Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #4

[Lulu mac]

So the $80k was taken from Ashmore bank, and yet the “security officer” said look for her in Byron Bay. Why Byron Bay?

I think maybe as the police were in Byron they supposedly asked the “security” at the bank in Byron. And I think that’s where she spent the most time withdrawing $5000 over a number days/wks. That’s just my thought, But yes super confusing.

 

[PhilOlivettifan]

Twitter comments say he's received death threats

That's par for the course if you are doing a documentary on Scientology. Comes with the territory, I would have assumed he'd know that.

 

[sunnynz]

One lead that I feel the podcast hasn't chased down enough is the mention that Luke Glover, the head of the primary (?) school at TSS was Exclusive Brethren (I will abbreviate to EB). I believe it is first mentioned by Marion's Teachers Aide. This is mentioned again in a later episode and was dismissed too readily by the makers of the podcast IMO.

I think it might have even been a senior teacher at the school at the time of Marion's disappearance who said Glover would not have been able to work at a school like TSS if he was EB. I call BS on this - it is something he could have very easily hidden during a job interview and in any case, the school council may not have seen it as a problem. He could have just cast it as him being evangelical Christian, which is what the EB casts itself as.

That teacher is incorrect. So where does that take us?

It was made clear that Marion was one of the only staff at the school who got on with Glover. It seems highly likely that if they found companionship that he would try to convert her.

There is an active EB community in Tunbridge Wells and I feel that this is an angle not explored in the podcast *at all* and while it is highly likely yet another dead end, it is one of the few leads not yet tackled and deserves to be IMO. This case will be given no publicity in the UK, so someone needs to seek out past and present members of the EB around Tunbridge Wells and ask after Marion.

I attended a private girls' Christian school in NZ in the 90s and I had a classmate who was EB. At that time it really wasn't a big deal. We knew she was and although she was a little bit of an outsider, she did still fit in to an extent and her religion wasn't seen as anything outrageous. I know here in NZ EB has become a huge amount more controversial and seen as much more 'fringe' but I would agree that in the 90s this probably wouldn't be a reason for someone to not get a job at a Christian school.

The challenge of course could be finding any kind of online records about EB from the 90s - I know for my ex-classmate she has absolutely zero digital footprint. I have tried a few times to look her up and see where she is now!

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Oh yes, that sort of fizzled out and was never mentioned again. Maybe it was looked into and was ruled out.

I'd love to know what it was that caught the listeners attention.

Yeah, I was so curious I emailed the team late last year and a snippet of the response I got back was, "Fortunately, we have some listeners in LA who are onto this". So that's pretty interesting. Really wondering if it was some kind of convention or event in Tunbridge Wells ..... God forbid that it turns out to be a dental convention

 

[Loxoli]

I can answer the last part of the question!

There were two seperate bank accounts with two different banks. One with CBA and one with Colonial.

Sally said she didn’t know about the colonial account and only had the cba details because Marion gave them to her to deposit the car sale proceeds. So the phone banking lady wouldn’t have known about the colonial accounts.

I think that’s correct anyway. Remember that super confusing episode about banks and bank layouts? Haha

I’ve just messaged the podcast page because imagine if the coroner takes the wrong date into account. Hopefully they can seek some clarification considering the fact that it’s one of her last known movements (if it was her).

Oh yes, thank you so much. I completely forgot about the two banks detail.

I confirmed with the podcast page that the correct date is the 15th. The 5th was said by someone and then picked up by other media. I know it was a small detail but given it was one of the last known things she did (if it was her), I thought it was important to clarify incase it changed anything!

Also day 8 today - Deirdre and Bronwyn are giving evidence. That should be interesting to hear about!

Thanks so much for checking. I’ll fix the timeline. Great work!

 

[Loxoli]

Timeline (revised)
Credit to @Peralta with other contributions in italics.

22 June 1997

• Marion tells family and friends she is going to England for possibly a year.
• Passenger card states she's permanently leaving for Luxembourg and her flight departs from Australia and arrives in England, which is crossed out and replaced with South Korea.

(Did she even know she was going to South Korea? If she bought her own ticket, she would know, surely!)

30 June 1997

• Sally receives letter postmarked Tunbridge Wells, on stationery from Narita, Japan

July 1997

• Sally/relative receives postcards postmarked Brighton, Kent, Sussex Coast and London.
• Sally receives postcard postmarked 7 July from Hastings.
• Also sent letters/postcards to some of her students during this period.
• Sent early gift to sister for her 7 August birthday.

15 July 1997

• Original date Marion’s was going to travel on Orient Express.

1 August 1997 (late afternoon/early evening AEST)

Marion calls Sally from payphone. She says she’s in Tunbridge Wells having tea and scones with ladies she just met. Says she won't be calling or sending postcards for a while in order to enjoy vacation. However, it’s likely she was already in transit to Australia.

2 August 1997 (AEST)

Marion arrives in Australia on Florabella passport. Not sure if she entered through Sydney or Brisbane airport. There’s some mention of her possibly staying at the Novotel hotel in Brisbane.

August 1997

• Postcards arrive in Australia from Marion in England.

7 August 1997

Canceled RACQ membership and policy (roadside assistance and vehicle insurance).

13 August 1997

Medicare card is used at optometrist at Grafton Shoppingworld.

30 August 1997

Date (unknown if that is the postmark or written date) on the last known postcard from Marion in Tunbridge England to Deirdre in Australia.

August to September 1997

$5000 withdrawn every day for 3.5 weeks at Commonwealth Bank Byron Bay and 3 days in middle at Burleigh Heads, totalling between $85k to $120k.

15 October 1997

$80000 withdrawal from Ashmore branch. (Note: some MSM reported this as happening on 5th October, however the podcast team confirmed the 15th October date)

18 October 1997

Owen’s birthday. He did not hear from Marion.

22 October 1997

Sally visits Byron Bay bank and police, and reports Marion as missing.

 

[Mjjj14]

The latest postcard that has emerged was of Strand Gate at Winchelsea.

The interesting aspect to this is Winchelsea is only few minutes away from the old Barclays Bank at Rye in East Sussex where Marion’s bank transfer money was held.

Winchelsea is a very small town. Rye although larger is still a small town. Not the usual place to leave money unless you knew the area. And why not transfer it to Tunbridge Wells where you are staying?

Hi Lord Peter,

Where did you read the info about the latest postcard being from Winchelsea? I think I’ve missed something. Do we know the date on this one? Was Jack Wilson still right in saying that the last postcard received was from Tunbridge on 30 Aug? Or was this postcard of Winchelsea just a photo of Winchelsea and still sent from Tunbridge?

Also Tunbridge is the smaller town and Tunbridge Wells is slightly larger right? It makes it even more weird that the 30 August postcard was sent from Tunbridge because it’s not a big place at all.

 

[poppypopcorn]

Have posted before on these threads and have been quoted on the podcast - I'm the UK poster who brought up the Eurotunnel /Eurostar service opening in 1995 and mentioned how easy it would have been to travel to continental Europe.

I remain convinced that there was purpose in Marion's trip to that corner of the UK. It is hard to get across to non-Brits how strange it is to dedicate a long visit to a rural area with small towns. Nearly all Australian visitors (and those from other countries too) want to see London, York, Edinburgh, Stonehenge, the Lake District.... although Kent and East Sussex is very pretty, it's really not top of most people's lists. Unless you chose that particular location for other reasons of course.

On the marriage thing - not convinced. In the UK we have had the system of proclamation of banns in church for centuries, and if you want to marry in a civil ceremony in a register office, you have to give notice. You have to give 28 days notice in person (both parties), and have been in the country for 7 days before you give that notice, so 5 weeks total. Registrars are sticklers for the rules and would not have deviated from them. They also ask to see identity documents and interview you to make sure you understand what is going on, and that you're not being coerced. If Marion entered the UK on a tourist visa (likely) then she's not allowed to marry under the conditions of that visa, she'd have had to apply for a fiancee visa to marry an EU national in the UK. Registrars being employed by the government are not going to ignore those laws. There's just not enough time for Marion to have arrived in the UK at the end of June and organised a wedding for the first week in July. I am not sure what the rules are in Luxembourg but nowhere in Europe is like the movies where the characters say "Let's go to Vegas!" and are married the same day.

 

[poppypopcorn]

Tonbridge.
(Royal) Tunbridge Wells.

Tunbridge Wells is more known in the UK and has the Pantiles. 60k population, quite a nice little town centre. (Although not that much to occupy a tourist for 6 whole weeks or more)

Tonbridge is smaller at 40k people and just north of Tunbridge Wells, and there's a castle.

 

[Mjjj14]

Have posted before on these threads and have been quoted on the podcast - I'm the UK poster who brought up the Eurotunnel /Eurostar service opening in 1995 and mentioned how easy it would have been to travel to continental Europe.

I remain convinced that there was purpose in Marion's trip to that corner of the UK. It is hard to get across to non-Brits how strange it is to dedicate a long visit to a rural area with small towns. Nearly all Australian visitors (and those from other countries too) want to see London, York, Edinburgh, Stonehenge, the Lake District.... although Kent and East Sussex is very pretty, it's really not top of most people's lists. Unless you chose that particular location for other reasons of course.

On the marriage thing - not convinced. In the UK we have had the system of proclamation of banns in church for centuries, and if you want to marry in a civil ceremony in a register office, you have to give notice. You have to give 28 days notice in person (both parties), and have been in the country for 7 days before you give that notice, so 5 weeks total. Registrars are sticklers for the rules and would not have deviated from them. They also ask to see identity documents and interview you to make sure you understand what is going on, and that you're not being coerced. If Marion entered the UK on a tourist visa (likely) then she's not allowed to marry under the conditions of that visa, she'd have had to apply for a fiancee visa to marry an EU national in the UK. Registrars being employed by the government are not going to ignore those laws. There's just not enough time for Marion to have arrived in the UK at the end of June and organised a wedding for the first week in July. I am not sure what the rules are in Luxembourg but nowhere in Europe is like the movies where the characters say "Let's go to Vegas!" and are married the same day.

Hi! I remember your older posts, glad you’re back! Thanks for your insight into UK marriage laws/rules, not surprisingly it sounds very similar to Australia’s rules.

I remember doing some research into the marriage laws in Luxembourg and posting about it on these threads a long time ago. I’m sure I could find my old post but getting married in Luxembourg seems much harder than it is in the UK or Aus (just in terms of extremely tight requirements).

I can’t wait until we hear more info about the postcards to see where exactly the last one was sent from. Jack Wilson did say Tunbridge England and not Tunbridge Wells, but I would love to hear more about it.

 

[Loxoli]

Have posted before on these threads and have been quoted on the podcast - I'm the UK poster who brought up the Eurotunnel /Eurostar service opening in 1995 and mentioned how easy it would have been to travel to continental Europe.

I remain convinced that there was purpose in Marion's trip to that corner of the UK. It is hard to get across to non-Brits how strange it is to dedicate a long visit to a rural area with small towns. Nearly all Australian visitors (and those from other countries too) want to see London, York, Edinburgh, Stonehenge, the Lake District.... although Kent and East Sussex is very pretty, it's really not top of most people's lists. Unless you chose that particular location for other reasons of course.

On the marriage thing - not convinced. In the UK we have had the system of proclamation of banns in church for centuries, and if you want to marry in a civil ceremony in a register office, you have to give notice. You have to give 28 days notice in person (both parties), and have been in the country for 7 days before you give that notice, so 5 weeks total. Registrars are sticklers for the rules and would not have deviated from them. They also ask to see identity documents and interview you to make sure you understand what is going on, and that you're not being coerced. If Marion entered the UK on a tourist visa (likely) then she's not allowed to marry under the conditions of that visa, she'd have had to apply for a fiancee visa to marry an EU national in the UK. Registrars being employed by the government are not going to ignore those laws. There's just not enough time for Marion to have arrived in the UK at the end of June and organised a wedding for the first week in July. I am not sure what the rules are in Luxembourg but nowhere in Europe is like the movies where the characters say "Let's go to Vegas!" and are married the same day.

Thanks for sharing the information about rules around weddings. That’s really helpful.

I’m not dedicated to any particular theory, but I think it’s still possible that her intention was marriage, but it didn’t eventuate. She might have been promised a proposal after she was eligible or even engaged to be married, but the plan fell through for some reason and she had to return.

 

[Loxoli]

Has anyone seen any media reports from the inquest yesterday (Thursday)? I can’t find anything. There is a new podcast episode dropping at midnight, but I believe it’s still covering last week’s evidence.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

The latest I could find is about Wednesdays, but it's behind a paywall. Doesn't seem there is anything there that's new.

burgerIcon

 

[TootsieFootsie]

alisonsandy
@alisonsandy
·
16h
Day 8 of the inquest into Marion Barter - today we hear from Marion’s 2 sisters Deirdre and Bronwyn and more on those new postcards sent from the UK after she apparently was back in Australia. #theladyvanishes


https://twitter.com/alisonsandy/status/1410361511218798595?s=20

 

[Loxoli]

alisonsandy
@alisonsandy
·
16h
Day 8 of the inquest into Marion Barter - today we hear from Marion’s 2 sisters Deirdre and Bronwyn and more on those new postcards sent from the UK after she apparently was back in Australia. #theladyvanishes


https://twitter.com/alisonsandy/status/1410361511218798595?s=20

Oh I can’t wait to hear more about the postcards. They are still referring to them as ‘new’ and are indicating there are multiple, so it seems like there is more to this than just the one the mentioned in an earlier podcast (30th August postcard).

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Has anyone seen any media reports from the inquest yesterday (Thursday)? I can’t find anything. There is a new podcast episode dropping at midnight, but I believe it’s still covering last week’s evidence.

A new episode about the inquest dropped at midnight last night, inquest Part 3.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Whoops, sorry @Loxoli, was too late to delete last post, may it be stricken from the record ... just repeated what you asked and gave no answer, haha.
All I've been able to find of the recent day's inquest are these two, but they're behind paywalls, alas and woe, Gold Coast Bulletin and Daily Telegraph. Would love to know what's in 'em!
Marion Barter inquest: Family told to ‘stop looking’ for mum’
Gold Coast Bulletin·1 day ago


Vanished mum: ‘I’m far, far away’
Daily Telegraph·1 day ago

 

[Loxoli]

Whoops, sorry @Loxoli, was too late to delete last post, may it be stricken from the record ... just repeated what you asked and gave no answer, haha.
All I've been able to find of the recent day's inquest are these two, but they're behind paywalls, alas and woe, Gold Coast Bulletin and Daily Telegraph. Would love to know what's in 'em!
Marion Barter inquest: Family told to ‘stop looking’ for mum’
Gold Coast Bulletin·1 day ago

View attachment 303137
Vanished mum: ‘I’m far, far away’
Daily Telegraph·1 day ago

No worries! That’s fine. I’m just happy to see so many people involved in this thread at the moment, even if we are occasionally posting the same things.

Thanks for finding those articles. I don’t have access either, but hopefully someone here does.

 

[Loxoli]

The podcast is doing a great job at keeping up with the inquest, considering the amount of info. I haven’t had a chance to catch the 6pm updates on 7news. I’m just really surprised at the lack of interest from other media companies. It would be really helpful to have a one article summary with accurate info at the end of each day, or even some live tweets. I’m thinking of the William Tyrrell inquest. Lia Waters live tweeted all the info, did a one page article at the end of the day, appearances on 10 news and updated the podcast. I’m not saying that 7news should be doing more, because I think they are amazing and the podcast is so thorough and helpful, but where’s the interest from other media?!

 

[vivienbee]

Whoops, sorry @Loxoli, was too late to delete last post, may it be stricken from the record ... just repeated what you asked and gave no answer, haha.
All I've been able to find of the recent day's inquest are these two, but they're behind paywalls, alas and woe, Gold Coast Bulletin and Daily Telegraph. Would love to know what's in 'em!
Marion Barter inquest: Family told to ‘stop looking’ for mum’
Gold Coast Bulletin·1 day ago

View attachment 303137
Vanished mum: ‘I’m far, far away’
Daily Telegraph·1 day ago

Omg these headlines sound like they contain really vital info...?