Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #2

[thunderwombat]

I’m also leaning towards this - especially since re-listening to the episode with the bank manager for Commonwealth and the other lady who remembered the procedures from back then. I don’t think there was any reason for her to take $5k out at a time. I’m pretty sure they explained she could have taken any amount out and would have had to show the same identification and gotten the same approval from a bank manager whether it was $5k or $50k. To me, that would line up with some odd behaviour from a mental breakdown. It actually strikes me as quite paranoid.

You could take out your entire savings at once but not in cash. It would have to be as a cheque, or transfer to another banking institution. Marion wanted cash for a reason only known to her, and took out the maximum allowed daily. 1997 was the year my own father died and towards the end he took out large sums of cash, for various reasons. I'd go into the bank with him each time (old school, he didn't even have an ATM card) and never once was he questioned by the teller, or needed approval from a manager.

 

[Mel 1303]

Is this (Ashmore) a different account from the one the withdrawals of $5K a day were from? I'm not clear whether the withdrawals were from Byron Bay and Burleigh Heads but the account may have been held in either or neither of those places. I'm wondering how it was ascertained that the withdrawals were done over the counter (Sally thinking the teller had a peculiar expression seems a little inadequate). Could the bank have been saying that withdrawals were made from Byron Bay and Burleigh Heads accounts, without specifying where the over-the-counter transaction took place, or even whether it was instead an account-to-account transfer?

Sorry if this is very ignorant. There's no way I'm listening to multiple podcasts due to deafness.

Yes, this is a different account. The $5000 increments were coming from the Commonwealth Bank, mostly in Byron Bay with a few in the middle at Burleigh Heads. In episode 4, the Salvo's letter was discussed. Marion had been identified withdrawing the balance of her account from a different bank, being the Colonial bank at Ashmore (I am paraphrasing- this was over the episode). Sally didn't know about that account, and I believe this is what lead to the confusion later, about where she banked.

I have yet to relisten to the bank conversation, but there was detail in there about Marion having provided two different dates of birth. Most people know their birthdays. Was she muddying the waters? I believe it is highly likely that she was.

You are absolutely not ignorant. This is a discussion board- you can ask as many questions as you like! If you have issues with hearing, that makes it even harder! As I relisten, I have been taking notes. Will type them up and share them, if that makes it easier.

 

[Mel 1303]

You could take out your entire savings at once but not in cash. It would have to be as a cheque, or transfer to another banking institution. Marion wanted cash for a reason only known to her, and took out the maximum allowed daily. 1997 was the year my own father died and towards the end he took out large sums of cash, for various reasons. I'd go into the bank with him each time (old school, he didn't even have an ATM card) and never once was he questioned by the teller, or needed approval from a manager.

Yep, the $5K was the max you could take in a day in cash. If she transferred the money to another account, or got a bank check, there would be a paper trail. Cash gives a person much more anonymous.

 

[JLZ]

Yes, this is a different account. The $5000 increments were coming from the Commonwealth Bank, mostly in Byron Bay with a few in the middle at Burleigh Heads. In episode 4, the Salvo's letter was discussed. Marion had been identified withdrawing the balance of her account from a different bank, being the Colonial bank at Ashmore (I am paraphrasing- this was over the episode). Sally didn't know about that account, and I believe this is what lead to the confusion later, about where she banked.

I have yet to relisten to the bank conversation, but there was detail in there about Marion having provided two different dates of birth. Most people know their birthdays. Was she muddying the waters? I believe it is highly likely that she was.

You are absolutely not ignorant. This is a discussion board- you can ask as many questions as you like! If you have issues with hearing, that makes it even harder! As I relisten, I have been taking notes. Will type them up and share them, if that makes it easier.

" . . . who claimed Marion withdrew the balance of her account at the Ashmore branch on October 15, 1990, and 'spoke of starting a new life'." https://7news.com.au/original-fyi/t...line-of-marion-barters-disappearance-c-200848

Is 1990 a misprint? Or are the Salvos uncovering something in 1998 that happened 8 years earlier?

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

Just thinking about the sale of Marion’s house. I wonder if the real estate agent and the the solicitor handling the sale were contacted at all. They may have had a snippet of info from Marion re reason for sale and future plans?

Marion seems to have been very private about her personal life, even with her daughter. Ray Barter described her as not being one to open up. So I'm not sure Marion would have said anything different to the solicitor, bank staff or the real estate agent than a variation of the story she told her family (going on an extended adventure in the UK).

 

[Mel 1303]

" . . . who claimed Marion withdrew the balance of her account at the Ashmore branch on October 15, 1990, and 'spoke of starting a new life'." https://7news.com.au/original-fyi/t...line-of-marion-barters-disappearance-c-200848

Is 1990 a misprint? Or are the Salvos uncovering something in 1998 that happened 8 years earlier?

Misprint. She didn't even live there in 1990.

ETA- In the podcast, they questioned how it could be a misprint, given that 7 and 0 are not near each other on the keyboard. I imagine whoever typed the letter was typing up someone elses notes. Easy for mistakes to happen, especially with numbers.

 

[JLZ]

Misprint. She didn't even live there in 1990.

ETA- In the podcast, they questioned how it could be a misprint, given that 7 and 0 are not near each other on the keyboard. I imagine whoever typed the letter was typing up someone elses notes. Easy for mistakes to happen, especially with numbers.

So the misprint was in the letter from the Salvos, not made by the news organization/podcast people? Have SA confirmed that it was a misprint? Otherwise it might be a mistake in their investigation, where they've picked up on the account of a different person with the same name, closed in 1990.

 

[Mel 1303]

Marion seems to have been very private about her personal life, even with her daughter. Ray Barter described her as not being one to open up. So I'm not sure Marion would have said anything different to the solicitor, bank staff or the real estate agent than a variation of the story she told her family (going on an extended adventure in the UK).

Absolutely. I think there is one exception at the bank though- someone there seemed able to contact her after. She spoke of starting a new life while withdrawing the balance of her account, but later is able to say to stop looking in Byron Bay, and that she is cranky about the car.

I really think someone on the gold coast must have helped her. I doubt very much that it was Lesley Loveday- if she knew the arrangements, she would have been able to take Marion to the airport, rather than the bus- especially when it sounds like she had heaps of luggage. If Lesley had come to the airport, she may have learnt that Marion was flying under a different name- therefore the bus. Can you imagine being on a bus with all that gear? Nightmare- no way would I knock back the lift.

 

[Mel 1303]

So the misprint was in the letter from the Salvos, not made by the news organization/podcast people? Have SA confirmed that it was a misprint? Otherwise it might be a mistake in their investigation, where they've picked up on the account of a different person with the same name, closed in 1990.

I am pretty sure it is in the letter- which was thought to be lost, but was found by Sally's cousin after the podcast started. Salvo's have been unable to find the original file, so far.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

I’m also leaning towards this - especially since re-listening to the episode with the bank manager for Commonwealth and the other lady who remembered the procedures from back then. I don’t think there was any reason for her to take $5k out at a time. I’m pretty sure they explained she could have taken any amount out and would have had to show the same identification and gotten the same approval from a bank manager whether it was $5k or $50k. To me, that would line up with some odd behaviour from a mental breakdown. It actually strikes me as quite paranoid.

She does seem to have been a bit paranoid (feeling persecuted at TSS, not trusting family/friends with her plans). Although she was in general functioning pretty well

The 5k amounts could be to remain under the FTRA (Financial Transactions Reporting Act) reporting threshold. Triggering the reporting would create a link between Marion and Florabella making her easier to locate.

 

[Mel 1303]

I did promise pics from Armidale from around the bike track and the university. Bushfires are hampering access- I will do it though.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

This website has a lot of tips on disappearing- some of it is modern, but much of it comes from a book written in 1995. We have referenced it here before.
How To Disappear Completely – The Great Vanishing Act
It is a bit eerie how similar some of the tips are to Marion's own actions. Someone mentioned earlier that maybe Marion was ill- potentially terminally, and that impacted on her choice to walk away. Quite possibly. Maybe mentally ill- some kind of breakdown? Breakdowns were mentioned at least twice in the podcast- once when she split with Johnny Warren, according to John Econ, and once when she found out the pilot was due to marry someone else.
The timing of her disappearance is interesting for me. In episode 5, Marion's will was described. She was leaving more to Sally than to Owen, as Owen lived with his father. He was being looked after by someone else. Sally had just become engaged to Chris- she now had someone else to look after her.

Thanks for the link! Wow!

 

[Mel 1303]

So apparently Marion went to Balmain for college, not Wagga??

I’m so confused.. Wouldn’t the CV that Sally has, have where she went to teachers college on it?

I’d still be interested to know which years she attended. Wish we had a better timeline of her life before her disappearance.

P.S I listened to Conversations 16, disappointing that the year of the Armidale tip was mixed up. I still think it could be relevant, it’s just a shame that we know now it could potentially be a hoax.

Oh come on, we have asked this question so many times, and have been told absolutely that she went to Wagga Wagga, despite it being clear that she was not listed in a single Wagga Wagga graduation ceremony and despite their being a newspaper article predating the podcast stating that Sally was looking for people who might remember her mother from Armidale teachers college. Now its Balmain???? Which actually makes a lot of sense, and lines up with the article someone posted up thread about Marion being a teacher (not training to be) who had been transferred to Wagga Wagga Dem school.

ETA- and here is, I guess, why Websleuths has the capacity for people to become verified insiders. We have been told things by posters who have said they came from Sally- like that her mother definitely went to Wagga, and that the journalist in Armidale had all sorts of wrong information. I should have asked them about being a verified insider, rather than just believing it.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

I really think someone on the gold coast must have helped her. I doubt very much that it was Lesley Loveday- if she knew the arrangements, she would have been able to take Marion to the airport, rather than the bus- especially when it sounds like she had heaps of luggage. If Lesley had come to the airport, she may have learnt that Marion was flying under a different name- therefore the bus. Can you imagine being on a bus with all that gear? Nightmare- no way would I knock back the lift.

Me too - I'd get a taxi and hang the cost! Yes totally agree Lesley couldnt have been in on it, but someone was.

I wonder how long she stayed on that bus?? She couldnt have managed all that stuff on her own. I tend to think (although theres nothing which supports this) that she got off the bus before the airport and was met by someone with a car. Together they took some/most of her stuff to her storage container and then went to the airport together.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

Oh come on, we have asked this question so many times, and have been told absolutely that she went to Wagga Wagga, despite it being clear that she was not listed in a single Wagga Wagga graduation ceremony and despite their being a newspaper article predating the podcast stating that Sally was looking for people who might remember her mother from Armidale teachers college. Now its Balmain???? Which actually makes a lot of sense, and lines up with the article someone posted up thread about Marion being a teacher (not training to be) who had been transferred to Wagga Wagga Dem school.

If Sally has been in semi-regular contact with her Mums friend from college, you'd think this should have been a fairly simple fact to check!

 

[alleycat13]

Ohhh okay, thanks guys for cleaning up the 5k withdrawal limit! I must have been a bit confused.

Oh come on, we have asked this question so many times, and have been told absolutely that she went to Wagga Wagga, despite it being clear that she was not listed in a single Wagga Wagga graduation ceremony and despite their being a newspaper article predating the podcast stating that Sally was looking for people who might remember her mother from Armidale teachers college. Now its Balmain???? Which actually makes a lot of sense, and lines up with the article someone posted up thread about Marion being a teacher (not training to be) who had been transferred to Wagga Wagga Dem school.

I know right!! I understand there’s a lot of info but it’s just one piece of info they kept correcting everyone with, you would have assumed it would be the right bit of info!!

 

[KiwiNZ]

Didn’t Sally state in one of the pod casts that the reference to Marion’s comments about been angry about the car may not have happened and that her grandfather may have been confused about a conversation Sally had had with him about the car.

 

[Kelliepat]

Sally's reply to someone on TLV page re: car.

 

[Kelliepat]

Didn’t Sally state in one of the pod casts that the reference to Marion’s comments about been angry about the car may not have happened and that her grandfather may have been confused about a conversation Sally had had with him about the car.

Yes that's right .

 

[alleycat13]

Oh come on, we have asked this question so many times, and have been told absolutely that she went to Wagga Wagga, despite it being clear that she was not listed in a single Wagga Wagga graduation ceremony and despite their being a newspaper article predating the podcast stating that Sally was looking for people who might remember her mother from Armidale teachers college. Now its Balmain???? Which actually makes a lot of sense, and lines up with the article someone posted up thread about Marion being a teacher (not training to be) who had been transferred to Wagga Wagga Dem school.

ETA- and here is, I guess, why Websleuths has the capacity for people to become verified insiders. We have been told things by posters who have said they came from Sally- like that her mother definitely went to Wagga, and that the journalist in Armidale had all sorts of wrong information. I should have asked them about being a verified insider, rather than just believing it.

Um, well I was the one that posted here that Sally had confirmed she went to Wagga and that the Armidale journalist had apparently had wrong info. I’m not a “verified insider” I was just passing on information she had told me via a Facebook comment. Should I not have shared that?