Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #3

[KiwiNZ]

has anyone listened to the podcast "Who the hell is Hamish ?" Australian con man. Its a stretch to think he could be linked but the pod cast references a Cathay Pacific pilot based out of Hong Kong as one of his victims. I cant find a date around this incident with the pilot but they say Hamish started his cons from the mid to late 90's.

as I say probably a stretch to think they are related but thought I would share in case anyone wants to listen to the podcast.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

I'm curious about those of you here who believe Marion vanished out of free will and deserves her privacy. If you believe that, why are you here? For you, it would seem there's no mystery, no sleuthing to be done.

 

[bje111]

I'm curious about those of you here who believe Marion vanished out of free will and deserves her privacy. If you believe that, why are you here? For you, it would seem there's no mystery, no sleuthing to be done.

gosh - that's actually a very good point!

 

[Sparkles5777]

I'm curious about those of you here who believe Marion vanished out of free will and deserves her privacy. If you believe that, why are you here? For you, it would seem there's no mystery, no sleuthing to be done.

For me personally it's the why. If she did choose to start a new life afresh, why not tell people she wanted a new life? It's possible to just limit contact with your family. See them once a year or whatever. But cutting them off entirely? Rather cruel isn't it? Never speaking to them again. Having them think you're dead or who knows what? Why all the secrecy with the guy at the petrol station and with changing her name and telling no one and coming back into the country without telling anyone and all the other things she did prior to her leaving that show she wasn't being honest with her family. Whyyyyyy? A life crisis? Something at TSS? A cult? A brain snap? The why is what gets me with this case.

And also, just because I believe she went missing of her own choice doesn't mean something hasn't happened to her since then. She might have chosen to start a new life with a new husband, who killed her two years latter. Or any of a number of other possible scenarios in which she chose to leave and something has happened since then.

That's what brings me here. Trying to understand why people do the things they do.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

Hey Itsapuzzple! You wrote this back in June -- "Hi Mel 1303, if I could just contribute my thoughts to your Question 4 .... that is the one that to me has imposter written all over it! According to Sally there was no rush to sell the car, just whenever, and when sold to deposit the money in account ... Sally never told her mum she sold the car, so it can only be something that was known by the mystery man .... he knew that mentioning Sally and the car was about as good a security pass as you could get .... hey, just my opinion...... now also the bank said they had contacted Marion by phone to confirm it was her! Really! She didnt have a house at that point, let alone a phone!! What phone number did they ring .... can't have been the Merinda Court Southport address because she didn't live there anymore .... hmmm .... just my thoughts at this point ...... really thinking there's something rotten here in the bank ....."

I agree with your points. When I heard the Marion-anger-car story, my first thought was that it was as you describe, a "security pass." So easy for Marion to have mentioned to someone (especially a man inquiring about her assets) that Sally would be selling a car and giving her the money. Add to that, that there is no record of WHO reported this conversation or where Jack hear it, it's just one of the many baffling red herrings of this case.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

For some levity:

Peralta: We don’t know if it is an apple or a banana.

Websleuths: How many times do we have to go through this? It’s been established it’s a banana.

Peralta: Wait. No. Says who? No one involved in the investigation (police, witnesses, media) has ever confirmed if it’s an apple or a banana.

Websleuths: Yes it has. Someone said, that someone else told them, that someone else called the fruit shop, and the fruit shop apparently said it is a banana.

Peralta: Very true. It’s speculation isn’t it, not a fact? The fruit shop has never publicly come forward to directly confirm it is a banana OR that they ever told anyone that it is a banana. The police have never confirmed the conversation between fruit shop and the other person actually happened!

Websleuths: But the police probably have more info than they tell us.

Peralta: Totally agree. But WE still don’t know if it is an apple or a banana or that the conversation was real. We can’t claim things are true based on files we have not seen that contradict all available sources of information, including police statements.

Websleuths: I have my own reasons for thinking it’s a banana. I’m allowed to my opinion.

Peralta: So true, totally agree! But an opinion based on speculation does not make a fact. No one in the investigation (police, witnesses, media) has established if it is an apple or a banana which was the initial statement in question. In fact, the official police position is that they know it was a seed, and make no reference to if it is an apple or a banana, much less that it is definitely a banana. The speculation on what someone potentially said to another person 23 years ago might be true or untrue. It has never been substantiated. It has never been established if it’s an apple or a banana.

Websleuths: Your opinion that no one has proved if it’s an apple or a banana cannot be proved or disproved right now. My opinion that it is a banana also cannot be proved or disproved.

Peralta: What?! Lol. Very funny This is the best thing anyone has ever said.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Hahahaha, thanks for the laughs Peralta

All I know is that as time goes on I feel like I'm more and more confused as to what really happened to Marion.
We don't seem to know much for certain.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

From being on this board a while and following other cases, I get the impression that tragedy does not happen as an isolated incident. There often seems to be prior incidents and clues.

Apologies if this has already been discussed... Here is a CBA Manager who went to jail for stealing a client’s money from the Tweed Heads branch. He took advantage of a defenceless old lady’s trust and has shown no remorse about it.

He was a former Assistant Manager of the CBA Byron Bay branch (Marion’s bank) sometime prior to 2001.

Not at all saying this man had anything to do with Marion, but rather that a man with such callousness and without remorse DID work at Marion’s bank around the same time. It is an example that bank fraud is not implausible.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

Hey Itsapuzzple! You wrote this back in June -- "Hi Mel 1303, if I could just contribute my thoughts to your Question 4 .... that is the one that to me has imposter written all over it! According to Sally there was no rush to sell the car, just whenever, and when sold to deposit the money in account ... Sally never told her mum she sold the car, so it can only be something that was known by the mystery man .... he knew that mentioning Sally and the car was about as good a security pass as you could get .... hey, just my opinion...... now also the bank said they had contacted Marion by phone to confirm it was her! Really! She didnt have a house at that point, let alone a phone!! What phone number did they ring .... can't have been the Merinda Court Southport address because she didn't live there anymore .... hmmm .... just my thoughts at this point ...... really thinking there's something rotten here in the bank ....."

I agree with your points. When I heard the Marion-anger-car story, my first thought was that it was as you describe, a "security pass." So easy for Marion to have mentioned to someone (especially a man inquiring about her assets) that Sally would be selling a car and giving her the money. Add to that, that there is no record of WHO reported this conversation or where Jack hear it, it's just one of the many baffling red herrings of this case.

In episode 4 Alison talks to Marion's sister about the Salvos investigation. Jack had a phone call with the Salvos (Emma) who then follow up with the letter. Marion's sister (sorry I cant remember her name) mentions her father being told the message about the car money during that phone call.

 

[KiwiNZ]

with the assumption that the police did go to the bank and request they check the authenticity of the person removing the funds from Marion's bank account. I would think they would take this matter and process to ID the person seriously, as the bank would not to put themselves in a position of not following full process (especially if the request came from the police) if the real Marion did show up. The bank would not know if the person fraudulently accessing the account had in fact done away with the account holder and that she wasn't going to wonder where her money went.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

I'm curious about those of you here who believe Marion vanished out of free will and deserves her privacy. If you believe that, why are you here? For you, it would seem there's no mystery, no sleuthing to be done.

Because I want to see Sally get a resolution and end her uncertainty.

I believe she orchestrated her disappearence of her own free will but that was 23 years ago. I want to know if she's still alive (and if she wants to be reunited). Ideally I want to know everything but if she is located and doesnt want anything shared that's needs to be ok.
Just because I dont personally believe the same as other contributors on certain aspects doesnt mean I'm not interested in what they have to say and why. I'm fascinated by the research people do and what they come up with. Something could always come up that changes my perspective.

 

[bje111]

For some levity:

Peralta: We don’t know if it is an apple or a banana.

Websleuths: How many times do we have to go through this? It’s been established it’s a banana.

Peralta: Wait. No. Says who? No one involved in the investigation (police, witnesses, media) has ever confirmed if it’s an apple or a banana.

Websleuths: Yes it has. Someone said, that someone else told them, that someone else called the fruit shop, and the fruit shop apparently said it is a banana.

Peralta: Very true. It’s speculation isn’t it, not a fact? The fruit shop has never publicly come forward to directly confirm it is a banana OR that they ever told anyone that it is a banana. The police have never confirmed the conversation between fruit shop and the other person actually happened!

Websleuths: But the police probably have more info than they tell us.

Peralta: Totally agree. But WE still don’t know if it is an apple or a banana or that the conversation was real. We can’t claim things are true based on files we have not seen that contradict all available sources of information, including police statements.

Websleuths: I have my own reasons for thinking it’s a banana. I’m allowed to my opinion.

Peralta: So true, totally agree! But an opinion based on speculation does not make a fact. No one in the investigation (police, witnesses, media) has established if it is an apple or a banana which was the initial statement in question. In fact, the official police position is that they know it was a seed, and make no reference to if it is an apple or a banana, much less that it is definitely a banana. The speculation on what someone potentially said to another person 23 years ago might be true or untrue. It has never been substantiated. It has never been established if it’s an apple or a banana.

Websleuths: Your opinion that no one has proved if it’s an apple or a banana cannot be proved or disproved right now. My opinion that it is a banana also cannot be proved or disproved.

Peralta: What?! Lol. Very funny This is the best thing anyone has ever said.

Hahahaha you came along at just the right time! Keep going x

 

[bje111]

Hey Itsapuzzple! You wrote this back in June -- "Hi Mel 1303, if I could just contribute my thoughts to your Question 4 .... that is the one that to me has imposter written all over it! According to Sally there was no rush to sell the car, just whenever, and when sold to deposit the money in account ... Sally never told her mum she sold the car, so it can only be something that was known by the mystery man .... he knew that mentioning Sally and the car was about as good a security pass as you could get .... hey, just my opinion...... now also the bank said they had contacted Marion by phone to confirm it was her! Really! She didnt have a house at that point, let alone a phone!! What phone number did they ring .... can't have been the Merinda Court Southport address because she didn't live there anymore .... hmmm .... just my thoughts at this point ...... really thinking there's something rotten here in the bank ....."

I agree with your points. When I heard the Marion-anger-car story, my first thought was that it was as you describe, a "security pass." So easy for Marion to have mentioned to someone (especially a man inquiring about her assets) that Sally would be selling a car and giving her the money. Add to that, that there is no record of WHO reported this conversation or where Jack hear it, it's just one of the many baffling red herrings of this case.

Maybe Jack, Sally's dad, was only speculating about why Marion had "disappeared" and had said to Sally "perhaps she's annoyed about the car funds"... and it's been remembered by Sally slightly differently? (no disrespect to Sally here whatsoever)

 

[Deleted member 249471]

You know what would be awesome? If the podcast did a conversations episode on mythbusting. To talk us through the most commonly repeated erroneous statements, or biggest confusions, from listeners, fb posts and sleuths. Also, to repeat what the NSW Police / AFP have said and officially state on Marion’s case.

In fact, I think that would be a fantastic exercise here - for someone to go through and post what the NSW Police / AFP have said in their own words. Not incorporating anything Sally, Sally’s family, podcast or anyone else has said. Just police, which is source #1.

 

[Seriallyaddicted]

Hypothetical.
Let’s say Marion was located and she doesn’t want anything to do with Sally as she has her new life now.
How do you think this would all end with the podcast and channel 7’s investigations?
Do you think given how much channel 7 has invested into this, do you think they would be happy to just walk away from it and give Marion her privacy?
Do you think they would be totally discrete and not reveal anything about her location?

 

[sunnynz]

Hypothetical.
Let’s say Marion was located and she doesn’t want anything to do with Sally as she has her new life now.
How do you think this would all end with the podcast and channel 7’s investigations?
Do you think given how much channel 7 has invested into this, do you think they would be happy to just walk away from it and give Marion her privacy?
Do you think they would be totally discrete and not reveal anything about her location?

I personally think they would wrap it up. The backlash if they didn’t would be huge. They could easily frame it up as them successfully solving a mystery and milk it for the pr that would entail.

 

[sunnynz]

For me personally it's the why. If she did choose to start a new life afresh, why not tell people she wanted a new life? It's possible to just limit contact with your family. See them once a year or whatever. But cutting them off entirely? Rather cruel isn't it? Never speaking to them again. Having them think you're dead or who knows what? Why all the secrecy with the guy at the petrol station and with changing her name and telling no one and coming back into the country without telling anyone and all the other things she did prior to her leaving that show she wasn't being honest with her family. Whyyyyyy? A life crisis? Something at TSS? A cult? A brain snap? The why is what gets me with this case.

And also, just because I believe she went missing of her own choice doesn't mean something hasn't happened to her since then. She might have chosen to start a new life with a new husband, who killed her two years latter. Or any of a number of other possible scenarios in which she chose to leave and something has happened since then.

That's what brings me here. Trying to understand why people do the things they do.

this is very much my perspective too. Especially the possibility that she left of her own volition but that something terrible happened to her not long after that.

 

[Seriallyaddicted]

For me personally it's the why. If she did choose to start a new life afresh, why not tell people she wanted a new life? It's possible to just limit contact with your family. See them once a year or whatever. But cutting them off entirely? Rather cruel isn't it? Never speaking to them again. Having them think you're dead or who knows what? Why all the secrecy with the guy at the petrol station and with changing her name and telling no one and coming back into the country without telling anyone and all the other things she did prior to her leaving that show she wasn't being honest with her family. Whyyyyyy? A life crisis? Something at TSS? A cult? A brain snap? The why is what gets me with this case.

And also, just because I believe she went missing of her own choice doesn't mean something hasn't happened to her since then. She might have chosen to start a new life with a new husband, who killed her two years latter. Or any of a number of other possible scenarios in which she chose to leave and something has happened since then.

That's what brings me here. Trying to understand why people do the things they do.

Yes and why put $20k in an account in England and then never touch it? Why would she never touch her super?

 

[Seriallyaddicted]

this is very much my perspective too. Especially the possibility that she left of her own volition but that something terrible happened to her not long after that.

I agree with this. Marion was in an extremely vulnerable situation with no one knowing where she was. She had cash and could easily have been killed.
The $20k she put in the England back account is the biggest reason I think she isn’t alive and I think she had planned to go back to Europe or she would have withdrew it prior to leaving Europe.

 

[Seriallyaddicted]

I personally think they would wrap it up. The backlash if they didn’t would be huge. They could easily frame it up as them successfully solving a mystery and milk it for the pr that would entail.

Imagine how many people would continue to look for Marion and want to know where she is?!
It would be a hard thing for channel 7 and Sally’s family to keep under wraps don’t you think?