Found Deceased Australia - Karen Ristevski, 47, Melbourne, Vic, 29 June 2016 - #15 *Arrest*

[Jennifer17]

Unless they were scavenged or removed by ‘human hands’:

I think tgy posted this earlier:

https://bonesdontlie.wordpress.com/2013/08/08/new-morbid-terminology-quicklime/

Methinks ‘someone’ spent too much time watching movies. Big mistake, among others.

I wish that I had not read that. I have a fondness for pigs.

 

[Unit45]

Well what where VR and BR doing near where the body was found?

Go back the through the threads in Mt Macedon it was a dinner talk, the man with a shovel.

 

[Bohemian]

"... end it or I will make ur time inside a living hell!"

As I understand it, Ant urgently is demanding a confession of guilt by his father.

Little chance. It’s time to move on and think of his children. Give them a better life than he had. There may be a future plea deal (manslaughter?) — depends on evidence. It may be the best he (and we) can hope for.

 

[Jennifer17]

There's a difference in chokes. The "Hollywood" choke is mainly an airway blockage. That's what we see when we see someone strangled from the front. In UFC it's always a guillotine or rear naked which are blood constricting chokes. These focus on the blood supply to the brain.

A correctly applied blood choke will have someone unconscious before their body runs out of oxygen. Think of it like shutting down the fuel injection of an engine. Immediate shutdown ( less than 20 seconds)

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That is what all strangulation is. If you don't breathe your brain gets no oxygen from blood vessels.Do you mean if someone punches your carotid artery with a sharp blow it would kill you?

 

[Bohemian]

There's a difference in chokes. The "Hollywood" choke is mainly an airway blockage. That's what we see when we see someone strangled from the front. In UFC it's always a guillotine or rear naked which are blood constricting chokes. These focus on the blood supply to the brain.

A correctly applied blood choke will have someone unconscious before their body runs out of oxygen. Think of it like shutting down the fuel injection of an engine. Immediate shutdown ( less than 20 seconds)


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Hence the questions put to former girlfriend about ‘behaviour’.

Didn’t help Jayde’s murderer though:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-14-Aug-2015-*Arrest*&highlight=jayde+Kendall

 

[sosocurious]

Little chance. It’s time to move on and think of his children. Give them a better life than he had. There may be a future plea deal (manslaughter?) — depends on evidence. It may be the best he (and we) can hope for.

The team

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG9kNS1wxkE

 

[Bohemian]

btw IIRC this case (plus associates) is also Stary Norton Halphen’s:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?311505-Australia-Dallas-Vic-Female-Middle-Eastern-appearance-Jun-16-Zeineb-Taleb/

 

[Bohemian]

The team

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG9kNS1wxkE

Yep, I’m sure the VIC DPP know what they’re up against.

 

[SouthAussie]

When I think of Baden Clay's trial ... three top criminal lawyers involved ... Baden Clay still went down for the murder of Allison.
His lies were his downfall. Borce's lies will be his downfall. They will find the lying is inconsistent with manslaughter. imo


BBM

GERARD Baden-Clay has sought legal advice from yet another top Queensland criminal lawyer, confirming to authorities that three law firms were now helping him with his legal defence.
http://www.news.com.au/national/que...m/news-story/bcfb019e3a6c3af2e3150d9e8e696b6c

"The evidence consisted of the way in which he lied about scratches to his face, the disposal of Allison's body in the Kholo Creek and the way in which he sought to hide and dissemble with respect to what would be seen to be motivations for murder.
"Mr Baden-Clay, by saying he had no involvement in his wife's murder, that he knew nothing of the circumstances of her death, was simply cutting off any suggestion or any hypothesis that was consistent with manslaughter."
https://www.qt.com.au/news/high-court-hand-down-baden-clay-appeal-decision/3083950/

 

[Bohemian]

When I think of Baden Clay's trial ... three top criminal lawyers involved ... Baden Clay still went down for the murder of Allison.
His lies were his downfall. Borce's lies will be his downfall. They will find the lying is inconsistent with manslaughter. imo

I hope so.

 

[Unit45]

The truth will come however hard it is to hear.

Those that have said done, you reap what you sow.

 

[Trooper]

Here’s a few of his clients:

https://www.9news.com.au/national/2...rob-stary-no-stranger-to-high-profile-clients

certainly, his clients have been in the news, but not in the sense of being a comfort if one is awaiting trial.. Carl Williams got life, ( and death, someone clocked him with a toastee, , and knocked him dead , ) and Tony Mokbel ( the Gateway to Greece man ) who is still in prison and will be until he is 93.

 

[they'll get you]

That is what all strangulation is. If you don't breathe your brain gets no oxygen from blood vessels.Do you mean if someone punches your carotid artery with a sharp blow it would kill you?

Yes. Look up Phillip Hughs the cricketer.
RIP.


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[Bohemian]

certainly, his clients have been in the news, but not in the sense of being a comfort if one is awaiting trial.. Carl Williams got life, ( and death, someone clocked him with a toastee, , and knocked him dead , ) and Tony Mokbel ( the Gateway to Greece man ) who is still in prison and will be until he is 93.

Didn’t they both plead guilty? Do you think Borce will change his plea?

 

[Bohemian]

Yes. Look up Phillip Hughs the cricketer.
RIP.


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Funny you should mention Phillip. I’ve just been reading the NSW Coroner’s Findings:

http://www.coroners.justice.nsw.gov.au/Documents/Phillip Hughes Findings.pdf

 

[SouthAussie]

certainly, his clients have been in the news, but not in the sense of being a comfort if one is awaiting trial.. Carl Williams got life, ( and death, someone clocked him with a toastee, , and knocked him dead , ) and Tony Mokbel ( the Gateway to Greece man ) who is still in prison and will be until he is 93.

It is actually interesting reading about Rob Stary.
He is not so much a star, but someone who sticks with the letter of the law and allows no exaggerations .. particularly with the terrorism clients he has defended.

He also takes no crap from his clients. Makes them listen to him.

He settles matters with the police. Reduces things that mean nothing, deals on things that mean a lot.

He knows how to work the system.

His clients don't get off their charges, he just deals with them in the most efficient and effective way that he can.

http://www.theage.com.au/good-weeke...here-anything-he-regrets-20170425-gvrrmu.html


If Borce is looking for some kind of miracle with Stary, I don't think he will get it.

.

 

[they'll get you]

Funny you should mention Phillip. I’ve just been reading the NSW Coroner’s Findings:

http://www.coroners.justice.nsw.gov.au/Documents/Phillip Hughes Findings.pdf

Bones don’t need to be broken. It was necessary to point that out.
Choke-hold can stop both breathing and blood. (Front or sides).
Strangulation restricts breathing.
Or injury to throat or neck.



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[Amalgam]

That is what all strangulation is. If you don't breathe your brain gets no oxygen from blood vessels.Do you mean if someone punches your carotid artery with a sharp blow it would kill you?

As TGY describes, there are different kinds of chokes, they are not all the same, they differ in terms of the mechanism (and speed) by which they cause unconsciousness & they also differ in terms of the potential to leave forensic traces.

A frontal compression of the neck impinges upon the windpipe. This restricts or nullifies the ability to breathe. Unconsciousness takes some time to occur, as the heart is still pumping blood to the brain & even without breathing this blood will still contain a depleting amount of oxygen. Unconsciousness will occur when the blood contains insufficient oxygen to maintain awareness. Death will follow if the airway remains closed.

This style of strangulation frequently leaves forensic evidence in the form of damage to small bones and cartilage of the neck. In a body with advanced decomposition such as in Karen's case, damage to the hyoid bone would still be visible if it occurred & it often does.

Another way to achieve a very similar asphyxia is by smothering, such as with a pillow. The mechanism & time until loss of consciousness is similar, but damage to the hyoid is far less likely. Given the time it takes for unconsciousness to occur, other physical injuries may be sustained during any struggling that occurs.

A very distinct kind of choke, referred to as 'guillotine' by TGY is performed by the application of pressure to the sides of the neck. This does not put pressure on the windpipe & thus there is often no damage to the hyoid. Breathing is still possible, but the blood flow to and/or from the brain is blocked by this technique. This means the brain is no longer getting blood circulation & unconsciousness can occur very quickly - within 20 seconds is quite common. Depending on the technique used, the amount of force required can be quite low & would at most leave soft tissue damage that would be undetectable in a corpse that has decomposed significantly. Given how fast unconsciousness occurs, there is much less time for struggle related injury - one would be starting to pass out seconds after coming to terms with their predicament.

Asphyxia by pillow, or a vascular choke would've left no remaining evidence on Karen's body.

edit it to add : just to be clear, a death vascular choke will leave forensic evidence (for example tiny blood vessels at the back of the eyes will often rupture), but these traces will be lost once significant decomposition occurs.

 

[sosocurious]

So is this planned or not?

 

[SouthAussie]

So is this planned or not?

That is exactly what I was just wondering, after reading Amalgam's excellent post and descriptions of choking and smothering. I know that we got an inkling from a previous poster, now deleted, that rumoured that the police said this was a planned murder.

Makes me wonder what other Google searches may have been found on that iPad. Perhaps information similar to what is contained in Amalgam's post?

Amalgam, in any of these methods that you have mentioned, is there a possibility for blood spillage from the body? Even without any other damage to Karen or her murderer?
In your opinion, of course.

.