GUILTY Australia - Jill Meagher, 29, Melbourne, 22 Sep 2012 #5

[Paulie11]

I seriously doubt Police are making up the charges.. they would have forensic evidence that he did rape her in all three ways, if that is there charges- an autopsy was performed. And at this stage as its a committal hearing I am not sure all that evidence will be known to all who were in court yet. You would believe the accused in his denials, but not the police? He is also denying killing Jill, and yet he has previously admitted it and was able to take police to where her body was buried..

I don't see why Bayley would be denying 2 of the 3 rape charges if all 3 charges were iron-clad. He is denying the murder charge because he can claim he is a rapist, though not a murderer- the murder happened as he was trying to shut her up from screaming, though in 'shutting her up', he can claim, he applied too much pressure and she passed out and never regained consciousness; so it was some form of negligent homicide, lacking in intent to kill. How are you going to refute that? You simply cannot- it is possible; though i guess the question boils down to what is reasonable; that is, what is probably to have transpired at the time, something we can discern from past behaviour patterns (that go to character), which is where previous history of offending (if any) comes in. If you ask me, it is not clear to me at all that- at the outset- he intended to kill her, though he definitely intended to rape her. I think it began as a rape and somehow morphed into a murder after she communicated to him somehow that she has seen his face 'out there on sydney road' and can now identify him, which is precisely the prosecution's case. So at that point, the intent to kill her was formulated. This is most probably what happened. It is still possible, however, that he tried to keep her quiet, but in doing so accidentally killed her. I am not sure which happened. I think it is kind of irrelevant which it actually was as he should not ever be released, and the rest is mere semantics- important, though ultimately indecipherable.

 

[gallaggr]

It takes a couple of minutes after a person loses consciousness to then in turn kill them. Jill would have become unconscious and Bayley would have had to continue exerting pressure in order to kill her I think? we have a case in Japan at the moment where a young Irish girl was killed and the defendant claimed he exerted 'a light pressure on her neck' but the doctors said that this isn't possible that it takes a couple of minutes after a person loses their consciousness to strangle them....
I personally believe the prosecutions claim that he had intent to kill, after the incident with the dutch backpacker he would not want to be identified again. Plus according to this article he admitted he took his anger at his girlfriend out on Jill
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...new-cctv-footage/story-fnat79vb-1226595956235

I pray so much for her family, that is proof that there is pure evil in this world....

 

[Alice Bernadette]

All that footage of Jill is haunting. She is obviously just so oblivious to the danger. It is hard to look at because you know what is going to happen to her. They also show so much of Bayley's movements. Amazing amount of footage.

Eerie and chilling.

 

[Paulie11]

Bayley later told detectives: "I actually apologised. I can't imagine how she felt but I know how I felt. All I thought was, 'What have I done?' "
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...new-cctv-footage/story-fnat79vb-1226595956235

WTF!
He raped her. Apologised to her for raping her? Then strangled her? This **** is ****ed in the head.

 

[SSS]

they also breifly showed some footage of this car coming and going. I haven't managed to see it online anywhere.

The car can be seen leaving at 0:59 here:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-03-12/meagher-accused-killer-pleads-guilty-to-rape/4568432

It turns right out of the laneway onto Ovens Street towards Hope St. Looking at street view, it appears the camera is actually about 15-20 metres South of the laneway on Ovens Street above the green roller door where the phone line comes in from the power pole. You can see the window ledge just below the camera in the footage.

 

[Paulie11]

A transcript of Mr Bayley's interview with police, tendered to the court, showed he initially said he knew nothing about Meagher's disappearance, before detectives asked why the SIM card from her mobile phone had been found in his house.

Police documents allege an ABC-branded pencil was found in the laneway, and that Mr Bayley's partner found Meagher's broken SIM card in their washing machine after washing his clothes.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...pe-denies-murder/story-e6frg6nf-1226595932888

I suspect it was his partner who dobbed him in; i doubt the police identified him from a photo in a database of registered sex offenders, which concerns me even more regarding police efforts. For further elaboration see my previous posts in this thread: #413 and #424.

 

[Paulie11]

Is the committal hearing going ahead today as planned? I have gotten the impression it's finished. It was originally scheduled for two days, has it been cut short?

 

[Mrs G Norris]

A transcript of Mr Bayley's interview with police, tendered to the court, showed he initially said he knew nothing about Meagher's disappearance, before detectives asked why the SIM card from her mobile phone had been found in his house.

Police documents allege an ABC-branded pencil was found in the laneway, and that Mr Bayley's partner found Meagher's broken SIM card in their washing machine after washing his clothes.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...pe-denies-murder/story-e6frg6nf-1226595932888

I suspect it was his partner who dobbed him in; i doubt the police identified him from a photo in a database of registered sex offenders, which concerns me even more regarding police efforts. For further elaboration see my previous posts in this thread: #413 and #424.

I think so too ... he came home late that night then left again 3 hours later, and arrived home mid morning most likely, she was probably hoping against hope it wasn't him poor woman.

 

[Jmbr]

Thanks.. yeah, I didn't mean he came back and killed her.. I meant came back and interferred with her body- after she was already dead.. before taking her and burying her. Not nice thoughts at all..

Yeah same as I was thinking, but then he would have been charged with interfering with a corpse.. Its so confusing! ehat made those journalists react the way they did when they were shown what happened?!

He put her through more hell than we know while she was alive. I've been feeling sick all day from this.

 

[fruity]

This is pure speculation and it's upsetting. So don't read ahead if it's going to bother you (it's about the 3 rape charges).







I think he's denying 3 rape charges because he's going to say there was 1 rape incident with 3 'types' of rape committed within that 1 rape. We've read the details, I don't want to type them.

 

[fruity]

Thanks.. yeah, I didn't mean he came back and killed her.. I meant came back and interferred with her body- after she was already dead.. before taking her and burying her. Not nice thoughts at all..

I see what you mean, sorry I misunderstood. The only types of 'interference with a corpse' charges are the ones in the link I gave, so if he didn't commit those crimes he couldn't be charged. But you're right, maybe he did something else that they couldn't charge him with.

 

[Jmbr]

Were the public free to enter court today to listen to the hearing to hear facts which have been suppressed? I did not hear it was a closed hearing, so I presume any member of the public could walk in and listen. Is that correct?
<modsnip>

Over at the Victoria Police website: http://www.vicpolicenews.com.au/ all we find is this:
Police investigate kangaroo shootings - Upper Plenty
Tuesday, 12 March 2013 21:10
Police have charged a man as part of an ongoing investigation into an animal cruelty incident in Upper Plenty last week.

This is a farce. The police should be updating us about cases like this, not some market-driven, profit-seeking capitalist behind-paywall outfit run by the Murdochs, Packers, Rineharts of the world.

Does anyone know the protocols for going about seeking information on cases such as this? Has anyone had any experience? What has that experience been like? Good or bad? I want to know who has access to information.

I want to know whether the police are just making up these charges of oral, anal, vaginal rape (3 rape charges)- in order to get him a higher sentence because of the greater degradation of his offending. If he&#8217;s denying it, then what evidence do the cops have to bring those charges? Something we can&#8217;t know, I suppose; we, the gullible many. So if evidence was provided, the papers and those in court all know, now bound by secrecy, and we&#8217;re getting some dribs and drabs. Screw this. If the laws need to be changed, then they should. Police should not go fishing around for charges to game the broken system. Fix the system, not the charges.

Cap in hand, we go begging for information. Off to the profiteers we go.

Of course they are not making up the three counts of rape. We do not need to know the details of this case, and I, for one, am happy to await the trial to avoid them claiming a mistrial for leaked information.

They obviously have DNA evidence of these rapes, not to mention they did an autopsy and she would have had injuries in two of the places he is alleged to have raped her, and he himself may have had injuries from one of the rapes.

The police have done a good job in keeping us up to date, but the truth is they have to go through the media to release it, there's no other way.

We don't all agree with the legal system, but the police are not the ones who let Jill down. For all we know her family may want to suppress some of the details to give Jill a little dignity.

 

[Jmbr]

This is pure speculation and it's upsetting. So don't read ahead if it's going to bother you (it's about the 3 rape charges).







I think he's denying 3 rape charges because he's going to say there was 1 rape incident with 3 'types' of rape committed within that 1 rape. We've read the details, I don't want to type them.

Yeah he could be arguing that. Will the police consider it three if they found three separate bits of DNA in her body? Awful to think, but three counts would mean three 'complete' rapes. God it's terrible I can't even comprehend his actions.

 

[fruity]

Yeah he could be arguing that. Will the police consider it three if they found three separate bits of DNA in her body? Awful to think, but three counts would mean three 'complete' rapes. God it's terrible I can't even comprehend his actions.

That's exactly what I was thinking but I didn't want to type the whole awful thing out.

I don't know much, but I know that trauma to a body can be used as evidence of rape, even if there's no physical evidence (ie if a condom was used). Perhaps that's what the police are going on.

 

[Scoobysnack]

On Channel 7 news this morn.... The reporter said Jill stopped to talk to three strangers, who gave her a cigarette - this was the CCTV footage outside chemist warehouse.

 

[gallaggr]

Fair play to the girlfriend then in my opinion, what a horrible position to be in!...I think I read in karen huf's tweets that the last person to give evidence was an informant. Maybe it was her because surely she would have to be called as a witness?

 

[Jmbr]

Fair play to the girlfriend then in my opinion, what a horrible position to be in!...I think I read in karen huf's tweets that the last person to give evidence was an informant. Maybe it was her because surely she would have to be called as a witness?

You would think she will be called to give evidence, but I just checked Karen hufs twitter and she said the committal was complete.. Didn't see anything about an informant either. Couldve been someone else maybe.

Looks like its all over til the case starts. Lets hope he changes his plea and there is no downgrade in his sentence.

 

[gallaggr]

sorry it was kate osbourne who said the police informant was the only one left, it could have the man who picked him up when he ran out of petrol either? I'd be so interested in knowing what made the girlfriend hand the sim card over to the police, why did she think it was important...

 

[Scoobysnack]

sorry it was kate osbourne who said the police informant was the only one left, it could have the man who picked him up when he ran out of petrol either? I'd be so interested in knowing what made the girlfriend hand the sim card over to the police, why did she think it was important...

I have not heard that before.... that someone picked him up cause he ran out of petrol?

 

[gallaggr]

I have not heard that before.... that someone picked him up cause he ran out of petrol?

yep apparently after burying Jill...http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...new-cctv-footage/story-fnat79vb-1226595956235

But I think the man who picked him up didn't know who he was....