GUILTY Australia - Jill Meagher, 29, Melbourne, 22 Sep 2012 #4

[LegallyBrunette]

I wonder if they told the journalists that they were taking the accused to find Jill and they wanted it kept completely quiet. They might have told them exactly what they expected to find...

And up to that moment, there was still hope that she may be alive. Hearing how and where they found her would be more than nauseating. Let alone if she was a colleague.

 

[Fuskier]

Trust the jury to get it right in the Jill Meagher case by Justin Quill
October 03, 2012 12:00AM
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion...ill-meagher-case/story-e6frfhqf-1226486909719

 

[LegallyBrunette]

Trust the jury to get it right in the Jill Meagher case by Justin Quill
October 03, 2012 12:00AM
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion...ill-meagher-case/story-e6frfhqf-1226486909719

I read this article last night - it's very good isn't it.

 

[moreinfo]

Or a sexual assault gone wrong.

IMO dont believe this is the case b/c shovel wouldnt have been in the car, he knew how far he was going to take it this time hence, shovel at hand.

 

[Ausgirl]

Rape isn't about having a high sex drive. It's about a sick mind finding pleasure in the idea of dominating/controlling/hurting an unwilling human while getting off as a side benefit, and then lacking the personal control to resist making that fantasy real.

Serial rapists are inherently weak of character, that's why they have to assert themselves over someone - note how they don't often pick people who are bigger than they are, or strong enough to defend themselves. They pick on smaller women or kids, and they use fear and intimidation, because it makes them feel like a powerful person and not the majorly deficient creature they actually are.


^ Rant.

This case is just waaaay too close to home for me. I can't speak rationally about it.

 

[KG1]

I think you make a really good point, but at the same time, there are people out there with raging hormones who don't escalate to raping women.

And then there are those who go to prostitutes, which one would assume would 'fulfill' their need in that moment, yet still violently rape and assault the prostitute.

Only speculation, but in this case it's possible that Jill rejected his advances (who wouldn't), and AB could not accept the rejection, and thought he'd "show her". It may have been a case of anger towards her, not because he needed sex at that exact moment.

The intent was clear - otherwise why did he conveniently have a shovel? And presumably somewhere familiar to him to bury Jill.

 

[Love Coco]

How do we know that he didn't go back to his house to pick up the shovel?

How we you know what job he could have been working? Construction of some sort? Gardening? Some job that required him to have his own tools/supplies in his car? Just because he is trained/worked as a pastry chef in the past, doesn't mean that he continued in that profession. And for all we know he could have been at a friends house earlier, helping with the garden. The shovel, without more information, doesn't show intent to murder on it's own.

 

[DrWatson]

The intent was clear - otherwise why did he conveniently have a shovel? And presumably somewhere familiar to him to bury Jill.

It's only an assumption that the shovel was already in the car. And there are a number of reasons why it may have been.

Equally, there is the possibility that he called home (or somewhere else) to pick up a shovel, and that his car may have been one of the cars noticed by neighbours around 2am.

Or it may be that the whole thing WAS premeditated and was always intended to go as far as murder. Even to the point of having a burial site preselected.

These are details that we do not know, and that hopefully may come out as the court proceedings progress. Slowly though that is going to be...!

 

[MaxwellSmart]

Rape isn't about having a high sex drive. It's about a sick mind finding pleasure in the idea of dominating/controlling/hurting an unwilling human while getting off as a side benefit, and then lacking the personal control to resist making that fantasy real.

Serial rapists are inherently weak of character, that's why they have to assert themselves over someone - note how they don't often pick people who are bigger than they are, or strong enough to defend themselves. They pick on smaller women or kids, and they use fear and intimidation, because it makes them feel like a powerful person and not the majorly deficient creature they actually are.


^ Rant.

This case is just waaaay too close to home for me. I can't speak rationally about it.

This is from news.com.au...I feel like throwing up...

A MAN accused of sexually assaulting two elderly women in a regional NSW hospital at the weekend will remain in custody for at least another two weeks.
Antony Paul Hanney, 46, faced Wagga Local Court on Wednesday after being charged by police on Tuesday afternoon.
Police allege Hanney had sexual intercourse without consent with a 76-year-old woman as she lay in her hospital bed in Wagga Wagga's Calvary Hospital.
They allege he then went another room in the same wing and lifted up the gown of a 86-year-old woman, touching her through her underwear.
The offences allegedly occurred after 9pm on Sunday.
Hanney's Legal Aid solicitor requested a six-week adjournment for the matter to allow for the brief orders to be made by the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP), but requested the matter be brought back in two weeks for the court to hear a bail application.
Hanney sat silently in the dock during the short proceedings before magistrate Michael Antrum.
A formal plea is expected to be given on the matter in late November.


Read more: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-new...ed/story-e6frfku9-1226487042510#ixzz28ElkRTqV

 

[fruity]

After CCTV was used in Jill Meagher's case, the family of a 16 year old boy missing in Melbourne is hoping that CCTV will help them to find their son.

http://www.news.com.au/national/don...tion-to-find-him/story-fndo4cq1-1226487185012

 

[Walk A Mile]

I'm a white collar worker and I sometimes have a shovel in my car, and you'd be shocked at the number of murders I haven't committed.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

It's only an assumption that the shovel was already in the car. And there are a number of reasons why it may have been.

Equally, there is the possibility that he called home (or somewhere else) to pick up a shovel, and that his car may have been one of the cars noticed by neighbours around 2am.

Or it may be that the whole thing WAS premeditated and was always intended to go as far as murder. Even to the point of having a burial site preselected.

These are details that we do not know, and that hopefully may come out as the court proceedings progress. Slowly though that is going to be...!

Yes, if police had said something like 'he already had a shovel in the car', and suggested pre-meditation that would make sense, but simply saying 'he used his own shovel to bury' it's so open-ended, inane.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

I'm a white collar worker and I sometimes have a shovel in my car, and you'd be shocked at the number of murders I haven't committed.

I used to have a shovel and all kinds of ropes and implements in my car (when my horse was still alive :-( ] Mostly used shovel to dig out his stable after it flooded.

'Horses, God's gift to women

 

[LegallyBrunette]

This is from news.com.au...I feel like throwing up...

A MAN accused of sexually assaulting two elderly women in a regional NSW hospital at the weekend will remain in custody for at least another two weeks.
Antony Paul Hanney, 46, faced Wagga Local Court on Wednesday after being charged by police on Tuesday afternoon.
Police allege Hanney had sexual intercourse without consent with a 76-year-old woman as she lay in her hospital bed in Wagga Wagga's Calvary Hospital.
They allege he then went another room in the same wing and lifted up the gown of a 86-year-old woman, touching her through her underwear.
The offences allegedly occurred after 9pm on Sunday.
Read more: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-new...ed/story-e6frfku9-1226487042510#ixzz28ElkRTqV

News today said alleged offender entered the hospital sometime after 9pm 'through the security doors'.
Scoop - they didn't work.

 

[Berry]

The intent was clear - otherwise why did he conveniently have a shovel? And presumably somewhere familiar to him to bury Jill.

KG that "presumably somewhere familiar to him to bury Jill"....did I hear that or is that linked, I am sure I read it somewhere.

 

[Love Coco]

A journo who was very distressed had worked with Jill and knew her very well -Hamish Fitzsimmons from ABC., he was on Twitter with Ahron Young, bureau chief of SkyNews, relating events back to him. Ahron Young was the one saying, 'oh no, this isn't good guys'.

Yep, I read Hamish's tweets at the time. As well as Andrew Jaffrey's tweets which read:

"Police now addressing the media. The details are horrific"

"Tonight's news has made me physically sick. Being a journo can be a ***** of a job at times. Gunna hug my wife & kids hard when I get home"

 

[LegallyBrunette]

Sad news -a bit off topic but on point regarding locating people via their mobile.

http://www.news.com.au/national/wre...-it-went-missing/story-fncynjr2-1226486865551

THE search for a vintage plane missing with six people on board has ended tragically, with a crash site found near Lake Borumba south of Gympie.
A short time ago, helicopters involved in the search were stood down after an aircraft spotted a crash site near the dam, which is in rugged country south of Gympie.
The aircraft crash site was initially located using mobile phone technology - one of the mobiles on board was still operating - and then a helicopter crewman sighted the wreckage this afternoon.
The terrain was too rough for a helicopter to land in but the AGL Action Rescue chopper landed nearby and a medical team including doctor and paramedic are walking in.

 

[Angeline]

food for thought:

It is possible that blue hoodie took off after Jill was dismissing him at Duchess Boutique, ran to his car- parked there on Sydney road- so that Jill could see him get into his car and then drive off up Sydney road (north). Jill thought she was safe and the danger was gone. Then, maybe he turned into a side street left, came back down to Hope Street from the back route, and surprised her, jumped out and assaulted her.

Or he got into his car, drove south toward the city, then right onto Victoria street, and right again onto Percy St.- then found her somewhere on her way home in the dark side-streets/alleys and hit her and kidnapped her and promptly drove off.

Going back down south along Sydney road would have totally disarmed her because her mentality was to go north, and little did she think that he could do a right (victoria) and right (percy) and be right back to near where she was. She wouldn&#8217;t have suspected this as she&#8217;d be thinking he was gone- it&#8217;s just psychological short-sightedness that we all get from moment to moment. She would have been consumed with dealing with the immediate and present danger of his being right there; but as soon as he walked off, she switched off into &#8216;phew&#8217; mode and relaxed and walked home. I have a strong feeling something like this happened because it avoids the whole &#8216;how did he drag her into the dark alleys&#8217; problem (he never needed to because she indeed went there willingly- just walked there by herself!). It is at first counter-intuitive, but it is just the type of ploy a like this would use. Everyone is so fixated on the proximate moment, but if you forecast into the future a few mins, it is possible for him to skip into his car (maybe 15m up the road from Duchess Boutique), then do a u-turn, give Jill a friendly toot-toot with the horn on the way to the city- where he told her just a minute prior he was now headed- Jill waves goodbye and was now psychologically disarmed. He takes the victoria/percy route to end up right near her place somewhere at Lux Way, and encounters her somewhere around there. It solves all issues. So less is more. One step back (leaving her and driving off) to get two steps forward and be lying in wait for the ambush 5 mins later. Imagine how scared she would have been seeing that <modsnip> back in the side-streets. It would be like a bolt from the blue, given that she&#8217;d just dismissed the threat of him 5 mins prior. ****! This kind of a tactic is only possible by someone who has staked out this area thoroughly. I dare say police will be scouring months&#8217; worth of CCTV footage to see this <modsnip> prowling along the place.
Also, I believe he has used this area (and others besides) as his prowling ground so I think he knows these streets (and other hunting grounds) like the back of his hand and has staked out, stalked, monitored people along here, and maybe even Jill herself previously. <modsnip> So he has strategy and cunning up his sleeve.

RIP Jill. You are missed by many.

That's an interesting theory too. My thought was that after their encounter outside Duchess Boutique, he walked ahead of her and turned onto Hope Street as though he was going to leave her alone. She dawdled behind very slowly, speaking on her phone to allow for him to get a safe distance ahead (safe enough for her to pick up pace again.)

Your theory would explain why no-one seemed to hear/see anything unusual, even in the laneway where "Sally" the resident didn't notice anything suspicious (where the handbag was found).

I too think he had watched her before and knew her route home. I mean, how did he know she would turn onto Hope St? The other young lady in the article posted here mentioned that she had encountered a similar man twice over a matter of weeks, as though she was singled out.

The only other way he could know where Jill lived was if he had used his, "Someone's following you" spiel and she had accidentally said, "Oh, I'll be OK. I live just around the corner."

Personally, I think he'd been planning to murder for some time. The women who had encountered (what they believe) was the same offender, both said they were sure they would be killed (the backpacker and the aforementioned woman who was approached by him twice over the weeks.)

 

[truthound]

KG that "presumably somewhere familiar to him to bury Jill"....did I hear that or is that linked, I am sure I read it somewhere.

John Silvester reported that there was a link between the accused and the location of the victim's body, which will become apparent.


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[truthound]

That's an interesting theory too. My thought was that after their encounter outside Duchess Boutique, he walked ahead of her and turned onto Hope Street as though he was going to leave her alone. She dawdled behind very slowly, speaking on her phone to allow for him to get a safe distance ahead (safe enough for her to pick up pace again.)

Your theory would explain why no-one seemed to hear/see anything unusual, even in the laneway where "Sally" the resident didn't notice anything suspicious (where the handbag was found).

I too think he had watched her before and knew her route home. I mean, how did he know she would turn onto Hope St? The other young lady in the article posted here mentioned that she had encountered a similar man twice over a matter of weeks, as though she was singled out.

The only other way he could know where Jill lived was if he had used his, "Someone's following you" spiel and she had accidentally said, "Oh, I'll be OK. I live just around the corner."

Personally, I think he'd been planning to murder for some time. The women who had encountered (what they believe) was the same offender, both said they were sure they would be killed (the backpacker and the aforementioned woman who was approached by him twice over the weeks.)

I think he intended to murder. MOO.

It seems too much of a coincidence that he targeted women who had foreign accents. I suspect that he figured they weren't from Melbourne, were less likely to have a strong social network in Melbourne, and would take longer to be missed.

Jmho.


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