GUILTY Australia - Jill Meagher, 29, Melbourne, 22 Sep 2012 #4

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  • #381
Just some quick questions to fellow Sleuths. I’m trying to get my head around the chain of events leading up to this horrible crime.

In the CCTV footage from the dress shop, we see AB pass "in a hurry" to the left (towards Hope Street) early in the footage. He then returns again, passing back to the right, several minutes later, at a more casual pace.

We later see AB and JM enter the frame together from the right.

There is also purportedly footage of JM passing an art gallery, with AB following behind. Do we know the location of the gallery in relation to the dress shop?

What I am trying to understand is:

Did AB pass by JM between the gallery and the dress shop (where he hurried past on his own)? If so, did they interact at that point? i.e. prior to the dress shop? Did he pass her by, see that she was alone/vulnerable, and hurry ahead to plan an attack? Or did he engage her in some way, and the subsequent exchange was all the more uncomfortable for JM because he had clearly returned?

Or did he simply get a notion of the direction she was travelling, went ahead to move a car, or obtain a weapon? Or was he simply scoping for a “quiet place”.

Was it pure chance (and awful, awful luck for JM) that AB happened to be parked in a location on Hope Street? The time he takes to hurry by and subsequently return, as shown on the dress shop CCTV, is too short for him to go any further than Hope Street (< 2 min). Or did he know her intended travel path?

I&#8217;m also trying to work out what was said between them outside the dress shop. AB clearly puts his hand up to the side of her face when they are in the right side of the frame. This does not support the notion that he is &#8220;offering to escort her safely&#8221; or that &#8220;someone is following you&#8221;.

He seems to either be &#8220;hitting on her&#8221; or &#8220;threatening her&#8221;. She is clearly uncomfortable in his presence. I know it is all guesswork, but I&#8217;m trying to reconcile her reaction to, and subsequent actions (e.g. phone call to brother, continuing her walk home, not calling her husband) in response to, her interactions with AB.

I am thinking JM would only turn down Hope Street if she thought the &#8220;danger&#8221; had passed. Or was she just &#8220;uncomfortable&#8221; rather than &#8220;in fear&#8221;. i.e. he propositioned her, rather than threatened her.

Does anyone have a theory? Sadly, the only person who knows, is AB.
 
  • #382
.

We're starting to stray too far off topic hence I've removed some posts.

Please stay on topic. The discussion is about the Jill Meagher case
.
 
  • #383
When I originally put the site up about the Metropolitan Remand centre, in answer to someones query re Mr.Bayley's days, I thought about pasting up the entire thing.. it was so .. so.. . gobsmacking.. I rethought it thru and decided not to.

<snipped>
I'm not sure if they intended for him to be at MRC until January, or if it was just temporary. However, he was transferred to MAP, due to fears for his safety.

http://www.news.com.au/national/as-...-accuseds-safety/story-fndo4cq1-1226484920926
 
  • #384
Just some quick questions to fellow Sleuths. I’m trying to get my head around the chain of events leading up to this horrible crime.

In the CCTV footage from the dress shop, we see AB pass "in a hurry" to the left (towards Hope Street) early in the footage. He then returns again, passing back to the right, several minutes later, at a more casual pace.

We later see AB and JM enter the frame together from the right.

There is also purportedly footage of JM passing an art gallery, with AB following behind. Do we know the location of the gallery in relation to the dress shop?

What I am trying to understand is:

Did AB pass by JM between the gallery and the dress shop (where he hurried past on his own)? If so, did they interact at that point? i.e. prior to the dress shop? Did he pass her by, see that she was alone/vulnerable, and hurry ahead to plan an attack? Or did he engage her in some way, and the subsequent exchange was all the more uncomfortable for JM because he had clearly returned?

Or did he simply get a notion of the direction she was travelling, went ahead to move a car, or obtain a weapon? Or was he simply scoping for a “quiet place”.

Was it pure chance (and awful, awful luck for JM) that AB happened to be parked in a location on Hope Street? The time he takes to hurry by and subsequently return, as shown on the dress shop CCTV, is too short for him to go any further than Hope Street (< 2 min). Or did he know her intended travel path?

<snipped>

Does anyone have a theory? Sadly, the only person who knows, is AB.
As I've said previously, I don't know Melbourne and my knowledge only comes from online reading.

I understand that the art gallery, where there is footage showing a man in a blue hoodie a few metres behind a brunette lady, is 300 metres to the south of Duchess Bridal. So yes, he passed in front of her in order to be ahead of her in his first appearance in the CCTV.

I have seen references to pizza shop CCTV which shows him running after her. That footage, if it exists, was taken south of the art shop, but I can't remember how far away it is. 100m? 300m? Can someone else remember? The pizza shop CCTV was pointed north along Sydney Road, so Jill would have been walking away from it as she walked towards the art gallery and Duchess Bridal.

My personal opinion, based on nothing but speculation, is that it was pure coincidence that he parked in a laneway off Hope Street. I don't believe he stalked her beforehand, I think it was random and opportunistic, and when he followed her for a while he realised that she was probably going to go past the Hope Street intersection so he raced ahead to get a weapon. At most, perhaps he was at the pub and overheard a detail, then drove to the laneway off Hope Street. Maybe. I don't think they'd ever met or interacted before that night. The police have confirmed that it was random and opportunistic, so I think he was prowling around that night, waiting for a victim.

Although they pause right at the left edge of the CCTV (I think Jill was ringing her brother) I think the man in the blue hoodie walked away, then hid just around the corner of Hope and Sydney Streets, knowing that Jill would walk past soon. I believe he darted back onto Sydney road and grabbed her, and this is captured on CCTV footage that the police have not released to the public. I also think that this is the scream that the woman in Alaysa is purported to have heard.

Perhaps he used the "someone is following you" line. Jill did look over her shoulder during the CCTV.

I'm probably wrong, there are a lot of variables, and I don't know anything about this case except from reading MSM and here at WebSleuths. I am very sure that there's a lot more to it than anyone except the accused and the police know about.

:moo:
 
  • #385
Has anyone else noticed that on the Duchess Boutique footage, right at the beginning when those two people (one holding a white plate or something in their hand) walk to the right, while blue hoodie walks by from the right, well just as he enters frame, at the precise moment he is seen between the two mannequins on the right, blue hoodie seems to be actually taking off the hood of his jacket. That is, he seems to have been wearing the hood on his head before he arrived at Duchess Boutique, and just as he arrived right at that precise point, he takes off the hood from his head. I am not sure if that is correct, but it appears that way to me. I initially thought he was taking off a light coloured beanie, because there is a frame in the shot where there is a bright white-ish flash behind his head, which appears to be as if he is taking off some beanie. I now think it is the hood of his jacket he is throwing back off his head. If this is true, it would mean he was wearing a hood at some point south of Duchess Boutique. What do people think?
 
  • #386
  • #387
The organiser of a peace march in honour of murdered ABC employee Jill Meagher in Melbourne's Brunswick suburb says it was a march in support of the values we hold dear, like kindness and positivity.
Phillip Werner says one of the most pleasing aspects of the community's response was to see Brunswick's eclectic mix of people support a single cause.
"It was great to see the Brunswick scruffies and grungy people at the candlelight vigil, and it shows everybody cares and it goes beyond stereotypes," he said.

http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/2012/10/02/3601865.htm
 
  • #388
  • #389
Jill Meagher's remains bound for Perth as police search for more evidence
Anthony Dowsley, Wayne Flower, Herald Sun, October 02, 20122:12PM

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...-last-seen-alive/story-e6frf7kx-1226486124892

From that link:

t comes as police and emergency service vehicles are combing roadsides on the outskirts of Melbourne, searching for evidence in the death.

About five emergency service vehicles, including police quad bikes, scoured Vineyard Rd this afternoon, travelling west towards the Gisborne South site where Ms Meagher's body was found last week.

They left from a base at Diggers Rest football oval shortly after 12.30pm.

Wonder what they're looking for? Phone, maybe, thrown out of the car window en route? Or the SIM? Bit of a needle in a haystack job, I think - but hopefully they find what they're looking for.
 
  • #390
  • #391
http://sunbury-leader.whereilive.co...esume-hunt-for-clues-in-death-of-jill-meagher
Police resume hunt for clues in death of Jill Meagher
2 OCT 12 @ 01:14PM BY LIAM MCALEER AND BARRY KENNEDY

About five emergency service vehicles, including police quad bikes slowly tracking Gisborne South roadsides, believed to be searching for evidence...scoured Vineyard Rd this afternoon, travelling west towards the Gisborne South site where Ms Meagher&#8217;s body was found last week.
 
  • #392
  • #393
And even for those who DO have payTV here in Australia - was that shown here?

I watched a fair bit of the trial on FOX News. From memory CNN also aired it here too. Once the verdict was out it exploded over all the Australian news sites, but before that they didn't do in depth coverage.
 
  • #394
http://sunbury-leader.whereilive.co...esume-hunt-for-clues-in-death-of-jill-meagher
Police resume hunt for clues in death of Jill Meagher
2 OCT 12 @ 01:14PM BY LIAM MCALEER AND BARRY KENNEDY

About five emergency service vehicles, including police quad bikes slowly tracking Gisborne South roadsides, believed to be searching for evidence...scoured Vineyard Rd this afternoon, travelling west towards the Gisborne South site where Ms Meagher’s body was found last week.

I wonder if that includes her ABC bag and phone/SIM?
 
  • #395
Samantha Knight was the first abduction I really paid attention to as a kid. We were around the same age, and I remember looking out of the car window everywhere I went, trying to see her. If we were driving out of town I'd look into the bush to see if I could see anything.

I was hoping that Kiesha Weippeart would be on the list.

It was Sian Kingi for me (although she isn't on the list either) - likewise, she was the same age as me and we were on holidays at the coast when she went missing. I prayed they would find her but even at that young age I remember knowing something was awfully wrong and it wasn't likely to end well. I was distraught when she was found :(
 
  • #396
OK - thanks for the info Marly and others. I guess the case must have just passed me by, as I really wasn't aware of it before.

It's only recently that I've had a bit more time work-wise to get more involved with the Baden-Clay case (being very close to home) and now the Jill Meagher case. Prior to that, life was a blur of work and sleep, with 18-hour days and on-call the rest of the time.

I must bring myself up to speed on that Anthony case, as many have referred to it.

If this is in reference to the Casey Anthony case, you shouldn't waste your time, it is sickening the outcome and it's a "done deal" so I wouldn't bother...Biggest case (almost) of injustice ever....Gotta love the "justice system" at it's finest...
 
  • #397
We don't have cable or pay TV, so hadn't really heard of the case apart from glimpses on Google News etc. We're not big TV watchers (careers are not all that conducive to TV watching) anyway, so not worth getting payTV.

And even for those who DO have payTV here in Australia - was that shown here?

I (in Aus) watch the US court cases online, not on tv. Many of them are streamed live online - only thing is - you have to get up at times like midnight or 3 am to watch!

I do, though, because, as mentioned before, it is intriguing.
 
  • #398
I watched the Casey Anthony trial all the way through, and I also watched quite a bit of the jury selection, which was protracted, as the prosecution was calling for the death penalty as the sentence, if convicted.
I was astounded and amazed at the procedure and in this case the jury pool was selected from a neighbouring county to try and obtain a jury that was not biased or as exposed as the population in Orange county when the crime occurred. It was a very long process and very probing in relation to the individuals. My personal opinion, regardless of how one feels or believes, is that this jury did its job well - it relied on the evidence presented and passed verdict accordingly. Much of the scientific evidence in that case was new and novel and untested by the peers of those providing the evidence. Special death penalty lawyers were brought in to assess and question prospective jurors and the selection went on for weeks. Very different from Australia and I would not like that system to be adopted here. I don't know whether the same system applies to non death penalty cases in the US. Perhaps someone can enlighten us.

It is handled the same, all potential jury members are questioned to some degree BUT given how aware the public was of CA it was MUCH more intense than a normal jury would be subjected to.
 
  • #399
I (in Aus) watch the US court cases online, not on tv. Many of them are streamed live online - only thing is - you have to get up at times like midnight or 3 am to watch!

I do, though, because, as mentioned before, it is intriguing.

MoonFlwr,
That's funny. I dont find our system to intriguing, (mostly about money, best attorney, etc. OJ is a good example, not right or wrong) though y'alls would be to me :)
 
  • #400
http://sunbury-leader.whereilive.co...esume-hunt-for-clues-in-death-of-jill-meagher
Police resume hunt for clues in death of Jill Meagher
2 OCT 12 @ 01:14PM BY LIAM MCALEER AND BARRY KENNEDY

About five emergency service vehicles, including police quad bikes slowly tracking Gisborne South roadsides, believed to be searching for evidence...scoured Vineyard Rd this afternoon, travelling west towards the Gisborne South site where Ms Meagher’s body was found last week.

Interesting, thanks for posting. They must be looking for something larger than the SIM, surely. No point speculating because we ain't gonna be told right now :-)
 
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