Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #4

[Deleted member 249471]

I still believe the smartest thing Marion ever did was only transfer a small portion of her money to the UK Barclay account. Clever woman. Who knows what would've happened if she transferred all of it? She even kept two separate accounts in Australia. THAT is proof she wasn't planning to disappear.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Inquest Day Three
Cop can't recall 'urgency', by Luke Costin, AAP

Witness: Graham Child - former senior constable, Byron Bay Police 1997

Mr Childs said he has no independent recollection of taking the report from Sally, but assumes from his notes that she only wanted the matter noted.

"Without trying to sound dismissive, it would appear the information I was given didn't create a sense of urgency."

"To record a matter as occurrence only, it would be a person coming into a police station and saying I just want this recorded."

He doubts he knew Marion had secretly changed her name to Florabella Natalia Marion Remakel or that her passport was used to re enter Australia on 2 August 1997. Such information was "out of the ordinary" and he would have noted it.

He assumes he'd have filed it as a missing person case, had the words "I want to report my mother as a missing person" been used, and denies making an error. He said many people would walk in and report things they only wished police to note.

Mr Childs, who joined NSW Police in 1977 and retired in 2002, admitted he'd not been aware of the standing policy on missing person reports when speaking to Sally. He'd also never run a missing person case.

In a statement to the inquest, the boss of the NSW Missing Persons Registry says Marion should have been considered a missing person in October 1997.

But Mr Childs was "a little astounded" someone could form an opinion in hindsight "when they weren't there at the time and didn't have the information I had at the time".

Summary:

• he was a police officer for TWENTY years and a Senior Constable at the time
• yet claims to not have known the procedures for missing persons nor ever run a missing person's case
• he just thought Sally wanted him to make a note her mum was missing and account was drained from the bank a few doors down, not actually follow up on any of it
• he denies making mistakes.

 

[Brissie Sleuth]

Inquest Day Three
Cop can't recall 'urgency', by Luke Costin, AAP

Witness: Graham Child - former senior constable, Byron Bay Police 1997

Mr Childs said he has no independent recollection of taking the report from Sally, but assumes from his notes that she only wanted the matter noted.

"Without trying to sound dismissive, it would appear the information I was given didn't create a sense of urgency."

"To record a matter as occurrence only, it would be a person coming into a police station and saying I just want this recorded."

He doubts he knew Marion had secretly changed her name to Florabella Natalia Marion Remakel or that her passport was used to re enter Australia on 2 August 1997. Such information was "out of the ordinary" and he would have noted it.

He assumes he'd have filed it as a missing person case, had the words "I want to report my mother as a missing person" been used, and denies making an error. He said many people would walk in and report things they only wished police to note.

Mr Childs, who joined NSW Police in 1977 and retired in 2002, admitted he'd not been aware of the standing policy on missing person reports when speaking to Sally. He'd also never run a missing person case.

In a statement to the inquest, the boss of the NSW Missing Persons Registry says Marion should have been considered a missing person in October 1997.

But Mr Childs was "a little astounded" someone could form an opinion in hindsight "when they weren't there at the time and didn't have the information I had at the time".

Summary:

• he was a police officer for TWENTY years and a Senior Constable at the time
• yet claims to not have known the procedures for missing persons nor ever run a missing person's case
• he just thought Sally wanted him to make a note her mum was missing and account was drained from the bank a few doors down, not actually follow up on any of it
• he denies making mistakes.

strange police officer isnt he!

 

[Brissie Sleuth]

it was also a missed opportunity to interview passengers and flight attendants from the flight marion was on when entering Australia. all flights have passenger manifests and seat numbers and witnesses couldve confirmed if they actually saw marion and how she was acting. also couldve possibly spoken to fellow seat passengers. by the time the re entry forms were discovered the memories wouldve long faded.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Yes, yes, yes! His choice to ignore Sally was catastrophic for Marion and excellent for the culprit.

When Sally walked into the police station, she only knew two things - her mum was overseas AND a thief had drained her bank account from Byron Bay.

As if she didn't sound devastated or 'urgent' when talking to Graham Childs.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

You know what? Now is the perfect time for everyone to take a moment to post ALL of their questions regarding the case. There are so many confusing elements, things we've forgotten, and things everyone else seems to understand that I don't get. ASK THE QUESTIONS, get it all out

I’d like to know why Marion chose the names Florabella Natalia - especially the Florabella, where on earth did the idea for that come from? And of course I want to know who this Mr Remakel is that she apparently married.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Just noticed this post from a while back, so true, hadn't thought of it:

A clue was given in the podcast that someone remembers that name from a payroll. He'll therefore have a bank account, superannuation and an ATO record.

Basically, there was a Remakel who worked at Trenwest (now Worldmark), a timeshare/resort company, located at Southport across the street from the Arts Centre. A former employee processed staff wages and clearly remembers the name Remakel sometime between 2001-04, but does not know if it was a man or woman.

If the Remakel was on payroll, then there's a digital footprint and a big fat juicy trail. Amazed that no police noticed it. Hmm, but not really, because we know no one was actually looking.

Can't wait to hear what the inquest has to say about it.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

**The next few posts of mine are from the inquest and now public info**

I’m not 100% sure, but from what I understand from the inquest, it seems Marion only had the ONE account in Australia - Colonial State Bank, with her main branch being Ashmore. As we know, Colonial later merged into Commonwealth Bank.

I *think* every time ‘records from CBA’ are mentioned, it just means ‘Colonial records now held by CBA’.
Additionally, when I search for Colonial in Byron Bay, it’s the same address as the current CBA in Byron Bay.
For context:

• 1994, Marion moved to QLD to work at TSS and bought her house for $180,000
• March 1997, Marion listed her home for $175,000
• 25 April 1997, sold house for $165,000
• 9 May 1997, Marion signed the transfer for the sale of the property
• 2 June 1997, her mortgage was discharged and she opened a high interest earning account.

Why is this interesting?

Because IMO it seemed unlikely that a thief/conman/corrupt employee would be able to infiltrate and drain her money from two different banks. One bank? Maybe! But fooling two different banks is so much harder to pull off. So until now, it was easy to assume Marion had actually withdrawn her own cash from her two separate accounts.

Now that it seems it’s just one account, with withdrawals from 3 separate locations, I believe it is worth investigating if an employee was known to work at all three locations. Perhaps someone with insider knowledge that the Ashmore branch did not have a Security Officer?

Or, what reason could Marion possibly have for her withdrawal pattern?

• 3.5 weeks of daily $5,000 withdrawals at Byron Bay
• 3 x $5,000 withdrawals at Burleigh Heads
• then back to Byron Bay
  
• then 1 day at Ashmore worth $80,000

Hopefully, the podcast can clarify the one or two banks issue.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Also worth noting is that there are some digital police records remaining from Marion’s case.

These digital records state that Graham Childs noted Sally’s concerns as ‘occurrence only’ and that he did not plan to list Marion as ‘missing’ because it is believed she is capable of behaviours of this nature.

His digital notes on Marion also indicate that he enquired with the bank, they said she used her account, and that the latest transaction was for $80,000 by telegraphic transfer possibly overseas. His records also indicate that he enquired with an officer from the AFP who confirmed Marion had returned to Brisbane on 2 August 1997.

Which is interesting (and slightly contradictory IMO) given the evidence he gave yesterday.

Hopefully we’ll learn more about this.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

This next timeline is worth close attention

Marion travelled overseas two prior times:

• 1985 to Europe on her honeymoon with Ray Barter
• December 1995 to Norfolk Island with Gregory Edwards (parter/groundskeeper from school)

Interestingly, in mid 1996 Marion applied for a passport under the name of Marion Barter. She did not travel on this passport and it is unknown why she applied for a passport at that time.

• 3 November 1996, Marion made a will with Sally as her executor and beneficiary of the majority of her estate.
• December 1996, Marion told her parents she was going to travel in the new year, despite her father being sick with cancer. It is around this time the podcast mentions that Marion’s family first started seeing a change in her and that she was stressed and not herself.
• 13 May 1997, Marion changed her name by deed poll to Florabella Natalia Marion Remakel.
• 16 May 1997, Marion made an application for a new passport under her new name.
• This was witnessed by dentist Raymond Walduck from the ‘Health Hub’ which was a service available to teachers. Marion had been there previously and seen other doctors, so there’s nothing unusual there, I don’t think.

Q: What’s the earliest date you reckon Marion became aware she was heading overseas? What could have prompted it? Are there clues she is running away being careless and impulsive, or planning ahead and being considered and smart?

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Other points worth noting:

• Marion’s principal at TSS was Bruce Cook (not Greg Wain), and is a witness.
• Her former partner and TSS groundskeeper, Gregory Edwards is a witness.
• The Optometrist from her visit to Grafton Shoppingworld 13 August 1997, Dean Evans, is a witness.
• The inquest and police consider the ‘last sighting’ of Marion to be on the evening of Sunday 22 June 1997 when she was dropped off at the bus stop by Lesley Loveday.

In addition to the inquest, Marion’s missing person case is still being investigated by NSW Police, that is active and onging. They are also trying to locate the ‘Arts Centre Man’.

For context, in May 1997, Sally saw Marion with a man in her car at a service station on Ferry Road in Southport. Marion later said she knew the man from the Performing Arts Centre at Bundall, and met through mutual friends. He wanted to take her out to say goodbye.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

This next timeline is worth close attention

Marion travelled overseas two prior times:

• 1985 to Europe on her honeymoon with Ray Barter
• December 1995 to Norfolk Island with Gregory Edwards (parter/groundskeeper from school)

Interestingly, in mid 1996 Marion applied for a passport under the name of Marion Barter. She did not travel on this passport and it is unknown why she applied for a passport at that time.

• 3 November 1996, Marion made a will with Sally as her executor and beneficiary of the majority of her estate.
• December 1996, Marion told her parents she was going to travel in the new year, despite her father being sick with cancer. It is around this time the podcast mentions that Marion’s family first started seeing a change in her and that she was stressed and not herself.
• 13 May 1997, Marion changed her name by deed poll to Florabella Natalia Marion Remakel.
• 16 May 1997, Marion made an application for a new passport under her new name.
• This was witnessed by dentist Raymond Walduck from the ‘Health Hub’ which was a service available to teachers. Marion had been there previously and seen other doctors, so there’s nothing unusual there, I don’t think.

Q: What’s the earliest date you reckon Marion became aware she was heading overseas? What could have prompted it? Are there clues she is running away being careless and impulsive, or planning ahead and being

This next timeline is worth close attention

Marion travelled overseas two prior times:

• 1985 to Europe on her honeymoon with Ray Barter
• December 1995 to Norfolk Island with Gregory Edwards (parter/groundskeeper from school)

Interestingly, in mid 1996 Marion applied for a passport under the name of Marion Barter. She did not travel on this passport and it is unknown why she applied for a passport at that time.

• 3 November 1996, Marion made a will with Sally as her executor and beneficiary of the majority of her estate.
• December 1996, Marion told her parents she was going to travel in the new year, despite her father being sick with cancer. It is around this time the podcast mentions that Marion’s family first started seeing a change in her and that she was stressed and not herself.
• 13 May 1997, Marion changed her name by deed poll to Florabella Natalia Marion Remakel.
• 16 May 1997, Marion made an application for a new passport under her new name.
• This was witnessed by dentist Raymond Walduck from the ‘Health Hub’ which was a service available to teachers. Marion had been there previously and seen other doctors, so there’s nothing unusual there, I don’t think.

Q: What’s the earliest date you reckon Marion became aware she was heading overseas? What could have prompted it? Are there clues she is running away being careless and impulsive, or planning ahead and being considered and smart?

Marion & Johnny also travelled to the UK in 1968 soon after they married.

 

[Brissie Sleuth]

**The next few posts of mine are from the inquest and now public info**



Now that it seems it’s just one account, with withdrawals from 3 separate locations, I believe it is worth investigating if an employee was known to work at all three locations. Perhaps someone with insider knowledge that the Ashmore branch did not have a Security Officer?

Or, what reason could Marion possibly have for her withdrawal pattern?

• 3.5 weeks of daily $5,000 withdrawals at Byron Bay
• 3 x $5,000 withdrawals at Burleigh Heads
• then back to Byron Bay
  
• then 1 day at Ashmore worth $80,000

Hopefully, the podcast can clarify the one or two banks issue.

were these withdrawals thru atm? it would be interesting too to see the times of day the withdrawals occured and if anything could be gleaned from that. its obvious the person withdrawing was trying to hide the draining of money as no one would be normally bothered to visit a bank every day for so long and withdraw smaller sums if you could do a couple of larger transfers or withdrawals. obviously the larger withdrawal mustve been carried out in person within the branch.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Very true Brissie. I don't know the method of withdrawal, but it's assumed it was in cash and in person as ATMs in Aus only let you withdraw between $1,000 and $2,500 tops.

A withdrawal of $10,000 or more (now) sends an alert to to the government regulatory body - Australian Transaction Reports and Analysis Centre (AUSTRAC). I wonder if it was the same or less in 1997? So the Ashmore withdrawal would've been flagged, I suspect. Or maybe it wasn't if there was no Security Officer? I don't know.

Also, banks tellers don't have an official limit of money you can take out at once, it's your money. But the til and how much cash the bank has on hand is limited, so they may not be able to 'service your request' if you suddenly show up without warning and ask for a large sum.

How on earth 'Marion' withdrew $80,000 in one go is a mystery to me. The Salvos letter said it was 'withdrawn', but there was also a couple of suggestions by Graham Childs that it was 'wired potentially overseas'. Whether it was cash or an electronic transfer has yet to be clarified.

Anyone with actual bank knowledge please step in. I don't know a whole lot about this topic.

 

[Brissie Sleuth]

also these locations would require a car to get to, public transport wouldnt link up from ashmore, burleigh, byron and the nsw location. she would have had to rented a car or bought one for cash? then that brings up the question if you rent u have to show ur drivers license. the gold coast train line from brisbane to goldy opened in 1996 so she could have used it too to travel to goldy from the novotel brisbane hotel after she flew in.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Agree, a car would've been needed... also to make the trip to Grafton for Optometrist visit. Optometrist will be a witness soon. You know how sometimes they give you eye drops that make your eyes blurry? You can't drive like that. Just sayin

Honestly, the more I learn about this case, the less I know. I have 728 theories, all of them terrible and probable at the same time.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

3 November 1996, Marion made a will naming Sally as her executor and beneficiary of the majority of her estate.
December 1996, Marion told her parents she was going to travel in the new year.

These two actions by Marion are telling. Presumably, she was already thinking about travelling when she made the will. If Marion was either:

• terminally ill, and intending to run off with a cult, giving them all her possessions and money, or
• planning to disappear forever with the intention of never speaking with her family again

then why would she go to the trouble and spend money to make a will?

Eight months before she went missing, she had the mind to think that if something happened to her, she wanted Sally to be taken care of. That's not the behaviour of someone who wants to cut off all family ties and leave nothing behind.

 

[Brissie Sleuth]

also marion obviously had to live somewhere where she could drive from to all these banks. accommodation or someone elses place. you would need ID to book, plus in those days you would call or physically show up to the premise as internet booking wasnt prevelant. would need to be getting groceries etc so would be out and about at times. if authorities were actually properly looking for her couldve found a booking if it was under her names.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

Marion & Johnny also travelled to the UK in 1968 soon after they married.

George Yardley who encouraged Johnny (& Marion) to come to the UK in Sept 1968 was Scottish however his sister that George stayed with for a while lives the other end of the UK in Tonbridge. We know Marion visited Tonbridge in 1997. Probably just a coincidence but thought I should mention it.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

I "think" they're now saying that her medicare card was used at an optometrist.

An optometrist who was recorded by Medicare as consulting Ms Barter in Grafton in 1997 is also due to give evidence at the inquest.

This optometrist could be very interesting. If Marion needed a prescription, did she return to pick it up when it was ready? Or did she get a referral, and did she turn up for that? Did he keep all his old records ....wouldn't that be great, especially if Marion filled out a form with her address on it. Yes indeed, this Dean Evans could have some important info to share. Here's hoping.