Found Deceased Australia - Karen Ristevski, 47, Melbourne, Vic, 29 June 2016 - #7

[Amalgam]

Either that, or they have somehow determined that Karen was likely killed on the night of 28th June (as some of us have wondered), and Borce's phone pinged there that night too.

Maybe a neighbour heard a commotion on the night of the 28th ... or someone rang their home and Karen wasn't available ... or she didn't show up for an arranged dinner with a friend.

One thing is for sure, police have a lot of data on this guy and this murder.

From The Age "Ms Ristevski's mobile phone was traced to a tower on the Calder Highway near Gisborne, not far from Mount Macedon and 40 kilometres north-west of her family home, just hours after she vanished.On the same night, Mr Ristevski's phone was detected by another tower on Calder Highway near Diggers Rest."

Whilst I agree that any foul play at the Ristevski residence may well have occurred on the night of the 28th, the timing of the phone pings according to the article quoted claim that Borce's phone pinged a tower on the Calder, near Digger's Rest, on "that same night" as the day Karen vanished. The media has invariably and uniformly treated Karen as 'vanished' from the point in time on the morning of the 29th where Borce claims she went for a walk to clear her head, so they are saying the pings in question happened at night on the 29th.

The timeline seems to be Karen allegedly leaving for a walk to clear her head at 9:30am on the 29th, her phone pinging at a tower near Gisbourne on the Calder "just hours after", and Borce's phone pinging near Digger's Rest on the Calder that night.

So whist I certainly agree that Karen's murder may well have occurred on the 28th of June, I do not think it is tenable to read into this Age article (or others stating much the same thing re the timing of the phone pings) that Borce's phone pinged on the Calder on the night of the 28th.

 

[SouthAussie]

From The Age "Ms Ristevski's mobile phone was traced to a tower on the Calder Highway near Gisborne, not far from Mount Macedon and 40 kilometres north-west of her family home, just hours after she vanished.On the same night, Mr Ristevski's phone was detected by another tower on Calder Highway near Diggers Rest."

Whilst I agree that any foul play at the Ristevski residence may well have occurred on the night of the 28th, the timing of the phone pings according to the article quoted claim that Borce's phone pinged a tower on the Calder, near Digger's Rest, on "that same night" as the day Karen vanished. The media has invariably and uniformly treated Karen as 'vanished' from the point in time on the morning of the 29th where Borce claims she went for a walk to clear her head, so they are saying the pings in question happened at night on the 29th.

The timeline seems to be Karen allegedly leaving for a walk to clear her head at 9:30am on the 29th, her phone pinging at a tower near Gisbourne on the Calder "just hours after", and Borce's phone pinging near Digger's Rest on the Calder that night.

So whist I certainly agree that Karen's murder may well have occurred on the 28th of June, I do not think it is tenable to read into this Age article (or others stating much the same thing re the timing of the phone pings) that Borce's phone pinged on the Calder on the night of the 28th.

Whereas I do believe it is tenable. As the police may have said it happened on the same day ... and they may know that was the evening/night of the 28th. But they have not revealed that to the media.
So the media is going with Borce's tale that Karen left on 29th ... unseen by neighbours, unseen by the neighbour's CCTV, unseen by other riverside park walkers, unseen by anyone in the Mt Macedon area, unseen by anyone at all ... at a time of day when people are out and about.

For all we know it all happened much earlier, and Borce spent the next day settling himself, tying up loose ends (purse etc).
He just forgot the shoes .... what shoes was Karen 'wearing'.

Hence my above question about the timing of the CCTV where someone was seen driving Karen's car.

 

[Amalgam]

Remember when Karen's car was caught on CCTV leaving the house, and again on other CCTV (I think)? I have the impression that was at night, though I could be wrong about that. They were trying to enhance the video and see who was in the car.


And remember this too? .....

POLICE are reportedly sending a piece of evidence to the United States they hope will help unlock the Karen Ristevski mystery.
A Victoria Police spokeswoman today refused to confirm to news.com.au what the evidence was its significance to the investigation. “We will not be providing a running commentary on the case.”
http://www.news.com.au/national/vic...y/news-story/3e09b11c2d66110e1627fd0e37848db5

To the best of my recollection, a few weeks after her disappearance the MSM reported that footage of Karen's Mercedes leaving their street on the morning of the 29th having been found on a neighbour's CCTV & that police were hoping to have the footage enhanced to determine the identity of occupant(s) of the car.

I also remember that the police shortly thereafter stated that they were examining CCTV footage from service stations & other locations (retail outlets, possibly a general store, I think) in the Digger's Rest/Toolern Vale area.

At the same time the police said they were tracking down all cars that matched Karen's Mercedes & looking to determine their location on the day(s) of interest. This suggested to me that they saw a car like Karen's on CCTV in the Digger's Rest/Toolern Vale area & were seeking to eliminate all other identical vehicles, hence proving the vehicle in the footage was indeed Karen's.

I recall no mention of nighttime CCTV footage & am pretty sure I would if it was mentioned.

Not long after that, the media stated that some evidence tied to this case was being sent to the USA and it was speculated (but never confirmed) here at websleuths that it might be CCTV footage that was sent.

 

[JLZ]

That is so strange. I thought Borce only "remembered" the fuel gauge story when told about the pings. Even if he wasn't told the time of the pings, he must know when he was up the Calder, and that telling of a morning trip wouldn't explain pings which must have happened at night. Even if police led him to think that he'd been seen or videoed in the area on the 29th, rather than pinged--same problem. Could someone else have been using his phone and car?

I wonder if the reporter is only conjecturing that the pings were at night to fit in with the witness reports about night shovellers. But I don't think anybody's claimed to see a shoveller or mysterious van as early as 29th June.

 

[SouthAussie]

I guess I just see all of this being more likely to have happened at night .... for him to have managed everything virtually unseen.

And it seems that many/most incidences like this happen at night, when people are tired, and fights more easily happen, the kids are asleep or away, and witnesses are few.

 

[Puggle]

Has anybody found any more info on this "Notorious Loan Shark" Borce apparently sought funding from on at least two occasions.....

If he is innocent .... there being some sort of retribution for unpaid debt is a scenario I have thought of. Meetings could have been arranged in diggers or macedon... and Karen held for ransom ... something went pear shaped??

Im not sure where someone would come into contact with such a person ..... you would probably have to be xonnected or have connections with people that mingle in those circles of corrupt persons to begin with?

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/k...y-that-gripped-melbourne-20170220-guh7mq.html

 

[Amalgam]

I guess I just see all of this being more likely to have happened at night .... for him to have managed everything virtually unseen.

And it seems that many/most incidences like this happen at night, when people are tired, and fights more easily happen, the kids are asleep or away, and witnesses are few.

As stated already, I definitely agree that it's more likely that any foul play at the Ristevski residence happened at night.

That said, whilst human witnesses may be less likely and less accurate in the dark, CCTV cameras near the Ristevski home have no such disadvantage at night. Most see quite well at night, and those that don't will still have faithfully recorded any comings or goings of any relevant vehicles. So the police should be well aware of any trips taken using any relevant vehicles that started from the Ristevski home.

Whilst I readily accept the possibility that Karen met her end on the 28th of June, I think it's quite likely the disposal of her body happened the next day. That ties in nicely with the drive Borce took in Karen's car, that he just happened to forget until confronted with phone ping data. Once confronted, he explained it away by saying it was to address a fuel gauge problem, a claim that has been thoroughly debunked. Early reports of the fuel gauge claim said Borce claimed to be taking the car to a mechanic to get it looked at, I wonder if he can prove that he was booked in with a mechanic that day?

What interests and confuses me is that if Borce's phone pinged on the Calder at night on the 29th & it was being confronted with the phone ping evidence that triggered his memory of driving Karen's car between about 10am & 12:30pm, then perhaps his phone was detected out that way twice? Once in Karen's car during the morning of the 29th & again at night the same day, perhaps on another vehicle? There is also the 2 hour period that day where his phone was switched off, but I've seen no indication of what time that happened.

Another pointer in my mind towards the disposal operation happening on the 29th, as opposed to the night before is Karen's phone pinging out towards where she was found on the 29th.

 

[Poirot's niece]

The Australian reported that Mr Riestevski told police he went for a drive just half an hour after his wife walked out of the house and was on the road from 10.30am until about midday.

http://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/news/will-mobile-phone-pings-lead-police-to-the-body-of-karen-ristevski/news-

story/260b168c1f12bfa5569a2db5ded7b713

Ill see if i can find the actual ping times

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

This doesn't rule out drives or pickups the evening of the 28th and the early morning of the 29th without either phones. Also, I did wonder in what I think is the highly unlikely event that Karen took her own life that night, (VERY UNLIKELY, but not impossible) perhaps BR was worried that her life insurance payout would be void. I know some policies exempt suicide for a set time frame, but not all, and some are fine print bastardry in this area.

 

[Amalgam]

Thinking further her about the points I raised above, perhaps Borce disposed of the body, phone and handbag on his morning/early afternoon drive on the 29th, and then (maybe with help) moved the body further away that night?

That would explain evidence collected in Toolern Vale & the body near Mt Macedon.

I need to go back and read news reports from several months ago regarding the phone pings. I have a niggling hunch that Borce's phone was said to have pinged twice in the area in question. Perhaps one was during the day, the other at night.

 

[SouthAussie]

Thinking further her about the points I raised above, perhaps Borce disposed of the body, phone and handbag on his morning/early afternoon drive on the 29th, and then (maybe with help) moved the body further away that night?

That would explain evidence collected in Toolern Vale & the body near Mt Macedon.

I need to go back and read news reports from several months ago regarding the phone pings. I have a niggling hunch that Borce's phone was said to have pinged twice in the area in question. Perhaps one was during the day, the other at night.

Here is some old info about both phones ......BBM

Mr Ristevski alleged theory comes as telecommunications data emerged over the weekend showing Mrs Ristevski’s phone was detected in a series of pings on the Calder Highway, 40km northwest of Melbourne, several hours after her husband said she left their home to go for a walk.

Mr Ristevski’s phone was also tracked on the highway, about 20km from their home. The data suggests his phone was switched off for two hours that day.

http://www.themercury.com.au/news/n...e/news-story/bde16dab39e3411dd87c658a45a97474


There have been reports Ms Ristevski's phone pinged on towers on the Calder Highway and at Gisborne on the day she went missing.
http://www.bordermail.com.au/story/...rried-from-karen-ristevski-search-area/?cs=12

 

[Amalgam]

Also, I did wonder in what I think is the highly unlikely event that Karen took her own life that night, (VERY UNLIKELY, but not impossible) perhaps BR was worried that her life insurance payout would be void. I know some policies exempt suicide for a set time frame, but not all, and some are fine print bastardry in this area.

Seems implausible to me. If the body is missing, the person isn't declared officially dead until 7 or 8 years later & therefore no insurance payout until then. On top of that, Borce would've had to either wait out those years, counting on the body never being found or count on the body being found, but with no evidence leading back to him. Borce doesn't strike me as particularly brilliant, but he doesn't seem quite that dumb, either.

 

[Puggle]

As stated already, I definitely agree that it's more likely that any foul play at the Ristevski residence happened at night.

That said, whilst human witnesses may be less likely and less accurate in the dark, CCTV cameras near the Ristevski home have no such disadvantage at night. Most see quite well at night, and those that don't will still have faithfully recorded any comings or goings of any relevant vehicles. So the police should be well aware of any trips taken using any relevant vehicles that started from the Ristevski home.

Whilst I readily accept the possibility that Karen met her end on the 28th of June, I think it's quite likely the disposal of her body happened the next day. That ties in nicely with the drive Borce took in Karen's car, that he just happened to forget until confronted with phone ping data. Once confronted, he explained it away by saying it was to address a fuel gauge problem, a claim that has been thoroughly debunked. Early reports of the fuel gauge claim said Borce claimed to be taking the car to a mechanic to get it looked at, I wonder if he can prove that he was booked in with a mechanic that day?

What interests and confuses me is that if Borce's phone pinged on the Calder at night on the 29th & it was being confronted with the phone ping evidence that triggered his memory of driving Karen's car between about 10am & 12:30pm, then perhaps his phone was detected out that way twice? Once in Karen's car during the morning of the 29th & again at night the same day, perhaps on another vehicle? There is also the 2 hour period that day where his phone was switched off, but I've seen no indication of what time that happened.

Another pointer in my mind towards the disposal operation happening on the 29th, as opposed to the night before is Karen's phone pinging out towards where she was found on the 29th.

The whole thing with one media stating it pinged at night. ...should be weighed up against all the other media that said "same day" .....

One of the news articles I read on this forum the other day mentioned Anthony asking for money for interview...and said Chris Ristevski also asked for money...

Some weeding out of msm stories for truth...exaggeration. .. or simple mistakes. ..
Needs to be considered...

 

[Puggle]

Here is some old info about both phones ......BBM

Mr Ristevski alleged theory comes as telecommunications data emerged over the weekend showing Mrs Ristevski’s phone was detected in a series of pings on the Calder Highway, 40km northwest of Melbourne, several hours after her husband said she left their home to go for a walk.

Mr Ristevski’s phone was also tracked on the highway, about 20km from their home. The data suggests his phone was switched off for two hours that day.

http://www.themercury.com.au/news/n...e/news-story/bde16dab39e3411dd87c658a45a97474


There have been reports Ms Ristevski's phone pinged on towers on the Calder Highway and at Gisborne on the day she went missing.
http://www.bordermail.com.au/story/...rried-from-karen-ristevski-search-area/?cs=12

When people said the word "several" in the past ..... I literally thought they meant 7 hours later........so just in case anyone else is a bit thick like me at times......it actually means a few hours later...

 

[SouthAussie]

This doesn't rule out drives or pickups the evening of the 28th and the early morning of the 29th without either phones. Also, I did wonder in what I think is the highly unlikely event that Karen took her own life that night, (VERY UNLIKELY, but not impossible) perhaps BR was worried that her life insurance payout would be void. I know some policies exempt suicide for a set time frame, but not all, and some are fine print bastardry in this area.

There was something we found, a long time ago, about missing persons though.
There have been issues with the missing person's money being inaccessible. So a ruling had been put in place for a court to free up funds for families to pay mortgages and other bills/debts without waiting 7 years.
Too tired now to go back and find links. But the info is out there, and we had put it under consideration as a way to access any monies Karen may have had from her inheritance or otherwise.

 

[Puggle]

Just throwing another oddball idea out there...

Goes with the gambling idea also...

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...s/news-story/953fe5b1ecf1edaa7fac009a3258d11d

 

[Amalgam]

The whole thing with one media stating it pinged at night. ...should be weighed up against all the other media that said "same day" .....

One of the news articles I read on this forum the other day mentioned Anthony asking for money for interview...and said Chris Ristevski also asked for money...

Some weeding out of msm stories for truth...exaggeration. .. or simple mistakes. ..
Needs to be considered...

I very much agree with what you are saying, but it isn't just one article that mentions a ping being at night. Ever since Karen's body was found, any reference to the pings has mentioned a ping with Borce's phone being at night.

That said, it would only take one article to place a ping at night for all subsequent articles that mention phone pings to then run with that.

The information may be inaccurate, but it has surfaced in more than one article. It could be accurate & be new detail from the police, released in the hope of placing further pressure on the offender, or it may be a mistake by one journalist that has since been perpetuated elsewhere, including by me.

 

[Amalgam]

There was something we found, a long time ago, about missing persons though.
There have been issues with the missing person's money being inaccessible. So a ruling had been put in place for a court to free up funds for families to pay mortgages and other bills/debts without waiting 7 years.
Too tired now to go back and find links. But the info is out there, and we had put it under consideration as a way to access any monies Karen may have had from her inheritance or otherwise.

I wasn't aware of such legislation & that would provide motive to access Karen's inheritance.

A payout of life insurance, as raised by Poirot's niece, would still require a person declared dead, which would take 7 years if the body isn't found.

 

[Puggle]

I very much agree with what you are saying, but it isn't just one article that mentions a ping being at night. Ever since Karen's body was found, any reference to the pings has mentioned a ping with Borce's phone being at night.

That said, it would only take one article to place a ping at night for all subsequent articles that mention phone pings to then run with that.

The information may be inaccurate, but it has surfaced in more than one article. It could be accurate & be new detail from the police, released in the hope of placing further pressure on the offender, or it may be a mistake by one journalist that has since been perpetuated elsewhere, including by me.

What you said about one media outlet picks up on another and just runs with the same storyline ......

I have seen that way to many times ..... hence the caution not to take what is printed as being set in stone....

Sometimes the smaller outlets just simply reword and regurgitate a larger organizations release...

Others may even bookmark a credit to the original msm source ...... which they all should be doing...but dont.

So its really a guessing game I suppose.

 

[Puggle]

Like SouthAussie .... my brain is too tired to think...

Peace out.

Puggle xx

 

[Amalgam]

What you said about one media outlet picks up on another and just runs with the same storyline ......

I have seen that way to many times ..... hence the caution not to take what is printed as being set in stone....

Sometimes the smaller outlets just simply reword and regurgitate a larger organizations release...

Others may even bookmark a credit to the original msm source ...... which they all should be doing...but dont.

So its really a guessing game I suppose.

I couldn't agree more. What I've written all hinges on the quoted phone ping times being accurate. They may be accurate, they may not & that applies to all of the finer details of the case we discuss here - we all rely on the media for our 'facts'.

Me too. If I don't get to bed shortly, I'm in danger of waking up where I'm sitting now... Peace out.