GUILTY Australia - Jill Meagher, 29, Melbourne, 22 Sep 2012 #5

[Paulie11]

What's with the handbag on the roof? Wasn't it found in the laneway after it was returned by the person who had found it?

http://www.theage.com.au/photogalle...ne-photos-20130313-2fzv2.html?selectedImage=2

Apparently the butcher found it, kept it, then saw all of the media about jill, realised the bag was hers, then we're told he put it back in the laneway, which in this case it looks like it means: threw it onto a nearby roof to throw the scent off himself. Looks like something like this happened.

 

[KG1]

I did not question WHY he would plead guilty to rape and not murder.. I understand the way it works in that sense as you have stated. I was merely pointing out.. he has admitted to Murdering her(sorry 'killing' her) and was able to take Police to where she was buried(meaning he had that knowledge).. but he is now denying he killed her. Given that, what I was saying is you seem intent to think the Police are making up that he raped her 3 times, because he is denying 2 times and only admitting to once. Yet he admitted to killing her, though is now denying.. so whats to say he is not telling the truth in only admitting to 1 count of rape.. I do not know the innerworkings of such a persons mind. So I don't see why he wouldn't deny it for whatever reason to suit his purpose.. Why are you so intent on believing the Police may be making it up is my question. Plenty of guilty persons have denied involvement in a crime, despite evidence to the contrary.

He has admitted in interviews to killing her, but has pleaded 'not guilty' to murdering her, as a murder offence is the deliberate taking of a person's life with malice aforethought. Why he is pleading 'not guilty' is because in his mind he did not have the malice aforethought and the intention to kill. In other words, her strangulation was 'accidental' and unintended. However, if one does an act and knows that the likely consequence of that act is the death of another, then that is murder. BBM

 

[Sleuthilicious]

Wow! They had a LOT of CCTV footage of him. IMO he is pretty calm and collected..

Remorseless.

http://www.news.com.au/national-new...an-ernest-bayley/story-fndo4cq1-1226596495389

 

[KG1]

Very good work, Sleuthilicious. i hadn't seen that article.

I'm still puzzled, however, as to what the g/f thought of the blue hoodie cctv footage before the cops approached her. wasn't it released tuesday morning? the cops approached her wednesday at work- so she must have seen it at some point during tuesday. she must have known it was him. that tuesday night would have been the longest night of her life.
so she identified him wednesday, though they arrested him on thursday arvo. so did she spend wednesday night with him too?
i think she works at night, so they must have approached her wednesday night some time. though that still leaves her to get home thursday morning, after night shift, until the arvo when they arrested him thurs after lunch. there are a few gaps here.

From my recollection, the CCTV footage was released on the Wednesday afternoon, around 1.00pm and played on evening news. Also from recollection, he was arrested on the Thursday, the following day.

 

[KG1]

How does this Toyota fit into the investigation I wonder? Does anyone recall information on it?

http://www.theage.com.au/photogalle...ne-photos-20130313-2fzv2.html?selectedImage=8

I wondered about this myself when I saw the photo. Didn't the perp in other rape charges laid against AB for other victims, drive a red car on occasion? MOO

 

[Sleuthilicious]

I wondered about this myself when I saw the photo. Didn't the perp in other rape charges laid against AB for other victims, drive a red car on occasion? MOO

Ahhh, yes. Thank you!

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...-two-other-women/story-fnat79vb-1226590253024

 

[Scoobysnack]

I think I also remember seeing a car repair place along Hope street, this car may be involved that way?
However I think the money is more on AB having the red Toyota in his possession.

 

[Paulie11]

Forgive me for being quite frank here, but three counts of rape does not necessarily mean he ejaculated on three occasions. That part of the body will leave DNA behind pretty much regardless of how long it is there for.

Once again, apologies for the blunt language.

I think his defense might be that it cannot be proved that it was his semen in three places on the body, presumably leaving open the option she had a consensual sexual encounter with someone else before her terrible fate with him. I remember reading back at the time that semen degrades pretty quickly after it is outside of the body, or something like that, so i do not think there is any semen linking bayley, though there would be some remnants of semen on the victim, which one then infers are to be reasonably linked back to bayley, as he has confessed to a rape.

This is a great report done by channel 7:
http://au.news.yahoo.com/vic/latest/a/-/newshome/16357305/meagher-accused-said-maybe-husband-did-it/

If you watch it, at 2:13, the reporter says that Jill brushes off a drunken kiss by her colleague. Now, Bayley can claim they got up to something; therefore, not all the semen on the victim’s body is his. He is muddying the waters and saying, no, it wasn't 3 rapes (which i take it to mean on three places on the body), it was just one place. This is the only rational way i can see he can be seeking to defend 2 rape charges. He is obviously attempting this strategy to appear less degrading. I think this is all theoretical, and no one will believe bayley's version. I think his lawyer is an appalling human for these legal shenanigans.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

I think I also remember seeing a car repair place along Hope street, this car may be involved that way?
However I think the money is more on AB having the red Toyota in his possession.

I think it relates to the other charges laid against him for the attacks on two other women, one of them was the backpacker who conned him into taking her home.

 

[Sleuthilicious]

This is a great report done by channel 7:
http://au.news.yahoo.com/vic/latest/a/-/newshome/16357305/meagher-accused-said-maybe-husband-did-it/

If you watch it, at 2:13, the reporter says that Jill brushes off a drunken kiss by her colleague. Now, Bayley can claim they got up to something; therefore, not all the semen on the victim’s body is his. He is muddying the waters and saying, no, it wasn't 3 rapes (which i take it to mean in three places on the body), it was just one place. This is the only rational way i can see he can be seeking to defend 2 rape charges. He is obviously attempting this strategy to appear less degrading. I think this is all theoretical, and no one will believe bayley's version. I think his lawyer is an appalling human for these shenanigans.

Wow! That's a great video report. The attempt at a drunken kiss certainly explains why she didn't get in the cab I'll bet he's so remorseful he made the attempt.

Also, CCTV and witnesses would quickly debunk the opportunity for any shenanigans between Jill and her friend. If they go down this road then he is even fouler than I thought.. Poor Tom

Bayley needs to take responsibility IMO!

 

[Paulie11]

Wow! That's a great video report. The attempt at a drunken kiss certainly explains why she didn't get in the cab I'll bet he's so remorseful he made the attempt.

Bayley needs to take responsibility IMO!

yeah, there are regrets all around here. this is a heart-breaking case.

 

[Paulie11]

This is a great report done by channel 7:
http://au.news.yahoo.com/vic/latest/...usband-did-it/

 

[CuriousGrace]

The poor girlfriend too. She has been so courageous submitting all the evidence too. The life she lives now must be empty. She must be so disgusted & feeling smothered with guilt knowing their argument led to this... Her evidence is vital though. He had wrecked so many lives, it's just beyond comprehension.

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

He has admitted in interviews to killing her, but has pleaded 'not guilty' to murdering her, as a murder offence is the deliberate taking of a person's life with malice aforethought. Why he is pleading 'not guilty' is because in his mind he did not have the malice aforethought and the intention to kill. In other words, her strangulation was 'accidental' and unintended. However, if one does an act and knows that the likely consequence of that act is the death of another, then that is murder. BBM

Yep, sorry.. I didn't make it clear thats what I meant... he has admitted to killing her..while he can say he didn't mean to.. But as you say they would then look at whether a person could reasonably forsee their actions may result in the death of a person..

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

He has admitted he is responsible for his death. He is not pleading guilty to the legal charge of murder, this does not mean he is now recanting on his admission. It is legal manoeuvring. Maybe the lawyer is hopeful he can get a lesser charge for the act of killing her. I doubt it'll be successful but that is their job.

Yep. thanks I realized I worded that wrong. and understand while admitting to killing her does not mean he will admit to murdering her.. I hope they are not successful either!

 

[Love Coco]

Awful to think, but three counts would mean three 'complete' rapes.

Nope, counts don't mean 'complete' rapes.

 

[Angeline]

The poor girlfriend too. She has been so courageous submitting all the evidence too. The life she lives now must be empty. She must be so disgusted & feeling smothered with guilt knowing their argument led to this... Her evidence is vital though. He had wrecked so many lives, it's just beyond comprehension.

I just can't feel sorry for the girlfriend. I mean, it's good that she cooperated with police, but judging from the court transcripts she's not the sharpest tool in the shed, and who shacks up with a serial rapist anyway? Unless, of course, she didn't know about his past.

I don't know... maybe it's just that AB is so vile that I can't muster any sympathy right now for someone that chose to be with him.

 

[Angeline]

I can't help but wonder if Jill stopped and asked the 3 strangers for a cigarette outside Chemist Warehouse because she wasn't feeling safe? I wonder at what moment she started being watched.

Bit more info from Herald Sun about what the landlady saw:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...t-documents-show/story-fnat79vb-1226595956235

The woman (AB girlfriend), whom the Herald Sun has chosen not to name, told police how she and Bayley went out drinking with his mates on the night of Friday September 21, before she left him at a Swanston St bar because of an argument about seating.


An elderly woman who owned the Coburg home where the couple boarded told police she saw the de facto arrive home.

"She said she was hiding from Adrian," the landlady said in a police statement tendered in court.

The de facto ignored Bayley's subsequent texts and phone calls that night.

According to police documents, Bayley returned home and changed before heading to Brunswick . There he dragged Ms Meagher into a laneway about 1.38am, raped, and allegedly strangled her.

The court heard he returned to the laneway, with a shovel in his car, about 4.22am and drove Ms Meagher's body to Gisborne South, where he buried her.

The elderly landlady saw Bayley, who worked as a pipeline layer, at the Coburg house about 6.30am.

She told police: "He said to me, 'I've just had a shower - been a big night. I just had a phone call from my boss. He asked me to go and check on a pipe."'

Bayley's partner told police he came in about 7am that Saturday.

She said they slept until maybe 1pm before driving to pick up a car from a Flemington hotel.

"We went in my car to Flemington (and) on the way we stopped and had kebabs," she told police.

"And then we went and picked up his car and then we got some movies."

 

[Paulie11]

If you watch this footage, you will see Jill walking off to the left of screen, and then there is a splice-in of Bayley following her (he, hurriedly, turns off left also):
http://video.heraldsun.com.au/2342165393/Is-this-Jill-being-chased-by-her-accused-killer
That place into which they both turn off is called ‘Sparta Place’. This is a description of it: ‘Sparta Place is a quaint and quirky laneway, just off Sydney Road in Brunswick.’ You can read some more about it here:
http://www.weekendnotes.com.au/sparta-place-brunswick/
It is now my belief that walking down Sparta Place was Jill’s usual path home. She would walk down Sparta Place to Tripovich Street, take a right, walk up to Ballarat Street, take a left, walk all the way down to the Upfield Bike Path, cross it and walk right onto Nardella Way, then walk down Nardella to Ferrier Street, turn left into it, which leads right to Lux Way, her home.
All of this would explain the comments back at the time that ‘she shouldn’t have been up this far’- up as far as Hope Street- that path was not her usual routine. But I believe she was warned off her usual back-streets path as Bayley was there right behind her, hassling her, as we can see from the footage above- she turns into Sparta Place, only to have him tailgating her. So she must have changed plans away from Sparta Place, and decided to walk up the busy Sydney Road path- all the way to Hope Street, hoping to lose him along the way. That is where we see her, outside of Duchess Boutique in that infamous blue hoodie cctv footage, offering her final ploy to ward off Bayley: the good old talking on the mobile phone trick. Bayley must have walked off ahead of her during that call and went down Hope Street, hiding in some shadows and leapt out to grab her. This is terrible. That footage is particularly haunting; it reminds me of a Hitchcock film.

He followed and hassled her for about 170m- from Sparta Place to Duchess boutique; and no doubt she was trying to lose him that whole way. There is about another 80m from Duchess boutique to Hope Street- so 250m all up, according to my calculations on Google maps.

just as i wrote this, a new pope was elected. pity religion can't help in these cases.

 

[Jmbr]

Wow! That's a great video report. The attempt at a drunken kiss certainly explains why she didn't get in the cab I'll bet he's so remorseful he made the attempt.

Also, CCTV and witnesses would quickly debunk the opportunity for any shenanigans between Jill and her friend. If they go down this road then he is even fouler than I thought.. Poor Tom

Bayley needs to take responsibility IMO!

I have a feeling he may say that maybe she consented to sex with him to begin with. He seems to be trying to tarnish her image a bit, like saying she followed him and talked about her dad to him.

Poor Tom. He must know she wouldn't have agreed to anything with him...