Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #3

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  • #201
Check this out: www.thatslife.com.au/australian-mother-marion-barter-vanished-without-a-trace
They responded with an apology, admitting neither they nor police ever sighted Marion. The police had only received the information from a phone call (in this source it appears police spoke to 'Marion' directly, not the bank, thus it's not sufficient proof of ID).

The police dont need to visually sight Marion. Seeing her isnt a mandatory requirement for police deem her safe/located.

The source of all these magazine articles are interviews with Sally. The information contained in them are narratives, experiences, memories, and opinions. As true as Sally's experiences are, the information is presented with intent and it has not been checked or verified by the publication.

The statement relating to the salvos apologising is written to suggest they were admitting to an error of process when they could just as easily be clarifying a point from their original letter which Sally had queried and apologise for any confusion created.
 
  • #202
According to NCAT findings, police made the following enquiries:

2007 - Commonwealth Bank
2007 - St George Bank
2007 - National Australia Bank
2008 - QLD credit union
2008 - Teacher’s credit union
2011 - Westpac

This is consistent with my earlier posts with sources where it appears Marion’s banks were not contacted in 1997, but 10 years after.

2007 is the same year they upgraded Marion from ‘occurrence’ to officially missing and put her on state register. The outcome of these enquiries does not seem to be consistent with Marion being ‘located’.

Hence the investigation in 2007 came to different conclusions than what Marion’s family was advised in 1997.

Could you please provide some kind of source to back up why you believe it’s been established that police satisfactorily contacted banks and located Marion in 1997?

Happy to accept your argument, but this thread requires sources to back up what we claim as fact, otherwise you need to make it clear it’s just a theory or opinion.
 
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  • #203
The police dont need to visually sight Marion. Seeing her isnt a mandatory requirement for police deem her safe/located.

Forgive me for being confused:

“If a person is reported missing to police, enquires into their whereabouts will be made by police. Police or a person in authority have to sight the person, even if they have returned home, after they have been reported missing to ensure that they are safe and well."

From NSW Missing Persons Register
 
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  • #204
According to NCAT findings, police made the following enquiries:

2007 - Commonwealth Bank
2007 - St George Bank
2007 - National Australia Bank
2008 - QLD credit union
2008 - Teacher’s credit union
2011 - Westpac

This is consistent with my earlier posts with sources where it appears Marion’s banks were not contacted in 1997, but 10 years after.

2007 is the same year they upgraded Marion from ‘occurrence’ to officially missing and put her on state register. The outcome of these enquiries does not seem to be consistent with Marion being ‘located’.

Hence the investigation in 2007 came to different conclusions than what Marion’s family was advised in 1997.

Could you please provide some kind of source to back up why you believe it’s been established that police satisfactorily contacted banks and located Marion in 1997?

Happy to accept your argument, but this thread requires sources to back up what we claim as fact, otherwise you need to make it clear it’s just a theory or opinion.

The Salvos letter refers to the police information gathered. This is a verified source. If nothing was done by police until 2007 where did the information from Colonial come from and under whose authority was it obtained??

Are you honestly suggesting that police ignored Sally's initial report in 1997, someone impersonated Marion to get her funds (at two separate institutions) and also impersonated police to call Sally and that police fabricated information given to the salvos (even though they would have had no knowledge of the phone) and then continued to ignore the missing person report until 2007??

In terms of the NCAT document the COPS and Garry's memo cover the police events in the case. The NCAT document does indicate however that much of the information being collected by police is in excess of 20 years old. Sally's part also mentions this. Your argument that the police ignored the case until 2007 can not be right because a substantial amount of the police file pre-dates this. It suggests the much of the police work was done upfront and added to over time - or do you interpret those submissions differently??
 
  • #205
According to NCAT findings, police made the following enquiries:

2007 - Commonwealth Bank
2007 - St George Bank
2007 - National Australia Bank
2008 - QLD credit union
2008 - Teacher’s credit union
2011 - Westpac


This is consistent with my earlier posts with sources where it appears Marion’s banks were not contacted in 1997, but 10 years after.

2007 is the same year they upgraded Marion from ‘occurrence’ to officially missing and put her on state register. The outcome of these enquiries does not seem to be consistent with Marion being ‘located’.

Hence the investigation in 2007 came to different conclusions than what Marion’s family was advised in 1997.

Could you please provide some kind of source to back up why you believe it’s been established that police satisfactorily contacted banks and located Marion in 1997?

Happy to accept your argument, but this thread requires sources to back up what we claim as fact, otherwise you need to make it clear it’s just a theory or opinion.
Re BBM. Were they the only banks with which police made inquiries? If so, why only those, out of dozens that would have been available to Marion? Or were those not the only banks with whom inquiries were made, but the few which returned positive responses?

I did read the NCAT thing, and from memory I wasn't sure how to understand the bank references.
 
  • #206
Forgive me for being confused:

“If a person is reported missing to police, enquires into their whereabouts will be made by police. Police or a person in authority have to sight the person, even if they have returned home, after they have been reported missing to ensure that they are safe and well."

From NSW Missing Persons Register

That's interesting. Has that always been the case I wonder?
 
  • #207
Re BBM. Were they the only banks with which police made inquiries? If so, why only those, out of dozens that would have been available to Marion? Or were those not the only banks with whom inquiries were made, but the few which returned positive responses?

I did read the NCAT thing, and from memory I wasn't sure how to understand the bank references.

All the bank documents (with the exception of an email from teachers credit union) were marked for release in the NCAT decision. So unless theres an appeal those docs will be made available to Sally. Like you said there may not be anything in them other than confirmation they have no records of anyone of that name. Hopefully they do though!!
 
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  • #208
Forgive me for being confused:

“If a person is reported missing to police, enquires into their whereabouts will be made by police. Police or a person in authority have to sight the person, even if they have returned home, after they have been reported missing to ensure that they are safe and well."

From NSW Missing Persons Register

Exactly. Police OR a person in authority have to sight her. In Marions case, the bank security officer (who as previous mentioned, had dealt with her in the sale of her house and would have known how she was) was deemed a person of authority.
 
  • #209
Exactly. Police OR a person in authority have to sight her. In Marions case, the bank security officer (who as previous mentioned, had dealt with her in the sale of her house and would have known how she was) was deemed a person of authority.
But AFAIK it hasn't been said that the bank security officer sighted her after her disappearance. That he met her before her trip in regard to the house sale shouldn't count.
 
  • #210
To be honest, I really don’t want to continue this line of inquiry. I don’t feel it’s important to argue over what police did or didn’t do. It’s not my intention nor advancing Marion’s case. Like I said, I believe police should be relied upon, they do the best they can, and this case is complex.

This began because I vocalised my frustration at all the evidence we’ve lost because Marion was initially dismissed as a willing runaway. Now that case is being reviewed as potentially more sinister, evidence is long gone. This still holds true and I’ve provided sources along the way.

It was not a contentious statement, yet I was corrected by a couple of people who believe my frustration was unwarranted (perhaps even insulting?) because it’s been 'established' that police did everything they were supposed to do in the beginning, resulting in police being confident Marion had been found.

I’d argue that despite what police did or did not do in the early stages, I’m still allowed to feel frustrated at the lost evidence.

Also, many on this thread don’t agree it’s been ‘estabished’ Marion was satisfactorily found. I feel the need to exercise caution, not because this particular issue is vital, but because the rules of the page require sources when things are claimed as ‘established’ and fact. Still, not a single link has been provided. It’s unfair to get agitated at people for believing the information that is in MSM and podcast while providing no sources to the contrary.

So, I repeat my original position: I am frustrated at all the evidence we’ve lost because Marion was initially dismissed as a willing runaway. Now that case is being reviewed as potentially more sinister, evidence is long gone. It sucks. I'm out.
 
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  • #211
Miss Emmapeel said .... Which takes me back to dangerous attitudes regarding missing women. The examples are endless in podcast land.

I don’t know where your from but in New Zealand which is similar to Australia women and Children get the highest priority from the police. A lot of our high profile cases involve missing prostitututes and not treated any differently, in fact treated with more priority as it can mean someone is targeting the vulnerable.
 
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  • #212
I agree with everything you said, Peralta.
 
  • #213
All the bank documents (with the exception of an email from teachers credit union) were marked for release in the NCAT decision. So unless theres an appeal those docs will be made available to Sally. Like you said there may not be anything in them other than confirmation they have no records of anyone of that name. Hopefully they do though!!
I just found it strange that so few banks were mentioned. However, now that AFP Homicide Review have taken the case, anything that was missed should show up in ATO records . . . unless Marion didn't give new banks her tax file number and also didn't complete any further tax returns.
 
  • #214
I am personally taking the ID of Marion with a grain of salt, not sure it even happened.

They contacted her after she closed her accounts. She would have had to of updated her contact details when she returned from the UK for them to do this, if I was fraudulently removing money from an account that was not mine, I wouldn’t give the bank my actual contact details for them to be able to track me down some months later. So if it did happen I would assume it to be Marion not someone else taking the money from the account. also if it wasn’t Marion we have to add a female into the mix, so now we have a male and a female involved in this highly organised crime.

The message to Sally about the car seems iffy, Sally thinks this was a mistake/ confusion by her Granada as well, there was only 1 contact made with Marion ( if it happened) and the police never passed that message on to Sally in 1997 when they called to say her mother had been contacted.
 
  • #215
I don’t know where you're from but in New Zealand which is similar to Australia women and Children get the highest priority from the police. A lot of our high profile cases involve missing prostitututes and not treated any differently, in fact treated with more priority as it can mean someone is targeting the vulnerable.

That's wonderful to hear, KiwiNZ. I'm from the US. I've followed podcasts on missing indigenous women in Canada, missing Latina women on the Texas border. Missing women by droves who were victims of serial killers. In Australia there's the TEACHER'S PET podcast. I can go on and on-- I don't have statistics. It's just my opinion that women go missing at a higher rate than men (not runaways-- but missing), and in the podcasts I listen to, the cases go cold. Often from being neglected in the early stages when clues are fresh.
 
  • #216
To be honest, I really don’t want to continue this line of inquiry. I don’t feel it’s important to argue over what police did or didn’t do. It’s not my intention nor advancing Marion’s case. Like I said, I believe police should be relied upon, they do the best they can, and this case is complex.

This began because I vocalised my frustration at all the evidence we’ve lost because Marion was initially dismissed as a willing runaway. Now that case is being reviewed as potentially more sinister, evidence is long gone. This still holds true and I’ve provided sources along the way.

It was not a contentious statement, yet I was corrected by a couple of people who believe my frustration was unwarranted (perhaps even insulting?) because it’s been 'established' that police did everything they were supposed to do in the beginning, resulting in police being confident Marion had been found.

I’d argue that despite what police did or did not do in the early stages, I’m still allowed to feel frustrated at the lost evidence.

Also, many on this thread don’t agree it’s been ‘estabished’ Marion was satisfactorily found. I feel the need to exercise caution, not because this particular issue is vital, but because the rules of the page require sources when things are claimed as ‘established’ and fact. Still, not a single link has been provided. It’s unfair to get agitated at people for believing the information that is in MSM and podcast while providing no sources to the contrary.

So, I repeat my original position: I am frustrated at all the evidence we’ve lost because Marion was initially dismissed as a willing runaway. Now that case is being reviewed as potentially more sinister, evidence is long gone. It sucks. I'm out.
Thank you, Peralta, for speaking with such common sense.
 
  • #217
Would it be such a breech of Marions precious privacy if the police let Sally (and her supporters) know for certain that it was Marion who returned to Australia 2.8.97. They have CCT footage. So much time and effort is being spent comparing handwriting and debating identity protocols.
 
  • #218
I'm not on FB. If any great news or leads happen there, will someone here post them? Thank you in advance. Also, will someone explain what the NCAT is?
 
  • #219
All the bank documents (with the exception of an email from teachers credit union) were marked for release in the NCAT decision. So unless theres an appeal those docs will be made available to Sally. Like you said there may not be anything in them other than confirmation they have no records of anyone of that name. Hopefully they do though!!
Any reason the email from teachers credit union would be singled out for exclusion?
 
  • #220
I'm not on FB. If any great news or leads happen there, will someone here post them? Thank you in advance. Also, will someone explain what the NCAT is?

NSW Civil and Administrative Tribunal

About NCAT
The NSW Civil and Administrative Tribunal (NCAT) is the one-stop-shop for specialist tribunal services in NSW. NCAT was established on 1 January 2014 by the Civil and Administrative Tribunal Act 2013.

What is NCAT?
NCAT deals with a broad and diverse range of matters, from tenancy issues and building works, to decisions on guardianship and administrative review of government decisions.


Hope the above helps, its like a court but less formal but the decision made is binding but can also be challenged within in so many days of the decision been published. They used this service to try and get further information released from the police file.

In New Zealand you can not have a lawyer represent you in tribunal cases you must represent yourself, Aus may be a bit different because I am sure Sally had a 7 news lawyer with her.
 
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