Found Deceased Australia - Karen Ristevski, 47, Melbourne, Vic, 29 June 2016 - #13

[Oona]

How do you think the shovel fits into things?

I can only find articles from after KR was found noting that a shovel had been taken...

"Testing revealed two distinct soil types: one matched soil behind the family home, leading police to begin their initial search along the Maribyrnong River; the other matched soil found in the Gisborne-Macedon area."

If the results of the testing led to the inital searches then the shovel must have been seized fairly early on - before the "shovel man" witness.

Also, im no soil expert and havent even paid attention in particular to the ground in any of these places, but i wouldn't be surprised if toolern vale soil is very different to mt Macedon. Toolern vale always looks so dry to me, where mt Macedon is much more lush looking. I think the soil on the shovel matches toolern vale/gisborne and was part of the reason they were searching that specific area in December. Did he bury her handbag maybe? I cant help but think if the shovel had mt Macedon dirt (not Macedon ranges region dirt) they would have been searching there much earlier.

Also there's been talk of KR being at a different location to where she was found. How does the childers Rd witness fit into that?


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I don't think it is unusual that BR took the shovel in the car when he set off to dispose of her body. Surely he had some kind of plan. Probably he planned to bury her body but found the ground too hard... if it is clay soil it would have been like trying to dig into rock.
I don't think we have been told whether the soil on the shovel matched the specific site that Karen's body was found.... that would be fairly indicting for BR.


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[decsimp]

I don't think it is unusual that BR took the shovel in the car when he set off to dispose of her body. Surely he had some kind of plan. Probably he planned to bury her body but found the ground too hard... if it is clay soil it would have been like trying to dig into rock.
I don't think we have been told whether the soil on the shovel matched the specific site that Karen's body was found.... that would be fairly indicting for BR.


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We haven't been told - im sure they had the results from the soil on the shovel pretty early on and LE chose to focus their search in that blackhill rd area NOT mt Macedon. Did the results just not provide enough info or ?

A bit strange that he'd use a shovel for anywhere besides his backyard really... and i agree he probably did take it and then might have no used it as he found that forked tree - but he did use it somewhere in the region for something

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[sosocurious]

Trooper SR i believe 100% is not helping LE.

CalliopeGG I found the information on 'eraser killer's the other day & the site is on my I Pad at home so will find the link and post it later tonight. There is obviously
a lot more information that I didn't post. I follow on TV crime story's and buy the magazines but have never heard that term used but I like the term when applied to the traits of one . I don't think I will need to be buying any crime magazines for a few years as I have had enough reading on this case to last for a long time.

I met BR years ago at a family function when they involved in the jeans trade with importing. I thought KR was a lot less reserved and very subdued and was going to say something to my sister who had a lot more contact with KR that she seemed a lot quieter than the last time I had seen her and i got that impression she was in a controlled marriage but thought best not to.

That's another lesson I learnt the hard way from KR's situation, don't put off seeing family or friends when the occasions arise to do so as you may never get the chance to do so ever again. I was invited to our Aunty's wedding in Sydney early last year which KR attended. I could have gone but put work ahead of family first which now i realise I should not have done but I won't be making that mistake again.

I did read the case you were referencing Steve...very sad.
But the boys were very young one only 7 years. Allison Baden Clay's girls were also young.
Sarah is an adult she is in a relationship of her own. She seems to have the freedom to travel and come and go as she pleases. She has friends.
I really do not understand why she is not helping the police find her mother's murderer, father or not. Especially as the facts slowly come to light.

Karen last saw her family in March I think her aunt said in an article. Maybe that was the wedding you were invited to. Did Sarah attend? Did Borce?
March was also the month Borce was smiling in the photo next to that fluffy thing on his buying trip overseas.

imo

 

[sosocurious]

28/29 June 2016 Karen last seen

@end of June 2016 (8th month of 6-8 months before 20 February 2017) start of rancid smell Ian Flannery

July 2016 photographer Jay Town was in the bush in July stumbled across bottles of industrial strength fertiliser (note no mention of any smell)

20 July 2016 (7th month of 6 to 8 months before 20 February) start of rancid smell Ian Flannery

August 2016 dean sees two men in truck 200m from where body found

20 August 2016 (6th month of 6 to 8 months before 20 feb 2017) start of rancid smell Ian Flannery

October 2016 police search abandoned burnt down restaurant (vr seen there numerous times in months prior)

November or December 2016 expressionless eyes shovel man witnessed by Gary Salt at midnight encounter (news article report both months)

20 February 2017 Karen found

Dean saw the 2 men bogged in the days following Karen missing.
He reported it 27 August to crimestoppers according to this article

Which would mean Dean saw bogged truck, lime and concrete...2 bearded men whom he can id in early July
Jay Town took photo's of plastic container in July.

Macedon resident Dean told police that in the days after Ms Ristevski disappeared, he saw two strange men matching the description of Borce and Vasko Ristevksi bogged in a small white truck on Salisbury Rd — about 200m from where the body was found.
“From their appearance I knew they were from Serbia, Macedonia, the Balkans. They certainly had an accent,” Dean said.
“I thought it was rather strange ... you’d go down there in a 4WD, you wouldn’t go down there in a car and you certainly wouldn’t go down in a truck.
“I had a conversation with one of them..(he) had that half-shaved, goatee sort of look.”
Dean said he spent “sleepless nights” wondering if it was connected to the Ristevski case and phoned Crime Stoppers on August 27.
“I was absolutely convinced that what I saw was unusual and could be related to Karen Ristevski,” he said.

Also in July, News photographer Jay Town was walking in bush on the side of Loch Rd, about 40m from where the body would be found, when he came across empty bottles of industrial strength fertiliser.
Feeling uneasy, he phoned police then, and spoke to detectives this week.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/kar...15942a01e289ad

Just playing with your timeline Southern Highlands

1) 28/29 June 2016 Karen last seen

* ) @end of June 2016 (8th month of 6-8 months before 20 February 2017) start of rancid smell Ian Flannery
2) Early July 2016 Dean sees two men in truck 200m from where body found....he also sees concrete and lime.
3) July 2016 photographer Jay Town was in the bush in July stumbled across bottles of industrial strength fertiliser (note no mention of any smell)
* ) 20 July 2016 (7th month of 6 to 8 months before 20 February) start of rancid smell Ian Flannery

20 August 2016 (6th month of 6 to 8 months before 20 feb 2017) start of rancid smell Ian Flannery

October 2016 police search abandoned burnt down restaurant (vr seen there numerous times in months prior)

November or December 2016 expressionless eyes shovel man witnessed by Gary Salt at midnight encounter (news article report both months)

20 February 2017 Karen found

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Oh boy, one wonders why they didn't get the cadaver dogs onto that stretch of road after the Crimestopper calls [emoji848] ..... dear oh dear, hey .... bit of a slip up there MOO

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Whoops, meant to attach above post of sosocurious

 

[UndiscoveredTruth]

No she hasnt made contact with me. My daughter is on a weeks leave at the moment. Im planning on going to the salon next week, and will push again for a return call. The owner of the salon is pretty sure this person lives in the same street as KR.

Thanks emirates! Same street? So this person who claims to have seen KR walking the day of her disappearance, lives on the same street as Karen.... wow! Very interesting indeed. Hope they contact you. Keep us posted please! TIA

 

[Puggle]

Dean saw the 2 men bogged in the days following Karen missing.
He reported it 27 August to crimestoppers according to this article

Which would mean Dean saw bogged truck, lime and concrete...2 bearded men whom he can id in early July
Jay Town took photo's of plastic container in July.

Macedon resident Dean told police that in the days after Ms Ristevski disappeared, he saw two strange men matching the description of Borce and Vasko Ristevksi bogged in a small white truck on Salisbury Rd — about 200m from where the body was found.
“From their appearance I knew they were from Serbia, Macedonia, the Balkans. They certainly had an accent,” Dean said.
“I thought it was rather strange ... you’d go down there in a 4WD, you wouldn’t go down there in a car and you certainly wouldn’t go down in a truck.
“I had a conversation with one of them..(he) had that half-shaved, goatee sort of look.”
Dean said he spent “sleepless nights” wondering if it was connected to the Ristevski case and phoned Crime Stoppers on August 27.
“I was absolutely convinced that what I saw was unusual and could be related to Karen Ristevski,” he said.

Also in July, News photographer Jay Town was walking in bush on the side of Loch Rd, about 40m from where the body would be found, when he came across empty bottles of industrial strength fertiliser.
Feeling uneasy, he phoned police then, and spoke to detectives this week.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/kar...15942a01e289ad

Just playing with your timeline Southern Highlands

1) 28/29 June 2016 Karen last seen

* ) @end of June 2016 (8th month of 6-8 months before 20 February 2017) start of rancid smell Ian Flannery
2) Early July 2016 Dean sees two men in truck 200m from where body found....he also sees concrete and lime.
3) July 2016 photographer Jay Town was in the bush in July stumbled across bottles of industrial strength fertiliser (note no mention of any smell)
* ) 20 July 2016 (7th month of 6 to 8 months before 20 February) start of rancid smell Ian Flannery

20 August 2016 (6th month of 6 to 8 months before 20 feb 2017) start of rancid smell Ian Flannery

October 2016 police search abandoned burnt down restaurant (vr seen there numerous times in months prior)

November or December 2016 expressionless eyes shovel man witnessed by Gary Salt at midnight encounter (news article report both months)

20 February 2017 Karen found

The truck getting bogged on Salisbury resonates with me .... Im betting it was on Salisbury just on the bend before Loch Rd ... thats what I experienced ... boggy on that bend ... but just a few mtrs ...ok to drive down Loch for about 200mtrs before it gets really, really boggy.

Referring to my post # 208.

Also .... on the accents.

Recently went to South Melbourne Market ....

@ a stall lady speaking in "English" to Asian friends/relatives also in the same stall using a strong accent when talking to them ....

She then notices me .... asks if she can help me... I say "No just looking" .... she says, thats fine to look .....with absolutely NO accent.... go figure???

 

[SouthernHighlands]

"Dean saw the 2 men bogged in the days following Karen missing.
He reported it 27 August to crimestoppers according to this article

..........Macedon resident Dean told police that in the days after Ms Ristevski disappeared

Just playing with your timeline Southern Highlands"

Yes! Soso you are perfectly correct! Great job.

 

[ozazure]

I don't think it is unusual that BR took the shovel in the car when he set off to dispose of her body. Surely he had some kind of plan. Probably he planned to bury her body but found the ground too hard... if it is clay soil it would have been like trying to dig into rock.
I don't think we have been told whether the soil on the shovel matched the specific site that Karen's body was found.... that would be fairly indicting for BR.


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Maybe he set off to Blackhill Rd with the same plan as Adrian Bayley who did bury Jill. In daylight it is not private at all. Off to Macedon, ground is too hard. Can only find that out by giving it a go.

 

[sosocurious]

July 16, 2016
Police are understood to have shifted their focus to a second unidentified location and are hoping members of the public will come forward with security camera footage that will help them piece together Mrs Ristevski’s movements on the day she was last seen.
They have also interviewed several neighbours, who reportedly have been unable to support Mr Ristevski’s statement that his wife left home about 10.30am on June 29.
Two cars have also been seized as part of the investigation.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...i/news-story/aee53dd6b5b7d712edb3a6f5e4f18a1e

17 days after Karen disappeared police a secret unidentified location. There was that unconvincing mention of the place the family were known to holiday...Barmah??
Borce knew those phones were going to ping, he had to. There was an i pad search how to remove phone data. Maybe he did not know to which tower they had pinged but would have known when those phones were off and not pinging.
I wonder if Vasko visit to the burnt out site was not to create a bit of a red herring.
All this info being reported to crimestoppers from the Mount Macedon area and seemingly not being followed up and acted on. :thinking:

 

[JLZ]

Dean saw the 2 men bogged in the days following Karen missing.
He reported it 27 August to crimestoppers according to this article

Which would mean Dean saw bogged truck, lime and concrete...2 bearded men whom he can id in early July
Jay Town took photo's of plastic container in July.

Macedon resident Dean told police that in the days after Ms Ristevski disappeared, he saw two strange men matching the description of Borce and Vasko Ristevksi bogged in a small white truck on Salisbury Rd — about 200m from where the body was found.
“From their appearance I knew they were from Serbia, Macedonia, the Balkans. They certainly had an accent,” Dean said.
“I thought it was rather strange ... you’d go down there in a 4WD, you wouldn’t go down there in a car and you certainly wouldn’t go down in a truck.
“I had a conversation with one of them..(he) had that half-shaved, goatee sort of look.”
Dean said he spent “sleepless nights” wondering if it was connected to the Ristevski case and phoned Crime Stoppers on August 27.
“I was absolutely convinced that what I saw was unusual and could be related to Karen Ristevski,” he said.

Also in July, News photographer Jay Town was walking in bush on the side of Loch Rd, about 40m from where the body would be found, when he came across empty bottles of industrial strength fertiliser.
Feeling uneasy, he phoned police then, and spoke to detectives this week.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/kar...15942a01e289ad

Just playing with your timeline Southern Highlands

1) 28/29 June 2016 Karen last seen

* ) @end of June 2016 (8th month of 6-8 months before 20 February 2017) start of rancid smell Ian Flannery
2) Early July 2016 Dean sees two men in truck 200m from where body found....he also sees concrete and lime.
3) July 2016 photographer Jay Town was in the bush in July stumbled across bottles of industrial strength fertiliser (note no mention of any smell)
* ) 20 July 2016 (7th month of 6 to 8 months before 20 February) start of rancid smell Ian Flannery

20 August 2016 (6th month of 6 to 8 months before 20 feb 2017) start of rancid smell Ian Flannery

October 2016 police search abandoned burnt down restaurant (vr seen there numerous times in months prior)

November or December 2016 expressionless eyes shovel man witnessed by Gary Salt at midnight encounter (news article report both months)

20 February 2017 Karen found

I've got a query with the date of item 2, Dean's observations. "In the days following" is very vague and in my opinion doesn't imply early July. Is there anything else to support an early July date? I have an idea Dean saw the truck just a few days before he made the Crimestoppers report, but I can't find anything now to back that up either.

 

[sosocurious]

I've got a query with the date of item 2, Dean's observations. "In the days following" is very vague and in my opinion doesn't imply early July. Is there anything else to support an early July date? I have an idea Dean saw the truck just a few days before he made the Crimestoppers report, but I can't find anything now to back that up either.

Macedon resident Dean told police that in the days after Ms Ristevski disappeared, he saw two strange men matching the description of Borce and Vasko Ristevksi bogged in a small white truck on Salisbury Rd — about 200m from where the body was found.

Ok I have interpreted in the days as just that days. Not weeks or months JLZ. But who really knows?
Therefore, assuming days would be the first half and early days in July.

 

[JLZ]

Macedon resident Dean told police that in the days after Ms Ristevski disappeared, he saw two strange men matching the description of Borce and Vasko Ristevksi bogged in a small white truck on Salisbury Rd — about 200m from where the body was found.

Ok I have interpreted in the days as just that days. Not weeks or months JLZ. But who really knows?
Therefore, assuming days would be the first half and early days in July.

Yeah . . . to me it sounds like a journalist making it more sensational without actually telling lies.

I have an idea that some time back I cross-checked on someone's August report and the event turned out to be three or four days before the CS or LE reporting, so the twenty-somethingth August. But it might not have been Dean.

 

[Oona]

Maybe he set off to Blackhill Rd with the same plan as Adrian Bayley who did bury Jill. In daylight it is not private at all. Off to Macedon, ground is too hard. Can only find that out by giving it a go.

Yes that sounds like a good explanation. I'd love to know what he was doing stopped by the side of Childers rd....obviously something that made the witness want to recount it to someone.
I wonder if Karen's belongings (bag, wallet) were removed/disposed of at the time of the trip to Mount Macedon or at a later time when BR was concocting his "went for a walk to clear her head" story. We know her phone was probably disposed of at the time because of the pings.... but the other items could be anywhere really.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I don't think it is unusual that BR took the shovel in the car when he set off to dispose of her body. Surely he had some kind of plan. Probably he planned to bury her body but found the ground too hard... if it is clay soil it would have been like trying to dig into rock.
I don't think we have been told whether the soil on the shovel matched the specific site that Karen's body was found.... that would be fairly indicting for BR.


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Soil found on a shovel seized by police at the home Karen Ristevski shared with her husband 'matches dirt in bushland outside Melbourne where her body was found'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...hovel-home-Karen-Ristevski.html#ixzz4ogvMY5K4
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[Puggle]

Yeah . . . to me it sounds like a journalist making it more sensational without actually telling lies.

I have an idea that some time back I cross-checked on someone's August report and the event turned out to be three or four days before the CS or LE reporting, so the twenty-somethingth August. But it might not have been Dean.

Im leaning towards it being in the days after she dissapeared. .. as worded.

Opposed to...... saw the Van in the "days before reporting".

The subsequent starting sentence ... "Also in July" .... implys the two instances ...

that of the sighting of the Van

and the sighting of the chemicals ..... were of the same time frame..

The one thing I feel positive about is this sighting was real ...

The Road is gravel to accomadate the houses on Salisbury ....
then it turns more bush/mix of gravel and clay.....
its really muddy on a small section at the end of Salisbury just for a few metres before it turns into Loch and becomes drivable, before it turns to muck again ........ about 200mtrs down the road.

 

[they'll get you]

Anyone else confused about where Karen was in between these logs?

theres the point where the logs meet and I was under the impression Karen was wedged there but in the first aerial pics the smaller logs are where the logs a at the further point away from each other.

 

[Puggle]

July 16, 2016
Police are understood to have shifted their focus to a second unidentified location and are hoping members of the public will come forward with security camera footage that will help them piece together Mrs Ristevski’s movements on the day she was last seen.
They have also interviewed several neighbours, who reportedly have been unable to support Mr Ristevski’s statement that his wife left home about 10.30am on June 29.
Two cars have also been seized as part of the investigation.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...i/news-story/aee53dd6b5b7d712edb3a6f5e4f18a1e

17 days after Karen disappeared police a secret unidentified location. There was that unconvincing mention of the place the family were known to holiday...Barmah??
Borce knew those phones were going to ping, he had to. There was an i pad search how to remove phone data. Maybe he did not know to which tower they had pinged but would have known when those phones were off and not pinging.
I wonder if Vasko visit to the burnt out site was not to create a bit of a red herring.
All this info being reported to crimestoppers from the Mount Macedon area and seemingly not being followed up and acted on. :thinking:

Crimestopper page is different in all states .... Victorias is one of the useless ones .....

Unless you can specify a specific crime .... Not just a suspicion ... the page doesn't navigate properly and the report ends up??? ..... under miscellaneous?? ......

The report probably didn't even hit anyones desk.... because it didn't have a designated specific crime attached to the report...... speaking from experience of using the page.

 

[Puggle]

Anyone else confused about where Karen was in between these logs?

theres the point where the logs meet and I was under the impression Karen was wedged there but in the first aerial pics the smaller logs are where the logs a at the further point away from each other.

Ill try to upload on my phone ...... just found the pencil tool...

2 secs

 

[they'll get you]

[h=1]Means, motive, and opportunity[/h]

In U.S. criminal law, means, motive, and opportunity is a common summation of the three aspects of a crime that must be established before guilt can possibly be determined in a criminal proceeding. Respectively, they refer to: the ability of the defendant to commit the crime (means), the reason the defendant committed the crime (motive), and whether the defendant had the chance to commit the crime (opportunity). Opportunity is most often disproved by use of an alibi, which can prove the accused was not able to commit the crime as he or she did not have the correct set of circumstances to commit the crime as it occurred.
Some crimes are motiveless, however proving motive can often make it easier to convince a jury of the elements that must be proved for a conviction.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Means,_motive,_and_opportunity