GUILTY Australia - Jill Meagher, 29, Melbourne, 22 Sep 2012 #4

[mister2]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone_tracking#section_1

Not sure if this will help, but it explains how mobile phone's are traced. I'm currently very curious as to how they traced her phone and what actually happened with it and the sim card etc.

It is possible but I doubt that is actually what was used as it requires the phone is to be on - and needs very specific network hardware which Vodafone made a big deal about not having in the last couple of months when new location-specific emergency broadcast rules were being discussed for things like bushfires.

I think the more likely alternative is around the way networks trace phone for normal calls.

When a phone a is switched on, it establishes a connection to 1 cell tower and is referenced to both the SIM data and the phone ID. I doubt this is stored so no good once the phone is off.

As phones move around the current cell tower is traced. Also I doubt this is stored except for whatever the current cell tower is - again no good after the phone is turned off.

Finally when a SIM is removed or phone is switched off, the last tower is recorded and retained. Search "IMSI Detach" process for reference.

So I think the only historical data recorded for a de-activated phone (except actual actual/text usage) is the last cell tower location. This fits with the media reports of SIM being removed and hone being located.

The other option is the phone was switched back on without the SIM.

 

[Trooper]

Pastry chefs
http://www.reluctantgourmet.com/pastry_chef.htm
To be a good pastry chef, you need an understanding of the scientific principles behind your craft.* You’ll be using perishable and fragile foods and will need to understand the biology of food safety.* There’s a chemical basis for the way certain foods are combined.* You need a good understanding of nutrition and of human physiology.* You also need to know the basics of design—how to create visually appealing desserts.*

and dont forget, keep a shovel in your boot at all times.. it's the tool of choice for the comitted pastry chef, :rocker: ( I'll get my coat now )

 

[LeoBear]

Do we know when JM was killed? I think I read somewhere that it was shortly after the CCTV video but I'm wondering how they know that. Is there anyone medical who can talk to time of death? All the "expertise" I have on this is from CSI Miami & the impression I get is that they can only get an approximation from the body ie., but there is a great deal of uncertainty about it because you have to take into account temperature, type of injury etc. Or do they know from the suspect?

 

[mister2]

Now men who hate women, by definition, do not care what women think. That is why only men can speak to them. I'm not suggesting you, as a man, are responsible for what awful men do - but you are the only one who can help. Women can't, because rapists don't care about women.

on the 6% rapists stat, it typically breaks down into:
- 5% is using alcohol or drugs, almost all by known by the victim and typically around 3/4 with some prior physical interaction
- 1% is rape by force

I think that is big assumption to make ... I don't think it is that stereotypical rapist 'hate' women but they have a more general lack of empathy/respect for all people. I quite frankly think men are just as helpless with these psychos.

That certainly makes this case atypical compared to the more typical 'date rape' scenario. Still 1% is shockingly high implying 1 in 100 women are sexual assaulted by strangers.

Likewise I found the 1 in 20 'date rape' type scenario also shocking and maybe this is one area where guys can 'educate' other guys.

 

[DrWatson]

Do we know when JM was killed? I think I read somewhere that it was shortly after the CCTV video but I'm wondering how they know that. Is there anyone medical who can talk to time of death? All the "expertise" I have on this is from CSI Miami & the impression I get is that they can only get an approximation from the body ie., but there is a great deal of uncertainty about it because you have to take into account temperature, type of injury etc. Or do they know from the suspect?

They would not be able to determine the time of death from the body accurately after several days, and being in a shallow grave. They would be able to give an estimate that is perhaps accurate to a day or so, but certainly not to the hour, or even a range of a few hours.

The TOD would be determined more by the CCTV times, the phonecall times, the missed call times, and most likely the confession.

 

[marlywings]

October 03, 2012

JILL Meagher's family has written about their loss in a touching tribute to her.
In it, parents George and Edith and brother Michael write of the pain of losing their daughter and sister.
"It's hard to be apart from you. So many of our thoughts are with you," it reads.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...-meaghers-family/story-e6frf7kx-1226486888941

 

[LeoBear]

I thought, and swear that I read somewhere that JM's phone may have been traced to AB's house just prior to his arrest?

That may be why he started to "cooperate" with the police. Pretty hard to say it got there by mistake

 

[LeoBear]

They would not be able to determine the time of death from the body accurately after several days, and being in a shallow grave. They would be able to give an estimate that is perhaps accurate to a day or so, but certainly not to the hour, or even a range of a few hours.

The TOD would be determined more by the CCTV times, the phonecall times, the missed call times, and most likely the confession.

So, what I'm getting is that they don't know where or when she was killed. Here's my problem. If JM was killed in the streets between Sydney Rd & her home, wouldn't there have been a crime scene that included signs of a struggle & - my apologies for being graphic - blood? But we've heard nothing to this effect. I think it is a strong possibility that the car is the crime scene - not the street. I think we can totally discount him driving 50 k and then killing her. That doesn't make sense.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

So, what I'm getting is that they don't know where or when she was killed. Here's my problem. If JM was killed in the streets between Sydney Rd & her home, wouldn't there have been a crime scene that included signs of a struggle & - my apologies for being graphic - blood? But we've heard nothing to this effect. I think it is a strong possibility that the car is the crime scene - not the street. I think we can totally discount him driving 50 k and then killing her. That doesn't make sense.

I think it was the car.

 

[Berry]

They would not be able to determine the time of death from the body accurately after several days, and being in a shallow grave. They would be able to give an estimate that is perhaps accurate to a day or so, but certainly not to the hour, or even a range of a few hours.

The TOD would be determined more by the CCTV times, the phonecall times, the missed call times, and most likely the confession.

"Mr Bayley had appeared at an out of sessions court hearing about 2.30am, charged with rape and murder in Brunswick on September 22."

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/ji...-rape-and-murder/story-e6frf7jo-1226483402629

IMO the perp told them when in his confession hence the rape and murder charge stating location as Brunswick.

 

[GutFeeling!]

Why do you say "Not by Jill"?

Perhaps the records were used to establish the exact time and duration of the calls that Jill DID make, to confirm what her family said, and to try to narrow down the window of time in which the attack took place? Also to coordinate the times with those on the CCTV records they got?

Also, the unanswered calls from her brother and from Tom would have been logged as missed calls, so that information would suggest the other side of that time window.

They may also have records as to WHEN the SIM card was removed?

Plus the location services, etc...

I said not Jill because they made mention of calls made and we know that Jill called her brother (which I am sure would have been proven straight away - he was not suspected being in Perth). then they say the SIM card was removed, we know Jill wasn't answering. I understand that missed calls and all could be verified but I took their comment "to see calls made" as being specific to that.

 

[Curiousasacat]

Pastry chefs
http://www.reluctantgourmet.com/pastry_chef.htm
To be a good pastry chef, you need an understanding of the scientific principles behind your craft.* You’ll be using perishable and fragile foods and will need to understand the biology of food safety.* There’s a chemical basis for the way certain foods are combined.* You need a good understanding of nutrition and of human physiology.* You also need to know the basics of design—how to create visually appealing desserts.*

I mean no offence to pastry chefs but I have spent most of my career in hotels and my friends and I always used to joke how weird pastry chefs are. They(in my experience) are different people and we never understood why but there is just something different about them.

All MOO and a bit of generalization....

 

[GutFeeling!]

So, what I'm getting is that they don't know where or when she was killed. Here's my problem. If JM was killed in the streets between Sydney Rd & her home, wouldn't there have been a crime scene that included signs of a struggle & - my apologies for being graphic - blood? But we've heard nothing to this effect. I think it is a strong possibility that the car is the crime scene - not the street. I think we can totally discount him driving 50 k and then killing her. That doesn't make sense.

Sometimes there is no blood, strangulation for example

 

[LeoBear]

"Mr Bayley had appeared at an out of sessions court hearing about 2.30am, charged with rape and murder in Brunswick on September 22."

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/ji...-rape-and-murder/story-e6frf7jo-1226483402629

IMO the perp told them when in his confession hence the rape and murder charge stating location as Brunswick.

Thanks. And that is exactly my point!

 

[LeoBear]

Sometimes there is no blood, strangulation for example

I agree but that does not fit with unconfirmed reports that even seasoned journalists threw up when they heard details of the crime.

 

[GutFeeling!]

I agree but that does not fit with unconfirmed reports that even seasoned journalists threw up when they heard details of the crime.

A strangulation can be a very cruel way to kill someone, it can be slow and painful and all the time you can be looking in your killers eyes.

You'd be surprised what can break a seasoned journo or cop or medical examiner or doctor .... it could have just been the mention of rape because then it goes from a murder to a violation and a murder.

There are a million scenarios all of them pure speculation for now.

 

[Maigret]

A strangulation can be a very cruel way to kill someone, it can be slow and painful and all the time you can be looking in your killers eyes.

You'd be surprised what can break a seasoned journo or cop or medical examiner or doctor .... it could have just been the mention of rape because then it goes from a murder to a violation and a murder.

There are a million scenarios all of them pure speculation for now.

I think also that the journos knew Jill and thus took it more personally she was such a little thing too

 

[GutFeeling!]

I think also that the journos knew Jill and thus took it more personally she was such a little thing too

Good point, I can't begin to imagine having to do a story on a colleague.

 

[KG1]

They would not be able to determine the time of death from the body accurately after several days, and being in a shallow grave. They would be able to give an estimate that is perhaps accurate to a day or so, but certainly not to the hour, or even a range of a few hours.

The TOD would be determined more by the CCTV times, the phonecall times, the missed call times, and most likely the confession.

As AB was charged with rape and murder at Brunswick on 22/9/2012, it is very likely that her time of death can be narrowed pretty easily. It was mentioned in MSN that his vehicle was detected on a tollway/freeway, when he was on the way to Gisborne South to bury the body. Therefore the window would be a time between the last CCT footage of Jill and the first detection of the vehicle travelling. This may also be narrowed down further via phone tracing of both his phone and her phone. These extraneous matters, together with any confesion by AB would give a pretty good idea of time of death, likely within an hour. This information is likely to tally with estimates of time of death ascertained from the body. MOO

 

[FruitTingles]

I am heading to Melbourne next Wednesday to take my partner to the hospital and I am planning on making a detour to pay tribute to Jill with two bunches of flowers, one being from this group if you are all ok with that of course.