Found Deceased Australia - Karen Ristevski, 47, Melbourne, Vic, 29 June 2016 - #9

[Puggle]

Hmm i have to disagree there. I think lots of planned murders end up with the body being found

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Can you give some examples.....

 

[Estelle]

Hmm i have to disagree there. I think lots of planned murders end up with the body being found

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Yes I agree with you. Karen's death could still have been premeditated with no exact time anticipated. In other words, just waiting for an opportunity - perhaps when Sarah was not around. The murderer if it was BR probably did not think past that thought except for thinking that he could say she went on a walk and did not come back and become a missing person. IMO once the deed was done, I predict that BR consulted VR as to the possible best place to hide the body and it was VR who came up with her eventual resting place and helped BR to carry the body there from the car. VR then decided that he would implant the idea that KR went off to China with a faked passport to at least protect himself.

BTW we have not been told if forensics have been done on the car yet to prove that KR was dead or alive in the car. But I predict that this removal of KR's body (at least to her car) was done the night before when the supposed argument actually happened after SR went to bed - unless she was also involved. Then the drive to supposedly correct the fuel gauge was done to drop off the body by picking up VR first and taking it to its final resting place which VR had recommended. This to me also poses the question of VR's relationship with KR and why he should be so willing to support his brother against KR. I therefore also wonder what KR's relationship with VR was like. Was it more than brother loyalty but he also had problems with KR which would be worth pursuing?

 

[Amalgam]

Haven't actually seen a direct quote from police in this case for a very long time....so I'd speculate this is just a journo spin.....

Last quoted police statement was the speculation wasn't helping their case or invesigation...

This article attributes a statement that Karen's murder was unplanned to the police. "Police believe the killing was unplanned."

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/f...secution-top-lawyer-says-20170223-gujq1x.html

I'm off to bed...again...Damn insomnia!

 

[Puggle]

This article attributes a statement that Karen's murder was unplanned to the police. "Police believe the killing was unplanned."

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/f...secution-top-lawyer-says-20170223-gujq1x.html

I'm off to bed...again...Damn insomnia!

Yes know insomnia well....x

I'm probably a stickler for direct quotes..... No direct quotation marks saying police believe the killing was unplanned....so not attributed to any specific source within the police force..

That said.... IMO .... this was an unplanned murder

 

[Puggle]

Yes I agree with you. Karen's death could still have been premeditated with no exact time anticipated. In other words, just waiting for an opportunity - perhaps when Sarah was not around. The murderer if it was BR probably did not think past that thought except for thinking that he could say she went on a walk and did not come back and become a missing person. IMO once the deed was done, I predict that BR consulted VR as to the possible best place to hide the body and it was VR who came up with her eventual resting place and helped BR to carry the body there from the car. VR then decided that he would implant the idea that KR went off to China with a faked passport to at least protect himself.

BTW we have not been told if forensics have been done on the car yet to prove that KR was dead or alive in the car. But I predict that this removal of KR's body (at least to her car) was done the night before when the supposed argument actually happened after SR went to bed - unless she was also involved. Then the drive to supposedly correct the fuel gauge was done to drop off the body by picking up VR first and taking it to its final resting place which VR had recommended. This to me also poses the question of VR's relationship with KR and why he should be so willing to support his brother against KR. I therefore also wonder what KR's relationship with VR was like. Was it more than brother loyalty but he also had problems with KR which would be worth pursuing?

Ahhhh.....you just reminded me....two cars were taken for testing.

We have an isider who has been doing drive by's of the home...

Has Karen's car been returned to the family.......I haven't seen any evidence of her car at the home in media pics....

Where's Karen's Car ???

 

[SouthAussie]

This article attributes a statement that Karen's murder was unplanned to the police. "Police believe the killing was unplanned."

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/f...secution-top-lawyer-says-20170223-gujq1x.html

I'm off to bed...again...Damn insomnia!

There is also this .....

Victoria's former top homicide investigator, Charlie Bezzina, on Wednesday told Nine Network's Today Show the crime scene indicated the suspected murder seemed 'personal' and 'unplanned'.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11806314


I think it goes along with how Karen was found. Not found easily - as in, dumped somewhere to be found. But still found - so not concealed particularly well. A sort of 'in between' situation. The murderer did not want her found, but didn't have the time, smarts, and/or ability to do a decent job in that regard.

.

 

[SouthAussie]

Unlike the arrogant, child-sex-abusing John Chardon, who seems to have disposed of his wife, Novy, particularly well.

THE body of missing Gold Coast woman Novy Chardon may never be found, despite her husband John yesterday being charged with her murder.
http://www.goldcoastbulletin.com.au...r/news-story/b5f157c6081700976f8b71dc539cf262

 

[Itsapuzzle]

All this talk about loan sharks stems from one line in a couple of news articles, but if you read it properly it says 'sought', 'tried', it doesn't actually say he got the loan. I think it was mentioned in the news story merely to infer that BR was getting desperate for cash, just my opinion.

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[sydney1]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4291890/Untold-story-Karen-Ristevski-Borce-s-romance.html

Ok so I just did some maths, if I am correct in saying that AR is 32? AR was born in 1985, this looks like KR and BR first met a year later in 1986 when she was 16, he proposed in late 80s.. Sarah was born when she was 26..

So that will clear up any confusion that I have seen re AR being result of an affair etc.. have spotted it in some posts way back...

 

[Puggle]

There is also this .....

Victoria's former top homicide investigator, Charlie Bezzina, on Wednesday told Nine Network's Today Show the crime scene indicated the suspected murder seemed 'personal' and 'unplanned'.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11806314


I think it goes along with how Karen was found. Not found easily - as in, dumped somewhere to be found. But still found - so not concealed particularly well. A sort of 'in between' situation. The murderer did not want her found, but didn't have the time, smarts, and/or ability to do a decent job in that regard.

.

So are they saying it was the covering of logs on top of the body that made it personal?

I totally get the unplanned bit.... just not understanding the personal bit though. ...

Any ideas...

 

[decsimp]

Can you give some examples.....

Sharpe family murders is one that comes to mind

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[Puggle]

All this talk about loan sharks stems from one line in a couple of news articles, but if you read it properly it says 'sought', 'tried', it doesn't actually say he got the loan. I think it was mentioned in the news story merely to infer that BR was getting desperate for cash, just my opinion.

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I get what your saying ....

In this article (link) The journo has written that Borce had sought funding from a notorious Melbourne Loan Shark on at least two occassions.

Now that's a pretty specific thing to say .... just to infer they were struggling with money issues...



http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/k...y-that-gripped-melbourne-20170220-guh7mq.html

 

[Itsapuzzle]

I get what your saying ....

In this article (link) The journo has written that Borce had sought funding from a notorious Melbourne Loan Shark on at least two occassions.

Now that's a pretty specific thing to say .... just to infer they were struggling with money issues...

Also, Puggle, it doesn't say when he tried to get the loans .... could have been years and years ago, who knows!

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[sosocurious]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4291890/Untold-story-Karen-Ristevski-Borce-s-romance.html

Ok so I just did some maths, if I am correct in saying that AR is 32? AR was born in 1985, this looks like KR and BR first met a year later in 1986 when she was 16, he proposed in late 80s.. Sarah was born when she was 26..

So that will clear up any confusion that I have seen re AR being result of an affair etc.. have spotted it in some posts way back...

Williamstown Cemetery records up. KR DOB - 7 Feb 1969.
Therefore if she was 16 when she met BR. She met him between Feb 1984 and Feb 1985.

If AR was 32 years as mentioned in July 2016 article.
Then he was born before July 1984.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vic...4c0a6ee67f533f
imo

 

[Puggle]

Sharpe family murders is one that comes to mind

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Thanks...

Ewww what a filthy pig that guy was .....

Ohh what was that other guy ... killed his mum and step dad ...

Yep... your right ...I think he planned (not very well obviously) their murder and they found their bodies too..

If you have anymore ?? ...... Its good to look back to see what can be gleamed from similar or sorta similar crimes.

 

[sydney1]

Ok my calculations were a year out but we can put the wondering to bed at least.

Edit: I see what I did.. I calculated from 2017, when in fact it should have been from 2016 due to time of death.

So I go back to an original point I think I made on my very first post, AR is just put out that KR took his dad IMO .. Rambling bullcrap all over social media.. I disregard him and his stories.

 

[Puggle]

Also, Puggle, it doesn't say when he tried to get the loans .... could have been years and years ago, who knows!

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Very true Itsapuzzle. ......

I have to admit I am curious why an "Age" reporter just sort of popped that in the article..... when it hadn't been suggested before.

 

[matey]

Thanks Westside_Sleuth. Some of the theories bandied about here, albeit hyperthetical, are just ridiculous. Mafia, loan sharks, the infamous 'they'. Seriously??

If any of these types were involved in Karen's murder (and IMO the police do believe Karen was murdered), her body would never have been found, ever!

IMO Karen was murdered by her husband in a fit of rage with no premediation whatsoever. BR then enlisted his brother VR to assist with the disposal of Karen's body, which was hidden elsewhere before it was eventually dumped where it was found.

Yay Makara...Exactly...but why is it taking so long for arrests to be made, when we know who is responsibe for Karen's death?

 

[matey]

Another thing I noticed about this presser, the police usually provide some kind of support and protection for the family. But in this case, they just sort of left them to the wolves - even though there was at least one detective at the scene. Interesting.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ourne-woman-Karen-Ristevski-murdered-her.html

Borce > guilt.....Sarah > fear and grief.....

Patrice > support (at that stage)....MOO

 

[mammon73]

What if the pings on KR phone were manufactured by LE to media to try and stimulate some action among a suspect pool - similar to Jill Meagher/Adrian Bayley case - with no outcome?