 2014

THE search is on for a new boss of Townsville Correctional Centre after disgraced manager Andrew Pike quit while being investigated for *alleged misconduct from a prison sex scandal.

It comes after the public outing of Mr Pike’s extramarital affair with a co-worker half his age, 23-year-old Samantha Wallis.

Mr Pike is believed to be going to a management position in the Northern Territory prison system.


--- Is it like, somehow akin to challenging the very laws of physics for people in the QLD justice system to actually get FIRED (let alone, gods forbid go to JAIL) for doing stupid, inappropriate or blatantly corrupt/illegal things?

 

[MsAnais]

Talking of endemic things. Remember Jenny's mum saying something about the amount of flings going on at the prison, and how it's well known for sexual impropriety?


Shamed jail boss resigns

May 19, 2014

THE search is on for a new boss of Townsville Correctional Centre after disgraced manager Andrew Pike quit while being investigated for *alleged misconduct from a prison sex scandal.

It comes after the public outing of Mr Pike’s extramarital affair with a co-worker half his age, 23-year-old Samantha Wallis.

Mr Pike is believed to be going to a management position in the Northern Territory prison system.


--- Is it like, somehow akin to challenging the very laws of physics for people in the QLD justice system to actually get FIRED for doing stupid, inappropriate or blatantly corrupt things?

I hear you!!

This is our justice system??!! WTF??!!

I read about this case yesterday (from 2010). There's ample in MSM about sexual relationships in the prison. Pretty sickening.

Such appalling abuse of power. And STILL nothing is done!!

The Opposition has raised questions about the management of the prison in Townsville in north Queensland, after allegations a female prison guard had an affair with an inmate.

Queensland police ethical standards command is investigating the alleged sexual relationship between the female guard and a violent offender at the Townsville prison earlier this year.

The allegations came to light last month, shortly before the woman resigned.

Opposition police and corrective services spokesman Vaughan Johnson says the discipline of prison guards across the State needs an overhaul if the allegations are found to be true.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-10-28/prison-guards-discipline-needs-attention-says/2314560

 

[MsAnais]

Then there's this:

STAFF at two Queensland jails have resigned over illicit sex while others are being investigated for abuse of power, violence and drugs.

The "culture" at Townsville men's and women's prisons is frustrating one of the state's top bureaucrats as taxpayers foot the bill for regular investigations, suspensions on full pay and a high staff turnover.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...520746926?nk=8797e9a7f8b45ae1f1d734ac40b46e89

 

[Ausgirl]

Whether Jenny Lee knew about this workplace environment it's hard to say, but she certainly had concerns about a tall, striking-looking female guard in her late 20s who was regularly rostered on to work with Cook. "Jenny confronted Paul, who denied there was anything between them,'' says a friend of the couple, who, like others Good Weekend spoke to, did not want to be identified

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/knife-edge-20140714-3bvp7.html#ixzz38BliH9Vh

I wonder when that happened..

 

[marlywings]

Marlywings, could we start a media/docs thread for Jenny's case please?
Does everyone else think that would be useful? I know this thread is only new - but I've already been going back trying to find things for another read.

I think it would be useful. Especially now MSM has picked up hard on the story and there's a lot more discussion going on. Plus, Jenny's family are set on keeping this in the public eye, so I think we can expect a lot more msm coverage and such to come.

Maybe we could have a timeline/media thread? Marly, what do you think?

Not a problem....

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...dia-Facts-Timeline-and-Maps-**NO-DISCUSSION**

 

[BJsleuth]

I have been earth building a pond recently with sand bags. To carry 2x25kg sandbags and 1x20kg bag of cement - I used a wheel barrow and place these items in it after filling the bags and then wheel the barrow about 25 metres to the pond.

Yes, the barrow leaves a wheel tread mark, its not deep.- proportional to point load and speed - and the type of tyre used on the barrow (air filled or solid rubber/plastic) it would depend on the weight and how it lies in the barrow. Air pumped tyres travel easy over stones without gouging - they leave a shallow rut.

But if I loaded those items onto a board laid across the top of the barrow, it would distribute the weight evenly. I just wouldn't lift the barrow very high off the ground to get it mobile. Would still leave a mark.

Only my opinion - but so far I've moved 300 sand bags this way.

ETA: The house also had 2 garages.

Thank you Fig tree! I know the barrow would crush the grass so there would be signs of that too if that,s how Jenny was moved. The question is, did the police look for any of that?

 

[Cattail]

Thank you Fig tree! I know the barrow would crush the grass so there would be signs of that too if that,s how Jenny was moved. The question is, did the police look for any of that?

I doubt it based on the other things they didn't do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ausgirl]

:tyou: Marly!!!!

 

[marlywings]

Making a note here...

Please refrain from accusing anyone of murder at this time unless someone is named a suspect or POI. Speculating is one thing, accusing is another.

Also, name calling/rude comments or straight out bashing law enforcement isn't allowed.

 

[MsAnais]

I hope Jenny's loved ones find this WS thread - I want them to know that there are people out there who care about Jenny losing her life and want to see justice served.

If you're reading - you're not alone! :seeya:

 

[Ausgirl]

Couple things maybe we can sleuth..

RSBM. Her chest injury was consistent with the knife being at that angle and entering from above.

A question, not directed to you Ausgirl, but with her back injury and the (rods? Inserted presumably) could she have manouvered herself into that position to force herself up onto the knife?

I was doing some research on self-inflicted stab wounds. But at this point, I want to gather basic info: how tall was Jenny? How high off the ground was the knife (I know it's mentioned, just too tired to look it up presently). What sort of force would be need to drive a very sharp, long knife 7cm into a lung? How much resistance would those organs have offered (here I am examining what kind of force was needed)? What does the downward angle of the wound imply given that the knife was firmly fixed in the window grill (perhaps best answered after we know the relevant heights..)

Idk, there would not have been much room for Jenny to throw herself forward onto the blade (there was a window grill there..). With the force needed to penetrate her body/lung, would she not have hit her head on the security grill?

How much blood would have escaped from her wound after she pulled away from the knife, given that she'd nicked a major artery of the heart? Is it possible for no blood to have escaped the wound as she fell away, only for it to pool around her? No arterial spray on the wall/ground by the window?

Now to real estate... thanks to the sleuthing power of Fig Tree, I saw the sale records of the house: Sold: $570,000 on 29/05/2009 -- quick eh, and apparently there was already another woman living with Cook in that house (and no ghosts, eh Paul???) by the time it sold.

Anyway, I am also looking at the Work Cover claim he benefitted from (which a few hundred thou, if the figure of 800K from house and claim is right). I am 100% ignorant on how work cover works, and how Jenny's death might have affected it. Also, I didn't know partners could get the money if their spouse died..

And if it is ever proven he murdered her, or conspired to have her murdered... would he be liable also for fraud, over that claim?

PHEW. So many questions. I know we have a lot of professional folks here, so I am hoping some with the know-how to answer some of it come along!

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Detective Senior Constable Damien Cotter, Det Sen Sgt Osborn's partner, said he formed the view Mrs Cook's death was a suicide after Professor David Williams gave a verbal preliminary report that her wound was "consistent" with a self-inflicted injury.

Barrister Marjorie Pagani, for Mrs Cook's parents, asked whether the wound could also be consistent with a person being pushed on to a knife. He replied "yes".


A NSW forensic officer also could not rule out the possibility she was pushed on to the knife.

http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/news/how-did-jenny-cook-die/story-fnjfzs4b-1226771779492

How they can fix this without the knife I don't know.

 

[FigTree]

Not a problem....

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...dia-Facts-Timeline-and-Maps-**NO-DISCUSSION**

The thread is closed now?

 

[marlywings]

All good now thanks FigTree

 

[FigTree]

RSBM....

Couple things maybe we can sleuth..

I was doing some research on self-inflicted stab wounds. But at this point, I want to gather basic info: how tall was Jenny? How high off the ground was the knife (I know it's mentioned, just too tired to look it up presently). What sort of force would be need to drive a very sharp, long knife 7cm into a lung? How much resistance would those organs have offered (here I am examining what kind of force was needed)? What does the downward angle of the wound imply given that the knife was firmly fixed in the window grill (perhaps best answered after we know the relevant heights..)

Idk, there would not have been much room for Jenny to throw herself forward onto the blade (there was a window grill there..). With the force needed to penetrate her body/lung, would she not have hit her head on the security grill?

Good researching and sleuthing Ausgirl :tyou:
I think because the blade entered in a downward position into Jennys rib area - and at such a depth - I cant imagine anyone jumping up into the knife, because that's what would have had to happened.
And I cant imagine the knife being jammed in that hard to stay in position with a persons weight on the knife.
She would have had to have thrown herself off the knife as well.
And there would have been a bigger cut opening area as the weight of the body slid down the knife edge, and if the knife moved at all the opening of the cut should be shorter than the cut within the body.

If the knife cut were uniform inside and out of the body - then I say it was inserted and pulled from the body - not self inflicted by walking into or jumping up into.

JMO

That knife would have needed to be clamped into position - not just wedged.


And (JMO) to cut yourself - the blade edge is the wrong way down.