Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #2

[NesssaP]

Ahh... I see... somehow in my head I have mixed both things together into one tip - but now I'm not quite sure how that even made sense in my head haha...

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

I find it interesting that Marion knew the car had sold at all. Sally had indeed sold the car so this was a fact. So who told Marion at the time? Not that many people could have know that piece of information. It's quite specific. How did she know this had happened?

Wow! I hadnt thought of this before but yeah how did she know the car had sold?? Suggests she was in touch with someone from her old life.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

Just been looking at some posts here ... I have to say, that comment about "tell Sally I'm angry" about the car sale money not being put in her account ... "tell Sally", that's very odd, she's asking for that to be passed on to her, even though she's wanting to mysteriously disappear! Then why didn't Marion ring her and ask her to put the money in the account? Or, get the bank security people to pass it on, "could you put the money in the account for your mum", that would have solved the problem .... if it was genuine. That comment really raises alarm bells ... highly suspicious. Also, we haven't heard in the podcast that Sally told her mum that the car had even been sold. Such a puzzle.

Yes exactly!! How did she know about the car???

I think the instruction "tell Sally I'm angry about the car money" is Marion deliberately being mean to stop Sally from continuing to look for her, or at least to give her some space to work out what she was going to do. Mentioning the car shows Sally it's her (who else would know). Giving the message through someone else reinforces that she doesnt want contact. It's also a really hurtful (and cowardly) way to deliver a message to someone who loves you (coupled with an unbelievably petty excuse - I'm angry, it's your fault!) but I think Marion did this to push Sally away and discourage her from trying to make contact.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Found an incoming passenger card from 2003, (couldn't find a 1997 one, drats) but probably similar to the 1997 one Marion filled out. Interesting to see the information to be obtained from it. New theory coming through .... what if the three day visa information on the card was a tip off to alert authorities to come looking or that something was wrong .... just another thought.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Wow! I hadnt thought of this before but yeah how did she know the car had sold?? Suggests she was in touch with someone from her old life.

Exactly Intrigued, how did she know? The last known conversation with Marion was around 30 July/1 August, and Marion is allegedly saying this in October. The clue could be there .... what month was the car sold .... if it was after the last phone call then, yes, how on earth did Marion know .... or someone knew.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Had a look and found my very first mobile phone.
It was released in 1997 and by then quite a few people were already using mobiles.

Ericsson phones from the 1990s | DREAM RETRO | Best cell phone deals, Old cell phones, Wholesale cell phones

Afterthought .... did Marion have a mobile phone, has that been mentioned? They've been around long enough for her to have had one.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Had a look and found my very first mobile phone.
It was released in 1997 and by then quite a few people were already using mobiles.

Ericsson phones from the 1990s | DREAM RETRO | Best cell phone deals, Old cell phones, Wholesale cell phones

Thanks Tootsie, ah, so maybe Marion did have one at the time .... easy for someone else to get a hold of it and impersonate her on phone as opposed to a landline ... wonder if phone was still registered to the Ashmore address, if it was used, or a new address ... that is, if there was a mobile. Cheers

 

[Garyb]

Found an incoming passenger card from 2003, (couldn't find a 1997 one, drats) but probably similar to the 1997 one Marion filled out. Interesting to see the information to be obtained from it. New theory coming through .... what if the three day visa information on the card was a tip off to alert authorities to come looking or that something was wrong .... just another thought.

Now I'm really confused! Why would she not just cross the box for returning Australian resident, why fill in the other details?
Wouldn't the immigration officer raised a red flag as she had an Australian passport.

 

[Garyb]

Now I'm really confused! Why would she not just cross the box for returning Australian resident, why fill in the other details?
Wouldn't the immigration officer raised a red flag as she had an Australian passport.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Now I'm really confused! Why would she not just cross the box for returning Australian resident, why fill in the other details?
Wouldn't the immigration officer raised a red flag as she had an Australian passport.

Yes, good point, so if Marion was being controlled by someone and was hoping someone would intervene maybe that's why the 3 day visa box was ticked, yes indeed, definitely a red flag.

 

[Sparkles5777]

Yes, good point, so if Marion was being controlled by someone and was hoping someone would intervene maybe that's why the 3 day visa box was ticked, yes indeed, definitely a red flag.

If this was the case though she surely would have said something at the bank? She was there everyday for three weeks and the only thing we know of was that she spoke of starting a new life.

 

[Sparkles5777]

Now I'm really confused! Why would she not just cross the box for returning Australian resident, why fill in the other details?
Wouldn't the immigration officer raised a red flag as she had an Australian passport.

I do agree the visa thing is super weird. Why lie? Noone actually reads that card anyway. Perhaps in her mind it was keeping up with the fantasy, or reality, of starting a new life with a new man.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

If this was the case though she surely would have said something at the bank? She was there everyday for three weeks and the only thing we know of was that she spoke of starting a new life.

I agree. The fact that Marion returned to Byron Bay (a familiar location) and was unaccompanied at the bank makes me feel that she wasnt under coercive control. You generally see isolation and proximity (to the controller) when people are being manipulated. If she met a controlling man who convinced her to go overseas why would he allow her to return and diminish his control when her money and possessions could easily be sent to the UK? If there was a reason the controlling man wanted to come to Australia why allow Marion to return somewhere where she has potential support closeby and possibly a better knowledge of the area than he does? The money could be accessed at any CBA and Colonial branch and the storage container sent anywhere.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

Had a look and found my very first mobile phone.
It was released in 1997 and by then quite a few people were already using mobiles.

Ericsson phones from the 1990s | DREAM RETRO | Best cell phone deals, Old cell phones, Wholesale cell phones

Wow! TootsieFootsie those are a blast from the past

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

I think Bryan missed a golden opportunity when he interviewed Garry Sheehan.
He asked 'have you seen or spoken with Marion?'. He also asked 'if I had all the information in the police file would I be able to locate Marion?' Garry answered No and no I dont think so. But we all know Marion legally became Florabella in May 1997 and I think a good journalist should have followed up by asking the same questions about Florabella - especially the second question.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Yep they sure are, I still have that Ericsson, and the next year 1998 I got my first Ericsson flip, was so cute, a purple one, still kept that one and have a look at it every so often.
Not sure when they became mainstream but I think they had become the thing to have a few months before I got mine.
I think I waited because I was happy with what I and my friend used, a small upmarket walkie talkie which was hugely expensive but worked everywhere so at first I didn't see the need for a mobile phone.
My friend bought my first mobile for me and guess where he got it, at Priceline LOL.

Wow! TootsieFootsie those are a blast from the past

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

Yep they sure are, I still have that Ericsson, and the next year 1998 I got my first Ericsson flip, was so cute, a purple one, still kept that one and have a look at it every so often.
Not sure when they became mainstream but I think they had become the thing to have a few months before I got mine.
I think I waited because I was happy with what I and my friend used, a small upmarket walkie talkie which was hugely expensive but worked everywhere so at first I didn't see the need for a mobile phone.
My friend bought my first mobile for me and guess where he got it, at Priceline LOL.

Ha ha Priceline! My first phone was a flip I loved it! I was the same I resisted getting a phone for ages thinking I didnt need one - how times have changed!!

 

[Mel 1303]

They talk about the crimestoppers tip in one of the early episodes. Cant remember which one sorry - maybe #5? Garry Sheehan took a cadaver dog to investigate the location at Armidale. They didnt locate anything unfortunately. Sally would like it looked into again because it was raining on the day of the search and (from memory) the search area wasnt very big. Is the Clark Hunter tip the man who sent the Facebook message saying you'll never see your Mum again? (How awful!) That is in episode 5 - theres not much info on that because I think he deleted his profile - or something that makes it hard to trace

Yes, the search was described in episode 5. It is another description with big contradictions.
It was told to us that a crimestoppers tip from 2002 indicated that a caller had said that a woman called Marion, missing from Northern NSW, was buried in bushland near Armidale. In 2010, Garry found the tip, and followed up on it. This is where the discrepancy comes in, with what happened next- Garry says he went to Armidale, went to the address supplied by the caller- that the name was bogus and the address was right, but the people had no idea what he was talking about. Garry says he spent two days searching for the site, identified the site, organised SES volunteers, took the volunteers and a cadaver dog to the site and searched for two days. Sally says he searched for one day with only the dog and the handler, in the rain. (Episode 5) Both accounts cant be right. Why isn't there fact checking??? Why not just say to both Garry and Sally, "Hey, these stories are a little different- is one of you misinformed? Do we have the wrong information? Lets clear this up so we can publish one version, not two with no comment about which is right". I don't have a problem with there being two different accounts- I just don't understand why both are played in the same episode, with no clarification. Why not investigate and just air the correct version? I doubt either Sally or Garry are being untruthful- just telling their accounts from their own points of view with the information each has. I guess I expected more from a podcast team of media professionals.

In 2013, it was reported in Armidale media that Marion had studied at Armidale Teachers College (different to the account in the podcast, which says Wagga Wagga). The journalist asks for anyone with information to contact him, and he will pass on directly to Sally. Searching for clues to find missing mum
There is no record that I can find in the online Wagga Wagga Teachers College that Marion graduated from there. Under any of her surnames, including Wilson and Willson.
Search (100 total) · Charles Sturt University Regional Archives Digital Gallery
If Marion did go to teachers college in Armidale, it would add a lot of weight to the idea that she may have ended up back in Armidale, or reconnected with someone from college. For regulars here, you know this is something I am following up. I initially thought maybe she studied at both colleges, but I asked the question on the podcast facebook page and it was deleted, which has made me ask some questions as to why.... Trying to get to the Armidale archives, but they are not online. Will visit in person soon.

 

[Mel 1303]

Just been looking at some posts here ... I have to say, that comment about "tell Sally I'm angry" about the car sale money not being put in her account ... "tell Sally", that's very odd, she's asking for that to be passed on to her, even though she's wanting to mysteriously disappear! Then why didn't Marion ring her and ask her to put the money in the account? Or, get the bank security people to pass it on, "could you put the money in the account for your mum", that would have solved the problem .... if it was genuine. That comment really raises alarm bells ... highly suspicious. Also, we haven't heard in the podcast that Sally told her mum that the car had even been sold. Such a puzzle.

The way I understood that was that they asked her for a message that only Marion would know, as part of the confirming that she didn't, at that time, want contact with her family. We don't know exactly when the car was sold, but it must have been after they discovered the money was coming out of the commonwealth account, because Sally tells us her grandfather said to hold onto the money until she returns, in case it is not her withdrawing the money. If the sale happened before they knew that, there would have been no reason to not deposit the cash.
Maybe Marion was just expecting that the money should be there, and was annoyed it wasn't? Maybe she just thought that was something Sally would know, and not others, regardless of whether the car had sold or not? Maybe (most likely, for me) there was someone in her life in Ashmore who knew what she was planning, and keeping an eye on things for her, who remained in touch after her disappearance. Someone at the bank knew how to call her.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

Yes, the search was described in episode 5. It is another description with big contradictions.
It was told to us that a crimestoppers tip from 2002 indicated that a caller had said that a woman called Marion, missing from Northern NSW, was buried in bushland near Armidale. In 2010, Garry found the tip, and followed up on it. This is where the discrepancy comes in, with what happened next- Garry says he went to Armidale, went to the address supplied by the caller- that the name was bogus and the address was right, but the people had no idea what he was talking about. Garry says he spent two days searching for the site, identified the site, organised SES volunteers, took the volunteers and a cadaver dog to the site and searched for two days. Sally says he searched for one day with only the dog and the handler, in the rain. (Episode 5) Both accounts cant be right. Why isn't there fact checking??? Why not just say to both Garry and Sally, "Hey, these stories are a little different- is one of you misinformed? Do we have the wrong information? Lets clear this up so we can publish one version, not two with no comment about which is right". I don't have a problem with there being two different accounts- I just don't understand why both are played in the same episode, with no clarification. Why not investigate and just air the correct version? I doubt either Sally or Garry are being untruthful- just telling their accounts from their own points of view with the information each has. I guess I expected more from a podcast team of media professionals.

In 2013, it was reported in Armidale media that Marion had studied at Armidale Teachers College (different to the account in the podcast, which says Wagga Wagga). The journalist asks for anyone with information to contact him, and he will pass on directly to Sally. Searching for clues to find missing mum
There is no record that I can find in the online Wagga Wagga Teachers College that Marion graduated from there. Under any of her surnames, including Wilson and Willson.
Search (100 total) · Charles Sturt University Regional Archives Digital Gallery
If Marion did go to teachers college in Armidale, it would add a lot of weight to the idea that she may have ended up back in Armidale, or reconnected with someone from college. For regulars here, you know this is something I am following up. I initially thought maybe she studied at both colleges, but I asked the question on the podcast facebook page and it was deleted, which has made me ask some questions as to why.... Trying to get to the Armidale archives, but they are not online. Will visit in person soon.

I find the lack of fact checking and clarity super frustrating. I am often left wondering whether there might be a deliberate strategy to maintain listener ambiguity.

The Armidale college sounds like a great link, good luck with the search!