Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #4

[TootsieFootsie]

Hi Vivienbee. What I wrote wasn't in response to what you said or what anyone else said really.

I actually haven't read what you wrote yet, been in and out of it with a horrible flu. I just woke up, at 1am and suddenly thought, how would I feel if I was her.

Please keep posting. If I had thought anyone thought I was having a go at them I probably wouldn't have posted it.

So please, lets all keep asking questions and trying to find out more.

So post away, Vivianbee, your posts are a breath of fresh air, and what is needed here.

I completely take your point, and I'm not saying that she does know more than she has said at all. I think it was irresponsible to release her name to the public if she indeed being harassed and hounded.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Vivienbee, though I put a like on your post, I hadn't actually read it yet.
I read your earlier ones and was inspired so I just automatically liked your next posts.. Meaning to read them when I felt a bit better.

If I had read it I would have waited til another time to post my thoughts on what it must feel like to be someone else.

 

[vivienbee]

Hi Vivienbee. What I wrote wasn't in response to what you said or what anyone else said really.

I actually haven't read what you wrote yet, been in and out of it with a horrible flu. I just woke up, at 1am and suddenly thought, how would I feel if I was her.

Please keep posting. If I had thought anyone thought I was having a go at them I probably wouldn't have posted it.

So please, lets all keep asking questions and trying to find out more.

So post away, Vivianbee, your posts are a breath of fresh air, and what is needed here.

Thank you for your sweet reply.

I will continue posting, I just don't want to offend anyone and I certainly don't want to drag someone through something if they are already getting a bunch of hassle.

It will be really interesting to find out what, if anything, Lesley can reveal at the inquest. She may have information that she doesn't even realise is important if she spent a large amount of time with Marion before her departure.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Re transcripts. I've never seen any of The Lady Vanishes.

I just did a search of various search engines and came up with nothing.
So I am presuming that none were made.
That must be frustrating for deaf people who it seems are excluded from listening to the podcasts. I don't know how many people who would make use of a transcript.
I know that I, even though my hearing is fine, would on the whole prefer reading the transcript to watching the video or listening to the podcast.
When you read, you have it right there on the page and you can refer back to it, and read it again if you don't quite understand it.
It's much easier than just listening to the podcast again.
Also with the transcript, you could make notes of the bits you are interested in.

I think I read, years ago now of some programme that automatically transcribes the spoken word. I can't remember the name.
Was it that Dragon Naturally Speaking ?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

New Episode The Lady Vanishes

20. The Inquest: Part 1

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Sometimes even the smallest thing can turn out to be very important.

Keeping my fingers crossed that there might turn out to be a new lead in what happened to Marion.

It will be really interesting to find out what, if anything, Lesley can reveal at the inquest. She may have information that she doesn't even realise is important if she spent a large amount of time with Marion before her departure.

 

[vivienbee]

So are we to assume, from the most recent podcast episode, that it is possible that the dentist didn't see Marion in person to sign the name change documents?
He says that it's possible that the documents were dropped off at the surgery, and that he's "fairly sure" he would have done it in person because that was his normal way of doing things, but as with most boxticking procedures I'm not sure how much we can assume this was the case.
I'm not sure what possibilities it could open up if he didn't see her in person for the name change, but I feel like it could be important.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

He didn't recall seeing her but did remember something about an unusual name.
I would have thought you would need to see the person but if she was a patient for awhile he may have felt fine about signing it.
I don't think he now remembers her even as a patient.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Coronial inquest into death of Marion Barter begins, with daughter Sally Leydon to give evidence.


No Cookies | The Courier Mail

Behind a Paywall. Sally Leydon to give evidence today.

Sally hopes the $250,000 reward will encourage someone to come forward.
She says her mother did not do this by herself, 100%.

She says how did she come up with the Remakel name.

She says there is something not right and that someone knows what's going on.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Re the Remakel passport. We know it left Australia, then came back again.
We don't know if it ended up leaving Australia again. Unless I'm forgetting something.

 

[sunnybree]

Re the Remakel passport. We know it left Australia, then came back again.
We don't know if it ended up leaving Australia again. Unless I'm forgetting something.

From memory, I think it’s been confirmed the passport for Florabella never left the country again, and Marion did not go back to deed poll to change her name again, nor did she apply for a passport again in the name of Florabella or Marion. I think I’ve remembered that right?

I also recall that between a certain time frame covering Marion’s disappearance no one else with a passport in the surname of Remakel entered or left Australia apart from Florabella/Marion.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

That was my recollection too.

Why go to the all the trouble of changing names etc , possibly getting married and talk about living overseas if you're just going to stay here and go offgrid.

Someone got her money and probably her antiques and she was of no further use then.

From memory, I think it’s been confirmed the passport for Florabella never left the country again, and Marion did not go back to deed poll to change her name again, nor did she apply for a passport again in the name of Florabella or Marion. I think I’ve remembered that right

 

[Deleted member 249471]

So true! The dentist can't say for sure that he saw Marion in person when he signed as a witness, but he does know:

• he'd treated her before as Marion Barter
• she'd been to that health clinic before as it was a service available to QLD teachers
• he has a vague recollection of the event and thought the name was unusual
• he believes he asked for proof of the name change (such as executed deed poll), because he wouldn't have signed it otherwise.

Just to be clear, the dentist witnessed her passport application on the 16 May, not her name change.

That was on 13 May 1997 (from inquest):
Marion executed a deed poll with the Public Trustee in Brisbane and changed her name from Marion Barter to Florabella Natalia Marion Remakel. Her application contains a photograph of Marion and a signature under her new name. There is no evidence any other person was aware of this name change.

No witnesses have been revealed for the name change application. It's never even been mentioned if witnesses were required at the time, but you generally need two. Perhaps LE are keeping info on the deed poll to themselves? Or there might truly be no more info available.

Personally, I see nothing unusual about the dentist visit. It was a passport application and we know she had already changed her name, so all he did was confirm she was who she said she was. I'm more concerned with who might've witnessed her name change and the reasons she gave for doing it.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

So bummed the Optometrist couldn't elaborate in any way.

To recap, Marion's medicare card was used 13 August 1997 at an optometrist in Grafton Shoppingworld.
The optometrist, Dean M Evans, believes he would have written extensive consultation notes on the back of Marion's form with her name, birth date and contact details. The form would have remained at the practice until archived. But the business was sold about 10 years ago and he has no idea what happened to the records.

Additionally, records in Australia are allowed to be destroyed after 7 years and are often done so, especially if the customer has never returned or used their file again.

Gah, so frustrating

 

[vivienbee]

So true! The dentist can't say for sure that he saw Marion in person when he signed as a witness, but he does know:

• he'd treated her before as Marion Barter
• she'd been to that health clinic before as it was a service available to QLD teachers
• he has a vague recollection of the event and thought the name was unusual
• he believes he asked for proof of the name change (such as executed deed poll), because he wouldn't have signed it otherwise.

Just to be clear, the dentist witnessed her passport application on the 16 May, not her name change.

That was on 13 May 1997 (from inquest):
Marion executed a deed poll with the Public Trustee in Brisbane and changed her name from Marion Barter to Florabella Natalia Marion Remakel. Her application contains a photograph of Marion and a signature under her new name. There is no evidence any other person was aware of this name change.

No witnesses have been revealed for the name change application. It's never even been mentioned if witnesses were required at the time, but you generally need two. Perhaps LE are keeping info on the deed poll to themselves? Or there might truly be no more info available.

Personally, I see nothing unusual about the dentist visit. It was a passport application and we know she had already changed her name, so all he did was confirm she was who she said she was. I'm more concerned with who might've witnessed her name change and the reasons she gave for doing it.

Ahh, thank you for clarifying! That makes a lot more sense, and probably does make it much less significant.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

I found the bank info very interesting!

David Martin, bank manager of Colonial Ashmore in 1997:

• Colonial (now CBA) had branches in Ashmore, Byron Bay and Burleigh Heads
• at the time, withdrawing amounts over $10,000 was considered suspicious and would've been reported to AUSTRAC
• when Marion’s house was sold, it was put into a high performing earning account with restriction of only being allowed to withdraw $5000 a day (aha!)
• he does not recall police or Salvos ever getting in contact with him, ever
• Ashmore never had a securities officer.

Graeme Smith, investigations manager at CBA since 1994:

• Police never contacted him, he was the one that reached out after hearing about the podcast
  
• staff are trained about customers withdrawing large amounts in small periods of time
• particularly if they went to the same teller time and time again, that would trigger a alert
• but it wouldn’t be so noticeable if the person visited multiple branches
• withdrawing a large amount on one day, such as $80,000 would be a concern but not if the purpose was to buy a house, for example, a large withdrawal wouldn't be flagged to buy a house.

Other useful info:

• At the time, $800 per day was the limit for at ATM or EFTPOS.
• Marion had a Mastercard but it wasn't used since 1994 as she reported it stolen with her wallet.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

At last a few questions have been answered!

- The reason for the $5000 withdrawals was a limit on Marion's account.

- Marion's wallet went missing in 1994 - that's the year she moved to Southport, bought her house, started at TSS, and the Monsieur Remakel ad appeared. Not sure if there's a link, but we did regularly ask when her wallet was stolen.

- Transferring a large amount of money overseas would trigger alarm bells for money laundering. So, one of the few ways $80,000 could be withdrawn in one day at Ashmore without red flags, was to buy a house.

If it were me, I'd check land title records for beachfront properties on Main Beach bought in 1997. Marion mentioned buying there as a reason for selling her house. Are there any links to the Remakel at Trenwest?

 

[Deleted member 249471]

I want to know the name of the manager of Byron Bay branch in 1997. The withdrawals should have been flagged. The bank manager of Colonial Ashmore spoke, so where's the manager of Byron Bay?

 

[Brissie Sleuth]

So bummed the Optometrist couldn't elaborate in any way.

To recap, Marion's medicare card was used 13 August 1997 at an optometrist in Grafton Shoppingworld.
The optometrist, Dean M Evans, believes he would have written extensive consultation notes on the back of Marion's form with her name, birth date and contact details. The form would have remained at the practice until archived. But the business was sold about 10 years ago and he has no idea what happened to the records.

Additionally, records in Australia are allowed to be destroyed after 7 years and are often done so, especially if the customer has never returned or used their file again.

Gah, so frustrating

yes absolutely no help at all!

 

[Loxoli]

At last a few questions have been answered!

I’m so glad to see some answers! This gives us a little more to work with. In regards to the money questions, now we just need to know was it Marion who withdrew it all and where did it go?