Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #5

[poppypopcorn]

I think the red squirrels are a (excuse the pun) red herring.

If as the Australians say squirrels aren't a thing in Australia, then you can forgive Marion for not being up on her grey squirrel, red squirrel thing. She's a primary school teacher using Beatrix Potter books, with red squirrels in. She sees a much more common grey squirrel in Kent and mis-writes the postcard. That's the most likely scenario in my opinion.

Haven't listened to the last episode yet but if a school in Windermere is mentioned it's worth reiterating a couple of points - Marion could NOT work legally in the UK, even if she had married an EU citizen she'd have had to jump through all sorts of hoops to verify her qualifications and get a residence visa. No self-respecting school would have hired her. Illegal workers don't get employed in schools, they work in cash in hand restaurants, pubs, agriculture.

Also, Windermere is as far as you can get from Tunbridge Wells/Hastings and still be in England. It's literally one end of the country to the other. 7 hours in the car. Complicated train journey with changes of station in London. She was in south east England for a reason.

 

[poppypopcorn]

Marion has also misspelled "squirrel" as squirrell and "divine" as "devine" - isn't that a bit odd for a teacher?

 

[sunnybree]

Marion has also misspelled "squirrel" as squirrell and "divine" as "devine" - isn't that a bit odd for a teacher?

I think yes and no. You would think a teacher has good grammar and spelling and neat handwriting but there is always a news story every year about how some teachers may have weaknesses in grammar, spelling, maths etc. I’ve know people with Masters Degrees to have poor spelling, even though they have prepared numerous written assessments and they rely on quality checking in some form to edit their work. Spelling mistakes in a quickly written post card may not mean anything.

 

[JLZ]

Marion has also misspelled "squirrel" as squirrell and "divine" as "devine" - isn't that a bit odd for a teacher?

I don't think she wrote squirrell. It's the y from 'my' on the line above hanging down. DEVINE isn't a misspelling, it's an adjustment to convey tone.

 

[JLZ]

I think the red squirrels are a (excuse the pun) red herring.

If as the Australians say squirrels aren't a thing in Australia, then you can forgive Marion for not being up on her grey squirrel, red squirrel thing. She's a primary school teacher using Beatrix Potter books, with red squirrels in. She sees a much more common grey squirrel in Kent and mis-writes the postcard. That's the most likely scenario in my opinion.

Haven't listened to the last episode yet but if a school in Windermere is mentioned it's worth reiterating a couple of points - Marion could NOT work legally in the UK, even if she had married an EU citizen she'd have had to jump through all sorts of hoops to verify her qualifications and get a residence visa. No self-respecting school would have hired her. Illegal workers don't get employed in schools, they work in cash in hand restaurants, pubs, agriculture.

Also, Windermere is as far as you can get from Tunbridge Wells/Hastings and still be in England. It's literally one end of the country to the other. 7 hours in the car. Complicated train journey with changes of station in London. She was in south east England for a reason.

In the earlier postcard (the one where she asked Sally to deliver the scales etc) she said she'd seen "squirrels and rabbits all over the [something I can't read]"; this postcard, which is later because it refers to the scales request, says she has seen her first red squirrel. So I think she's distinguishing between the grey and the red. I don't know if it makes any/much difference with regard to the squirrels, but most of the places that she's mentioned are in East Sussex not Kent: Rye, Hastings, Alfriston.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Found that Windermere reference @SaintGertrude, ah yes, there it is in Dr Bruce Cook's evidence Episode 5 at 15.27 mins, about a discussion with Marion at the end of 1996 re a possible exchange to a Lakes District school, St Anne's in Windemere. Here's a reminder pic of BC, Marion and LG ... it's probably in the earlier threads here, but from TLV Facebook page.


***Edit to add random thought. I was hoping to hear from Mr Cook about whether TSS subscribed to Le Courrier Australien and if Marion would have had access to copies at the school. Or, if anyone knew if Marion read it .... that would have been interesting. However, we are only getting tiny snippets of evidence in the podcasts, maybe it has been asked and answered.

 

[Estelle]

I don't think she wrote squirrell. It's the y from 'my' on the line above hanging down. DEVINE isn't a misspelling, it's an adjustment to convey tone.

Isn't there only one way to spell "divine"? What do you mean?

 

[K8g]

Does anybody know the ins and outs of how redacted information in reports works in an inquest? Does the coroner have access to the full report? Surely there's a lot of information in those redacted NSW Police reports that's of relevance, but there's not much mention of it.

 

[Estelle]

What puzzles me about the "squirrels" postcard is that Marion says, "next stop Amsterdam". Also the mention of a Dutch dentist and Mazz who it seems could be a male. Could Marion have been going with two men to Amsterdam?

Didn't Marion's return ticket begin from Heathrow not Amsterdam?

 

[Estelle]

Does anybody know the ins and outs of how redacted information in reports works in an inquest? Does the coroner have access to the full report? Surely there's a lot of information in those redacted NSW Police reports that's of relevance, but there's not much mention of it.

Redacted reports are not available to the general public but they are available to the Coroner.

 

[vivienbee]

Isn't there only one way to spell "divine"? What do you mean?

I think they mean that they are saying "DEVINE" in a similar way to how someone might say "DEEE-licious", placing emphasis on the start of the word to show how it is being spoken and to convey intensity of feeling. It's quite a common thing for people to do.

 

[Estelle]

I think they mean that they are saying "DEVINE" in a similar way to how someone might say "DEEE-licious", placing emphasis on the start of the word to show how it is being spoken and to convey intensity of feeling. It's quite a common thing for people to do.

In that case, "DEEEVINE"?

 

[JLZ]

I think they mean that they are saying "DEVINE" in a similar way to how someone might say "DEEE-licious", placing emphasis on the start of the word to show how it is being spoken and to convey intensity of feeling. It's quite a common thing for people to do.

Yes that's what I mean. I'm confident Marion knows how to spell "divine". I don't think there's anything strange there as Poppycorn suggested. The only thing I've wondered is whether they're a bit too sightseer-like to be true, packed with things she might have got out of a tourist brochure--and was in a different location altogether.

 

[Estelle]

Yes that's what I mean. I'm confident Marion knows how to spell "divine". I don't think there's anything strange there as Poppycorn suggested. The only thing I've wondered is whether they're a bit too sightseer-like to be true, packed with things she might have got out of a tourist brochure--and was in a different location altogether.

Yes that makes sense.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I think squirrels are not an animal that Australians think of. We don't read about them in our news.
I can only think of one or two times I've read about squirrels in the past so many years.

I think it's hardly surprising that someone may add an extra l on the end. Many words here have the extra l while there may be just the one l in for instance the american spelling.

Marion has also misspelled "squirrel" as squirrell and "divine" as "devine" - isn't that a bit odd for a teacher?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I read a news article recently about squirrels and it surprised me because I thought that squirrels were only in the US.

This story was in the last few months and it was about a squirrel that's baby had got itself into a jam and the parent was seeking help from a human. This was in the UK and until then I didn't know the UK had squirrels.

 

[SaintGertrude]

What puzzles me about the "squirrels" postcard is that Marion says, "next stop Amsterdam". Also the mention of a Dutch dentist and Mazz who it seems could be a male. Could Marion have been going with two men to Amsterdam?

Didn't Marion's return ticket begin from Heathrow not Amsterdam?

There is another airport mentioned in the 1997 Hastings directory, possibly Stanstead but Gatwick is the nearest for planes to Holland or the train. I would imagine Marion would have purchased a seperate ticket as her return to Australia wouldn't stop there. Orient Express was her chosen form of European travel which she told Sally she had cancelled.

 

[poppypopcorn]

No, Stanstead is north east of London and not that close to the area where she was. Stanstead is mostly used by the budget airlines like EasyJet and Ryanair. Ryanair wasn't operating in the UK in 1997 in any big way, EasyJet had begun operating and did have an Amsterdam route, but from Luton not Stanstead. Luton was mainly an airport for chartered holiday flights at that time.

Gatwick airport is the closest to where Marion was staying, or Heathrow. The other two airports aren't FAR (especially in Australian terms) but getting there involves either an awkward journey by train through the capital and changing stations, or driving round the M25 motorway.

For someone who enjoyed trains anyway, it seems to make more sense to drive to nearby Ashford, hop on a Eurostar service to Brussels, then another to Amsterdam. Probably wouldn't take much longer than driving when you factor in the drive to teh airport and the check in times, then transport to the city at the other end.

 

[SaintGertrude]

Loveday is quite an unusual surname. There was one person with the surname living in Hastings in 1997 according to the 1997 phone directory. Most people didn't have mobiles back then so anyone with the surname is likely to be in there.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

I think Marion makes at least 3 references of going to The Netherlands (Amsterdam in particular) but the one that intrigued me the most is her postcard of London Bridge written to Sal & Chris. It says ‘eagerly looking forward to seeing Van Gogh’s sunflowers and REVISIT Holland’. When did she last visit Holland? Also as far as I know the Orient Express doesn’t pass through Holland so this doesn’t appear to make sense if she intended doing both. And now she mentions a Dutch dentist in the newly found postcard. An awful lot of Dutch references.