GUILTY Australia - Jill Meagher, 29, Melbourne, 22 Sep 2012 #3

[Bayside]

I still don't get why she didn't call her husband. I can only think that she didn't think she was in any danger.

Also suspect there is more CCTV stuff that is more incriminating that we have not seen! But I suspect the clincher in this case will be the DNA evidence. Finding the handbag & the body so quickly will be of enormous help in this regard.

But it does get me thinking of all the people who go missing everyday and never get found. And their families and loved ones. Like that boy Daniel Morcombe. And countless others. While Jill Meagher captured our hearts, the people who have never been found should capture our minds.

Very nice of you to stop and think of the others that can go forgotten.

 

[alioop]

I beg to differ ...

In Victoria, only the Supreme Court can impose a life sentence. A term of ‘life’ means for the term of an offender’s natural life. However, the court must fix a non-parole period for any sentence of two years or more, unless it considers that the nature of the offence or the past history of the offender makes it inappropriate to fix a non-parole period. If a non-parole period is not set for a life sentence, the offender will remain in prison for their whole life.

http://www.sentencingcouncil.vic.go...encing-options/sentencing-adults/imprisonment

I think Bluebottle was just referring to Australia generally, there are differences between the states about the definition of life sentences. Also for example there are differences about mandatory sentencing. QLD has mandatory sentencing for murder but it looks like Victoria doesn't.

 

[Firesnake]

I'd still like to know why the others in the CCTV haven't come forward.

The couple with the round white object (bag? frisbee?) may have been Asian and may not be aware that they are being asked to come forward - tourists perhaps.

But the man in the suit who looked back - he MUST come forward. Also the person - ?student - carrying the shoulder bag (messenger bag style).

Where are they? What have they got to lose by coming forward and telling the police their stories?

Or maybe they have, and we just don't know yet?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...-last-seen-alive/story-e6frg6nf-1226483480446

Brunswick woman Holly Edward, 22, who lives above the boutique, was caught on the same security footage minutes before Ms Meagher appeared.

She was walking home from a party with her boyfriend.

“It's pretty sickening,” she said.

Ms Edward said she had walked alone at night in the area many times but would now be more aware.

“I've been taking my bike out more in trips ... or making sure someone is with me,” she said.

 

[DrWatson]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...-last-seen-alive/story-e6frg6nf-1226483480446

Brunswick woman Holly Edward, 22, who lives above the boutique, was caught on the same security footage minutes before Ms Meagher appeared.

She was walking home from a party with her boyfriend.

“It's pretty sickening,” she said.

Ms Edward said she had walked alone at night in the area many times but would now be more aware.

“I've been taking my bike out more in trips ... or making sure someone is with me,” she said.

Thanks Firesnake - looks like at least they came forward. I wonder if the police have statements from the guy in the suit who looked back? Would LOVE to know what he saw....

 

[LostSock]

If it is true that life without parole exists over there in some cases, there could be no case more applicable. And at least the judge will know his complete history. Someone already made a mistake, in my opinion, in letting him roam free.

In all likelihood, being a repeat sex offender and now a murderer he will probably be locked up under her majesty's pleasure, that is locked up until the court decides he is no longer a threat to society. They should do this to all sex offenders in my opinion they shouldn't be isolated to be protected from other prisoners either if they are repeat offenders. If they didn't learn their lesson first time around they deserve no favours nor any mercy.

IMO

 

[jac6007]

I know this is awful but I can't get it out of my mind.

If the police are alleging that both crimes occurred in Brunswick -was it Jill's screams that the lady in the Turkish shop heard? Didn't she contact police, but they didn't respond?

It's just awful, so bloody awful.

 

[Fuskier]

...
... And i bet they are pissed at the number of attempts along Sydney Rd that went un-reported initially - there is an obvious pattern and they would had him in next to no time months ago.

There is something we can learn from this - to report 'flashers' and/or attempts at sexual assault to Police as soon as they happen. Police are better equipped to co-ordinate the information, establish a 'pattern' and intercept if an offender is escalating his behaviour. IMO.

 

[Maigret]

I know this is awful but I can't get it out of my mind.

If the police are alleging that both crimes occurred in Brunswick -was it Jill's screams that the lady in the Turkish shop heard? Didn't she contact police, but they didn't respond?

It's just awful, so bloody awful.

That's what that woman stated in an early video but not sure if it's been documented as fact yet if so then whoever took the call would be feeling quite bad....
I guess they can't attend every call out for a 'scream'

 

[bearbear]

interesting little tidbit:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...s-meagher-family/story-e6frg6nf-1226483205167



Wonder what the amendment was all about?

maybe they had to amend the wording because they were being sensitive to jills family sitting in court, so they made it less graphic?

from what ive read it sounds like jill was assaulted and killed in the alleyway where her bag was found, she probably ran and dropped it. he may have had his car parked in there, it seems to go a long way back and very secluded. you would think though that police would be there this week gathering dna samples etc and thoroughly checking the area? even if thats what he admitted, you would think they would still need back up evidence?
i wonder if her phone was in her pocket?
also, why did her kill her?

 

[Fuskier]

... QLD has mandatory sentencing for murder but it looks like Victoria doesn't.

Maybe Victoria needs to catch up with Queensland in terms of mandatory life sentences for murder asap.
This case highlights the need for change in that direction IMO.

 

[cluciano63]

If this guy pleads not guilty, the details of the attack are bound to be heard in trial, as they will be necessary for the jury, at least they would be heard here in the USA. Jill had to endure the attack...surely people deciding the fate of a monster who would inflict the horror should hear exactly what was done. There should be no doubt as to how brutal the attack and murder was. When they do this here in court, the families and others present are usually warned, in case they do not wish to be present.

 

[LostSock]

Maybe Victoria needs to catch up with Queensland in terms of mandatory life sentences for murder asap.
This case highlights the need for change in that direction IMO.

Even life sentences have a time limit though, not many spend the rest of their lives in prison, all repeat offenders should because they have proven there is no hope for them.

 

[Blue Bottle]

I think Bluebottle was just referring to Australia generally, there are differences between the states about the definition of life sentences. Also for example there are differences about mandatory sentencing. QLD has mandatory sentencing for murder but it looks like Victoria doesn't.

That's true. I was merely generalising a generalisation. Though I have learnt a few things about the sentencing process which I never knew yesterday so all is good.

When you look at people like Bryant and Milat you sure hope they never get out and looking at their sentences, it does seem to be that way. Never to be released. However, not many end up with such extreme sentences though.

Sure, this is from Wiki Waki which at times can be wrong, but nevertheless, it publishes the gist of things. There doesn't seem to be any real clarification at what is viewed as being a 'most extreme case'.

Like, would Adrian Ernest Bayley ever be considered to be a ' most extreme' case by the Courts?

In the most extreme cases, the sentencing judge will refuse to fix a non parole period, which means that the prisoner will spend the rest of their life in prison. In New South Wales, if the prisoner is convicted of the murder of a police officer, they will automatically be sentenced to life imprisonment without parole.

Life imprisonment in Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[GutFeeling!]

This annoys me. Many ppl have hard childhoods or bad relations with one or other parent or family member. This is not an excuse for behaving so abominably. I can see it now thrown into his defense, he's not responsible or diminished responsibility because at 41 he hasn't grown the **** up. At what point do we stop this crap? He's 41, not a child. Totally responsible for his actions, I don't give two hoots about his childhood.

Ok rant over. Possible over reaction on my part :|

Snipped: I doubt there would be anyone that would disagree but it has been proven over and over again that being abused as a child "can" lead to poor behaviour as an adult, how we all deal with that is different. It is no excuse in my book, he is 41, he is old enough to realize that his childhood "broke" him of it did and he has been in the system enough to get help.

I am not going to make any excuses for him at all, but we do have a justice system for a reason and he is entitled to his trial and his peers will be the judges if he does plead not guilty - how he wants to try and convince them is up to him and his lawyer.

I have to believe that he is indeed a very sick person, because for the life of me I can't imagine anyone that is well ever committing horrendous acts.

 

[oz_sleuth]

I know this is awful but I can't get it out of my mind.

If the police are alleging that both crimes occurred in Brunswick -was it Jill's screams that the lady in the Turkish shop heard? Didn't she contact police, but they didn't respond?

It's just awful, so bloody awful.

the Turkish shop is on the corner of Sydney and Hope.

The back of the restaurant is literally 30 minutes from the corner of Hope and Ovens (ovens is there her bag was found)

I have no doubt that woman heard Jill screaming. Shame on her for not going out there to investigate. If she did she would have saved Jills life.

 

[mister2]

Even life sentences have a time limit though, not many spend the rest of their lives in prison, all repeat offenders should because they have proven there is no hope for them.

Most have a time limit, although the option is there for life without parole.

If you have a look at the type of people that get life without parole you will see a pattern of repeat offenses often against women, children or police; or particularly callous one-off events.

This is suspect would be fit that pattern.

Life imprisonment in Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Mystique75]

That's what that woman stated in an early video but not sure if it's been documented as fact yet if so then whoever took the call would be feeling quite bad....
I guess they can't attend every call out for a 'scream'

Agree with this. The only thing I would find hard to accept, if it's true that the woman from the Turkish place did in fact report the scream, is that it went unchecked even though this would be the very type of person to NOT ignore - someone who is well aware of what is out of the ordinary for that area.

Even then, it could be a regular occurance?

Either way, I'm not suggesting anyone was to blame. I'd like to think some lessons could come from this. I wonder how many screams go unreported too?

 

[alioop]

There are just so many what ifs we can ask, any one of them could have prevented Jill losing her life. All we can do is learn lessons and if we personally can stop, observe and assist to help someone or prevent crime, then just do it.

 

[GutFeeling!]

I know this is awful but I can't get it out of my mind.

If the police are alleging that both crimes occurred in Brunswick -was it Jill's screams that the lady in the Turkish shop heard? Didn't she contact police, but they didn't respond?

It's just awful, so bloody awful.

There are so many "ifs" from the moment she sent a text to Tom.

and yeah, it is bloody awful, and just so sad. Ever since I saw the CCTV footage I have had flashbacks of her standing there, right in front of the door, all dressed up, ready for the weekend. Alive.

 

[DrWatson]

the Turkish shop is on the corner of Sydney and Hope.

The back of the restaurant is literally 30 minutes from the corner of Hope and Ovens (ovens is there her bag was found)

I have no doubt that woman heard Jill screaming. Shame on her for not going out there to investigate. If she did she would have saved Jills life.

Picky-picky alert - sorry in advance

The Turkish kebab place is one up from the corner, so sounds from AROUND the corner would be not quite as distinct as if the shop was right ON the corner. Small point, but relevant, I think.

Also I think you meant 30 metres, not 30 minutes (told you it was picky-picky), and that was to the laneway where Jill's handbag was found, just off Hope st, not Ovens St. You can get through to Ovens St via that laneway then turn right, but I'm fairly sure from the pictures that the handbag was found beside where that white car parks, only a few metres into the laneway off Hope St.

I suppose she could have run out there with a meat cleaver in her hand, and maybe the offender might have been scared off. But that's all "coulda, shoulda, woulda" stuff. The retrospectoscope at work again, unfortunately.

Sorry for the picky-picky... :blushing: