GUILTY Australia - Jill Meagher, 29, Melbourne, 22 Sep 2012 #4

[LegallyBrunette]

It doesn't sound like that has washed with the police.

Alleged offender will still be able to play that card when pleading. Or one of a couple of others in the pack.

 

[aust amateur slueth]

See the post right before yours where he is accused of beating up his girlfriend. This is the only info I can find:

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/man-stabbed-to-death-in-gosford-20121001-26u86.html

Has someone posted proof that he was beating her up? If not, he's been assumed to be asking for it.

The only time I saw Tom Meagher suspected was after the bag was found, and the search of the apartment began. At least that was evidence based, even if completely incorrect.

that article had nothing about him beating her up.

This article also says nothing about him beating her up and is the article I based my comment on

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...cooking-sausages/story-e6freuy9-1226485945237

 

[keyleigh]

LB, wasn't Murdoch arrested in S.A. and taken back to NT for trial because it was the NT that the offence happened in. No other reason.

Yes he was arrested in S.A. The crimes were committed in the NT and the case was held in the NT.

There isn't any way they could hold this case elsewhere now- Victoria is the only place that technically hasn't seen all the press.

 

[The Unfortunate Ms M]

Great. Now a link to prove your claim that he was beating her up and deserved to be stabbed?

The way I read your statement "I don't know the facts of the case so I don't know if that's true or not, but why is that assumption allowed when if anyone (wrongly) assumed the same about Jill"

was that hypothetically, if we knew Gosford man to have beating up his girlfriend, and hypothetically some people's assumptions about Jill were true, then they would be equivalent.

I have no info on whether Gosford man was an abuser or not, and make no assumption that he was. But if he was, then that is not 'innocent' whereas even if Jill was the most promiscuous of women, she would still 'innocent' because promiscuity is neither criminal nor unethical

 

[Brunswick_Kiwi]

that article had nothing about him beating her up.

This article also says nothing about him beating her up and is the article I based my comment on

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...cooking-sausages/story-e6freuy9-1226485945237

Yep, so no evidence that she acted in self-defence.

 

[Brunswick_Kiwi]

The way I read your statement "I don't know the facts of the case so I don't know if that's true or not, but why is that assumption allowed when if anyone (wrongly) assumed the same about Jill"

was that hypothetically, if we knew Gosford man to have beating up his girlfriend, and hypothetically some people's assumptions about Jill were true, then they would be equivalent.

I have no info on whether Gosford man was an abuser or not, and make no assumption that he was. But if he was, then that is not 'innocent' whereas even if Jill was the most promiscuous of women, she would still 'innocent' because promiscuity is neither criminal nor unethical

That wasn't my intent. I really just meant that victim blaming should be frowned upon no matter what (until there is evidence they are not actually a victim).

 

[LegallyBrunette]

Yes he was arrested in S.A. The crimes were committed in the NT and the case was held in the NT.

There isn't any way they could hold this case elsewhere now- Victoria is the only place that technically hasn't seen all the press.

It can also be that there is so much local anger and malice towards the accused, notwithstanding media reports being censored in the relevant area. Not necessarily just related to jurors being aware of any priors and general background of accused. All other details are still in Vic media and as evidenced by yesterday's march, emotions are high. In NSW and other states everything about AB is out there and nobody is demonstrating or marching. Of course it's all over talkback etc, people expressing their sadness, disgust with system, everything, but not the reactions you will see in a community connected to the victim and/or crime where it naturally feels more personal.

 

[BreakingNews]

Yes he was arrested in S.A. The crimes were committed in the NT and the case was held in the NT.

There isn't any way they could hold this case elsewhere now- Victoria is the only place that technically hasn't seen all the press.

Thanks Keyleigh, and welcome.

The trial has to be in the state/territory where the offence occurred and the laws of that state/territory apply. Occasionally here in Queensland a crime in a regional area may or may not be moved to Brisbane in order to get a more unbiased jury.

The murder trial I was on was committed 100km away, but everyone knew about it anyway. I'm in a large regional city.:moo:

 

[BreakingNews]

It can also be that there is so much local anger and malice towards the accused, notwithstanding media reports being censored in the relevant area. Not necessarily just related to jurors being aware of any priors and general background of accused. All other details are still in Vic media and as evidenced by yesterday's march, emotions are high. In NSW and other states everything about AB is out there and nobody is demonstrating or marching. Of course it's all over talkback etc, people expressing their sadness, disgust with system, everything, but not the reactions you will see in a community connected to the victim and/or crime where it naturally feels more personal.

LB, a lot has been blocked out of media in other states also.

The trial has to be held in state/territory where the crime was committed, regardless of public outpouring.

He can plead guilty and avoid a trial. Just go straight to sentencing.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

LB, a lot has been blocked out of media in other states also.

The trial has to be held in state/territory where the crime was committed, regardless of public outpouring.

He can plead guilty and avoid a trial. Just go straight to sentencing.

Thank you, I'm aware of all the above. Yes, he could plead guilty, but until the committal that is unknown. If the social media deluge persists the proceedings may not get to a plea. Can't speak for other states but NSW media has everything out there. Only restrictions have been some radio talkback which is broadcast interstate have warned what they can't discuss because the program is transmitted in Vic as well.

 

[Brunswick_Kiwi]

LB, a lot has been blocked out of media in other states also.

The trial has to be held in state/territory where the crime was committed, regardless of public outpouring.

He can plead guilty and avoid a trial. Just go straight to sentencing.

I really hope that is what happens

 

[FruitTingles]

And his children.

Agreed! His partner is an innocent victim, along with his kids and the rest of his family & friends.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

He doesn't have any flat mates as he's in solitary. If he was in another state he could opt for a judge-alone trial. Victoria doesn't yet have that option . It has happened many times where pre-trial publicity meant little chance of a jury not being 'infected'.

 

[FruitTingles]

Gosford man?

 

[LegallyBrunette]

Agreed! His partner is an innocent victim, along with his kids and the rest of his family & friends.

Not to mention the poor landlady.

 

[The Unfortunate Ms M]

and that action is taken to ensure that this never ever happens again!
LeoBear

Yeah... but most people's idea of 'action' seems to be about prison/sentencing/parole.

Honestly I think if we want to prevent rape we have to look at the way we raise boys, the way women are portrayed in film and advertising, the way men talk to each other about women when women aren't around...

How many of the people who condemn what happened to Jill have laughed at a friend's rape joke? Think about the recent issue with comedian Tosh.0, where he made a joke about how a female audience member should be gang-raped - and when she made a fuss, a lot of people accused her of having no sense of humour. Well chances are one or more people in the audience was a rapist, and that's what he's hearing...

If you hear a male friend talk about how <modsnip> a woman is in a casual disrespectful way, do you say anything or do you keep quiet?

 

[marlywings]

Ok everyone. I'm going back through the last few pages & will be removing posts. Please read & adhere to Salem's following post which is located on first page of this thread.

Jill has been found and returned to her family and a suspect has been arrested for her rape and murder.

Australia has rules about public discussion of the suspect and its impact on the judicial process. WS, while governed under the laws of the U.S., respects the laws of other countries, especially when it comes to ensuring a fair trial process.

RULES FOR THIS CASE DISCUSSION:

Any publication which prejudices the course of justice - A report of a court case which gives details of the defendant's previous criminal convictions, before the end of the trial, would be contempt. This is because it may prejudice the judge, magistrate or jury against the defendant, if there are many previous convictions. This would reduce the chances of a fair trial. Previous convictions (often called antecedents) may not be revealed until after the verdict has been reached. They are then considered by the court to help it to decide on an appropriate punishment.

http://www.thenewsmanual.net/Resources/medialaw_in_australia_03.html

Bottom line: NO DISCUSSION OF THE SUSPECT'S PAST CRIMINAL ACTIVITY, IF ANY.

NO PICTURES OF THE SUSPECT ARE TO BE POSTED. All pictures have been removed from MSM and the suspect's face has been blocked out. His facebook has been pulled and is no longer available. We will honor that here at WS.

NO DISCUSSION OF THE SUSPECT'S PAST LIFE, IN GENERAL. No discussion of where he previously lived, worked, or spent time. No discussion of his family or friends or other innocent people that have nothing to do with this case.

At this link: http://www.thenewsmanual.net/Resources/sub_judice_chart_01.html

There is a color coded chart that shows what can and cannot be discussed during this pretrial/trial period. The Mods will use it for reference when deciding what posts to leave/remove - however, the Mods will also use their own discretion and it will NOT BE UP FOR ARGUMENT, even if it is not on this chart.


If you have questions or concerns, please pm a mod or alert the post. Do not post it in the threads.

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Thanks,

The Mod Squad.

 

[Couldbe]

Yeah... but most people's idea of 'action' seems to be about prison/sentencing/parole.

Honestly I think if we want to prevent rape we have to look at the way we raise boys, the way women are portrayed in film and advertising, the way men talk to each other about women when women aren't around...

How many of the people who condemn what happened to Jill have laughed at a friend's rape joke? Think about the recent issue with comedian Tosh.0, where he made a joke about how a female audience member should be gang-raped - and when she made a fuss, a lot of people accused her of having no sense of humour. Well chances are one or more people in the audience was a rapist, and that's what he's hearing...

If you hear a male friend talk about how <modsnip> a woman is in a casual disrespectful way, do you say anything or do you keep quiet?

I believe rape is all about 'power'....... useful for a man to exercise 'power' over himself ..... instead of directing it towards a woman (in fact towards anybody else at all). Surely this doesn't have to be considered idealistic; but self-discipline is a real problem.

 

[catswhiskers]

Power and violence.

 

[FruitTingles]

Ok everyone. I'm going back through the last few pages & will be removing posts. Please read & adhere to Salem's following post which is located on first page of this thread.

Thanks. And good job