Australia Australia - Jenny Cook, 29, Townsville, Qld, 19 Jan 2009

[Ausgirl]

I have REALLY long arms, some people call me SpiderMonkey. I just measured my armspan, fingers curled as if i were holding the wood and I would just be able to reach across a 5x5 piece of ply.

Thanks, Spidermonkey.

I think I wouldn't even be able to drag something that awkward and heavy around.

 

[Cattail]

1300mm isn't a super high fence. Bearing in mind that the knife wound was apparently1350mm from the Jenny's heels - it just seems a rather exposed spot to choose to commit suicide as it seems possible that neighbours or passers-by would surely see something fishy going on? Even if the knife wasn't visible, strange behaviour and the sheet over the head get-up would seem very odd imo.

It would help a lot to have an idea of her height. I tried to measure it on myself to get some idea and I am too short - I would be stabbing myself around my shoulder.

I too would wonder why my neighbour was launching themselves at a brick wall if I saw this happening.

I know there have been some violent methods used for suicide - a couple that I have heard of particularly turn the stomach. But they have been done out of sight, and also although violent they were pretty much instant and certain.

This story is so bizarre I cannot comprehend how anyone could think it is suicide.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Cattail]

Info about the board from the inquest doc. Jenny's mum is also quoted as saying she saw the board up against the fence after her daughter's death, and that it was so heavy she couldn't move it and she doubted Jenny would have been able to either.

With a bad back too.


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[BJsleuth]

Thanks, Spidermonkey.

I think I wouldn't even be able to drag something that awkward and heavy around.

I ha e carried a 6x5 sheet of ply when my kids were younger, so I'm talking about 18 years ago. I made Christmas cut outs for the lawn. I remember it was very awkward to carry. Often, I will lean things on the top of my shoes and "walk it" along.

 

[BJsleuth]

Okay - I just did one of my re-enactments. Lay down on the floor in approximate position of Jenny, arms and legs roughly the same. Palms down... I can see how blood could have settled at the lowest point of the hands if both her hands were facing down and resting on the ground when the blood settled and fixed. If someone rotated one of her hands/wrists to a palm-up position before rigor made that impossible, then the lividity would show it (as it indeed did..).

What's got me stumped now is, they say it's her right hand that's been turned over so it's palm up. But it's much easier to turn the left with my arms in that position... I can't imagine rigor causing a limb to rotate 180 degrees, either (could be wrong there).

Anyone else up for giving it a go?

I wonder if the dog was able to access the area at any time? It's not unusual for them to paw at their owner's body or nudge at them with their nose trying to get them to move. I just had that thought because my dog has sidled up to me and is nudging my hand to get me to pat her.

 

[FigTree]

I have carried a 6x5 sheet of ply when my kids were younger, so I'm talking about 18 years ago. I made Christmas cut outs for the lawn. I remember it was very awkward to carry. Often, I will lean things on the top of my shoes and "walk it" along.

Yes, I agree, they are difficult to carry - if you don't have the arm span for them or they are square and large and a few ply thick.
The pressure around the lower back to lift such a board is pretty intense - the shorter you are the harder it is to get distance off the ground.
It could have been dragged or kicked into position, but still this is a lot of effort to go to for Jenny if she was recovering from back surgery.

I wish we had some finer details of the case.

I got the impression because PC mentioned the knife was missing from the block in the kitchen, that it was a kitchen knife - and had its place in the kitchen.
Was it ever asked if the knife was wrapped and bound before the incident?
Or are they saying that Jenny wrapped and bound the knife?

I'm not reading any 'wow - look what she did to the knife handle' from PC.
I thought he might have been familiar with the wrapped handle and why knife handles are wrapped (being in the army).

If it had been used as a kitchen knife that string binding would have had to have been wet at some stage from washing up which meant it would have shrunk onto the handle, and the white twine would have been marked or dirty from use in the kitchen.
The handle is white and clean.
Looks more like a hunting knife with that wrap.

There are plenty of websites regarding why and how to wrap cord around a handle of a knife.
Mostly hunting, survival, sport, military and martial arts - also why binding with tape help for waterproofing and keeping the string on the handle in place.

JMO

 

[FigTree]

Fig tree, this article Oddsocks linked mentions PC was a soldier, in answer to the question you asked if PC was in the army.

Ah yes, thank-you. I was wondering more-so why he left the Army.
Was he only training and then decided not to join - or had he finished his army service - or was he a Reservist?
I was pondering as to why leave the army.
:seeya:

 

[FigTree]

Paul Cook gave evidence. In relation to the scene he stated that the plywood board had been left over from the construction of the house and he had not gotten around to disposing of it. He said it weighted between 10 and 20kg and was awkward to move as it was about 5 foot by 5 foot. He said he believed Ms Cook would have been able to move it. He could not recall who moved it after Ms Cook’s death but agreed that it was leaning against the fence when Mr and Ms Pullen visited. Some time later he disposed of it.

Info about the board from the inquest doc. Jenny's mum is also quoted as saying she saw the board up against the fence after her daughter's death, and that it was so heavy she couldn't move it and she doubted Jenny would have been able to either.

Thank-you for that catwhiskers!
I have skipped this when reading.
Yep, I don't think Jenny could have moved it either.

 

[Oddsocks]

Something is bothering me. These 2 paragraphs.

"It's the body of a woman, lying on her left side on a bloodstained plywood board, with her legs folded backwards. There are spots of congealed blood on her forehead and the left side of her chest.

She's wearing shorts, runners, and a sun hat. Strangely, what looks like a section of a sheet has been wrapped around the back of her head, partly obscuring her face, and a bathrobe tie is secured around her throat.
From http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/10301244/The-strangest-of-suicides


And this from the inquest. http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/217931/cif-cook-jl-20131206.pdf
There was no blood on the wall and the only blood near to it was a drop on the stones which had come from the tip of the knife blade.

SC Griffiths stated he was of the opinion that the knife was perpendicular to the ground at the time it entered Ms Cook’s chest and then it came to end up at a downward angle after she came off the knife. He said that, if it had been at the angle at which it was seen after her death, she would have had to push herself up onto it.



Anyway just putting this here so I can come back and think about it when it's not ridiculous o'clock.

 

[Ausgirl]

.. I was woken up... cant get back to sleep... Good spot, Oddsocks!!!! I somehow missed that were blood spots on her face, but not the wall. Lots of implications, looking forward to what you make of it.

BJ - the dog was apparently locked up on the balcony when PC came home. A close neighbour, however, thought the dog might be down the side, where Jenny was found.

If the balcony's at the front of the house (there's one there) then maybe someone saw the dog up there? If it was frantic enough to howl all day (it suddenly stopped at 4.30 pm) so maybe someone looked up. It's a boxer, so not a little dog. I thought the balcony was enclosed with plexiglass or something, as it has a fan on its ceiling? And what's to stop the dog jumping out (or trying to). I'd really like to know more about that balcony. If it's enclosed and the neighbour heard 'outside' level noises, that could be a very important bit of info.

 

[Ausgirl]

I thought I might spend a bit of time this coming weekend typing up a comprehensive (according to info we have so far..) timeline of this case. Unless anyone else is already on it?

 

[BatWoman]

That would be great, Ausgirl. My brain is too scrambled to sort through methodically.

 

[catswhiskers]

Yes, I agree, they are difficult to carry - if you don't have the arm span for them or they are square and large and a few ply thick.
The pressure around the lower back to lift such a board is pretty intense - the shorter you are the harder it is to get distance off the ground.
It could have been dragged or kicked into position, but still this is a lot of effort to go to for Jenny if she was recovering from back surgery.

I wish we had some finer details of the case.

I got the impression because PC mentioned the knife was missing from the block in the kitchen, that it was a kitchen knife - and had its place in the kitchen.
Was it ever asked if the knife was wrapped and bound before the incident?
Or are they saying that Jenny wrapped and bound the knife?

I'm not reading any 'wow - look what she did to the knife handle' from PC.
I thought he might have been familiar with the wrapped handle and why knife handles are wrapped (being in the army).

If it had been used as a kitchen knife that string binding would have had to have been wet at some stage from washing up which meant it would have shrunk onto the handle, and the white twine would have been marked or dirty from use in the kitchen.
The handle is white and clean.
Looks more like a hunting knife with that wrap.

There are plenty of websites regarding why and how to wrap cord around a handle of a knife.
Mostly hunting, survival, sport, military and martial arts - also why binding with tape help for waterproofing and keeping the string on the handle in place.

JMO

I've wondered about who actually bound the knife handle too, as it's occurred to me that it might have been this way for some time. What's the bet that the police didn't even ask PC about this?? It's not mentioned in the inquest summaries of his interviews so I gather they didn't. That string would contain heaps of touch DNA left by the person who bound it so tightly. Remember PC said something about regretting having bought that knife and that it was as sharp as a sword...? I think that was an odd comment to make. Anyway I wondered if it might have been a difficult knife to use as it was long and under that binding the handle actually looks like it was very slender - could it have been bound earlier to make it easier to handle somehow? It's either that or someone bound it specifically so it would be easier to wedge forcefully into the gap in the window/screen frame. I think that in itself would be a difficult task too - wedging it in firmly enough so it would stay put for stabbing purposes (if that is actually what happened) would be awkward and rather dangerous to do without losing a finger if the knife was so sharp. I wonder if notes were taken describing how securely it was positioned there - surely if it was just loosely dangling or easy to remove it could also mean it would be an improbable way of committing suicide?

Regarding the ply board - well there varying thicknesses, and for building purposes I imagine it wouldn't be lightweight. I recall buying a roughly one square metre piece of ply that was well over a cm thick and it was very heavy to lift and carry.
Maybe the house is clad in ply and then rendered and/or painted? It looks like a possibility in the real estate pics in the link BJsleuth posted yesterday, plus the large balcony off the main bedroom is visible in one of the pics too - maybe this is where PC claimed the dog was?
http://www.realestateworld.com.au/real-estate/view/1264652.aspx

 

[FigTree]

I thought I might spend a bit of time this coming weekend typing up a comprehensive (according to info we have so far..) timeline of this case. Unless anyone else is already on it?

A timeline would be great Ausgirl - if you have the time yourself to do it - would be much appreciated I'm sure.

:seeya: :tyou:

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

I actually have trouble with spatial imagination (and this is why I often do crime scene re-enactments on my cats, friends, housemates and offspring, they are all very tolerant of me, bless them, lol!) so forgive me if I am way off base here -- but my housemate suggested maybe she could have a downward angled wound if she was bent over a bit.

I.. dunno. I can't picture it well enough to say. But my first thought was, she had very little room to bend there, with the window grill and all. I just can't grasp the angles involved.

Oh me too, I have got much better with practice but I still am not great...but as someone else mentioned the board is just weird and I think that's part of what's throwing me for a loop.

I also thought (ERrrr maybe just watched too much tv) that when a person stabs herself we often see "hesitation" marks, I assume because of anticipating the pain. Another thing I think I remember from my psyc lessons was that women are more likely to commit suicide thru non-violent means...I could be making that up too. :waitasec:

I just can't understand what about the actual scene supported suicide as a viable theory.

 

[Ausgirl]

Actually - the research I am doing shows that a single, clean stab wound through the heart *can* be indicative of suicide. In these cases, people 'fall' on a knife or find some other means of driving the weapon into their bodies. It's rare, but happens. And when mental illness is involved, people of both sexes can do some truly horrific things to themselves, things that make this case look utterly tame...

(but yes, women do generally choose less violent methods, you're quite right there)

I just don't think suicide is what happened, here. And there were several people both directly and peripherally in her life who would know exactly how to stage a suicide scene, and what police *might* look for when investigating an apparent suicide... (that's IF the police were actually looking, oy).

There are many reasons I think this was a cleverly staged murder, but here's a big one -- for someone to so meticulously wrap a knife handle (and people who are suicidal can make meticulous plans) and then basically choose to play 'pin the tail on the donkey' with a massive knife, blindfolded, just seems extremely odd. Most self-inflicted stab woulds show signs that the person has bared their skin over the intended stab site - they want to get it right. So they need to *see* what they are doing. And this when their own hand controls the knife -- a knife attached to a wall is way less certain, and the momentum necessary to drive the blade through her chest means she must have backed up at least a little ways. This is so hit-and-miss, it doesn't gel statistically, nor with the meticulous knife-wrapping. Also, an apparently convoluted suicide method, from a person who journalled a great deal and was a known list-maker -- yet there's no note, no instructions on care for her beloved dog... no apology to her beloved parents... nothing. It does not gel, at all, in my mind.

But why stage it, if her death was staged, in this *specific* way? Well, it would appear that she didn't die in the house, a big bonus if you plan to move a new lover in quite soon (which happened) and sell it quickly (which also happened).

And it'd be a good way to cover up a stabbing murder, eh.

 

[MsAnais]

Actually - the research I am doing shows that a single, clean stab wound through the heart *can* be indicative of suicide. In these cases, people 'fall' on a knife or find some other means of driving the weapon into their bodies. It's rare, but happens. And when mental illness is involved, people of both sexes can do some truly horrific things to themselves, things that make this case look utterly tame...

(but yes, women do generally choose less violent methods, you're quite right there)

I just don't think suicide is what happened, here. And there were several people both directly and peripherally in her life who would know exactly how to stage a suicide scene, and what police *might* look for when investigating an apparent suicide... (that's IF the police were actually looking, oy).

There are many reasons I think this was a cleverly staged murder, but here's a big one -- for someone to so meticulously wrap a knife handle (and people who are suicidal can make meticulous plans) and then basically choose to play 'pin the tail on the donkey' with a massive knife, blindfolded, just seems extremely odd. Most self-inflicted stab woulds show signs that the person has bared their skin over the intended stab site - they want to get it right. So they need to *see* what they are doing. And this when their own hand controls the knife -- a knife attached to a wall is way less certain, and the momentum necessary to drive the blade through her chest means she must have backed up at least a little ways. This is so hit-and-miss, it doesn't gel statistically, nor with the meticulous knife-wrapping. Also, an apparently convoluted suicide method, from a person who journalled a great deal and was a known list-maker -- yet there's no note, no instructions on care for her beloved dog... no apology to her beloved parents... nothing. It does not gel, at all, in my mind.

But why stage it, if her death was staged, in this *specific* way? Well, it would appear that she didn't die in the house, a big bonus if you plan to move a new lover in quite soon (which happened) and sell it quickly (which also happened).

And it'd be a good way to cover up a stabbing murder, eh.

Thanks for that Ausgirl. Completely agree with everything you've said there. Pin the Tail on the Donkey indeed!!:facepalm:

I just wanted to emphasise that suicide by 'impalement' on a weapon seems to be EXTREMELY rare. And those 'choosing' that method are indeed usually seriously mentally ill eg. psychotic.

Jenny simply doesn't fit the profile at all.

You guys are doing SUCH great sleuthing work!! Thank you all so much for everything you've collectively come up with. :seeya:

 

[Ausgirl]

Omg - the dog.

Think about this. If you came home, found your wife not present and instantly thought she'd harmed herself or left you (one or the other, hey) then found the dog locked up on the balcony (all day... imagine how frantic the dog would be, especially a boxer) what would you do? Leave the dog locked up there while you looked for your wife? Let the dog out into the yard, while you looked for your wife? Or take the dog for a leisurely stroll...?

From the inquest report:

Mr Cook said when he got home that evening from work (at about 7pm) he thought it was unusual that Ms Cook was not there. He found the dog shut out on the upstairs balcony. He took the dog for a walk and at some stage texted Ms Cook and heard her phone beep in the office.
He started looking around the house for her and then found her handbag and shoes. He looked in the garage and then went outside and saw her lying down the side.


He got home from work at 6.45pm;

Jenny was not home;

The dog was upstairs;

The back door was unlocked;

He walked the dog;

He returned and drank a Pepsi;

He had a shower;

He searched the house but could not find her;

He texted her and heard her phone;

He saw the knife was missing and emptied the dishwasher;

He searched the shed;

^ All this, BEFORE he says he found Jenny - in and out of the house. So where was the dog during all this? If the dog had been locked up all day, wouldn't you let him out into the yard at some point? Did the dog, despite being locked up all day, stay in the house while PC was going in and out, doing this and that? No mention of the dog. Which would, I have NO doubt, have located Jenny's body quick smart, if he was out in the yard at all.

I just keep seeing more and more stuff, the longer I stare at this.

 

[Ausgirl]

Is WorkCover paid for work related death?

Can I claim for a work caused death?
If a person dies as a result of a work injury or a medical condition caused or worsened by work, it is possible to make a claim.

http://workforcelegal.com.au/pages/faq-main-is-workcover-paid-for-work-related-death.html

This is something I really want to look into as a possible *motive* for hypothetically! speaking staging a suicide. Ie, a big payout for a suicide that could be claimed came about because of an injury *worsened by work*... which probably was how PC claimed, seeing as he did get a substantial payout. If Jenny went missing or was murdered, no payout. :waitasec:

As I said before, I am not wise in the ways of work cover, let alone how a case like this might be handled, and why it was observed in the inquest findings that PC was lying about things in order to make sure the work cover claim came through. Ie, how did he change his story to make sure he got the money? -- (seeing as wasn't going to be arrested or anything...) and what statements/actions might have jeopardised that claim, to warrant the lying?

 

[catswhiskers]

Ausgirl, don't forget that PC unpacked the dishwasher somewhere along the line too. :thinking: