Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #5

[Itsapuzzle]

Was just listening to another podcast and they mentioned the Wayback Machine. I wondered if anyone's exhausted that as an avenue of investigation? I started poking around, not a lot of sites on there from 1997. It seems like 1998 was when it kicked in. I looked up the arts centre website, Australian singles/dating sites (couldn't really search around those though, kept getting server errors), Le courier, a few Luxembourg sites. If anyone can think of any ideas on what we could search for I'm happy to do some more digging!

Yes, and it seems every time I find something that looks really interesting to do with 1997 it says "Webpage snapshot not found", or images are inaccessible, you just get that little square sitting in the corner of an empty box .... will throw some suggestions your way when I think of 'em .... most recent searches have been for deed poll info, uk accommodation, the art's centre, RSL club, passenger cards, haha, TSS ...........

 

[KiwiNZ]

Homicide investigators must have Marions overseas travel/passenger records by now. I’m guessing that’s a logical early investigative step and probably info countries share with one another all the time for investigative purposes. The fact that her travel is not yet publicly known makes me wonder if there were unexpected destinations in her travel that are significant re the investigation. If she had simply flown AU to London, through S Korea-would that have been confirmed publicly by now?

I was looking on line and I see that airline manifests only have to be held for 90 days ( this could be incorrect it was only a quick google)

So I assume it the UK arrival and departure cards that will be the most help .. and you would assume this wouldn't be hard to get ?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Same nothing from my attempts there. I regularly get an idea and check it out there.

I have spent a heap of time on the wayback machine ... quite addictive ... but found nothing so far.

 

[AutumnLibrarian]

When my mum turned 60 she rang to tell me that she had signed up for acting classes. Marion sounds a lot like my mum and it made me wonder if she may have had a similar "midlife crisis" thought.
I saw on the Internet Archive that UNE Armidale had a theatre degree in 1997 and Byron Bay has a very active arts community.
Is this an avenue that anyone has looked into?

 

[SaintGertrude]

Was just listening to another podcast and they mentioned the Wayback Machine. I wondered if anyone's exhausted that as an avenue of investigation? I started poking around, not a lot of sites on there from 1997. It seems like 1998 was when it kicked in. I looked up the arts centre website, Australian singles/dating sites (couldn't really search around those though, kept getting server errors), Le courier, a few Luxembourg sites. If anyone can think of any ideas on what we could search for I'm happy to do some more digging!

It looks interesting but not sure how it works. Maybe look up known fraudsters at the time of Marion's vanishing. Also anything to do with TSS school at the time may be worth a mention.

 

[SaintGertrude]

It looks interesting but not sure how it works. Maybe look up known fraudsters at the time of Marion's vanishing. Also anything to do with TSS school at the time may be worth a mention.

This link came up when I typed in Southlands School TSS and 1997. Nothing noteworthy relating to Marion and her trip to the UK and events following. The headmaster at the time worked previously in the 1970's as Assistant Master at Rugby School in the United Kingdom The Southport School and PAST HEADMASTERS SINCE THE FOUNDER

 

[SaintGertrude]

This link appears to be around 1998 just after Marion's departure from TSS but she may have been aware of the pre-planning of visitors from the exchange schools mentioned.

 

[SaintGertrude]

This investment company is listed in the TSS magazine and may be a company Marion could have used to invest her money she withdrew.

 

[SaintGertrude]

Mention of Brighton, UK in the TSS magazine which is 27 miles away from Tunbridge Wells and also a town Marion visited when she went to the Cat shop.
Found via Wayback Machine search
JAN JUN NOV
27
1996 1997 1998
3 captures
19 Jan 1997 - 14 Nov 1997

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Could the visit to the optometrist in Grafton have been to get some glasses to alter the imposter's look, to hide features? And could the delay in removing the large sum of money from the Ashmore bank branch be because they were waiting for staff to change-over, someone new there .... or did the imposter/associate work there as a fill-in for a short time then? Still curious about this. They need to find exactly who was working on 15 October 1997 at that branch ... have we heard about that yet? So it's just the Colonial bank, nothing to do with Commonwealth Bank back in the day seems to have been confirmed.

 

[Meligator]

I’m so curious about the bank transactions that were recorded in the police hand written notes. It’s not clear from the podcast if those transactions mirror what Sally knew about or some other transaction. Since the police notes were referenced in the inquest, will those become public?

 

[Itsapuzzle]

I’m so curious about the bank transactions that were recorded in the police hand written notes. It’s not clear from the podcast if those transactions mirror what Sally knew about or some other transaction. Since the police notes were referenced in the inquest, will those become public?

Yes, would be good to see those notes Meligator. It's all so very strange. I might type up the banking evidence from the podcast and post it here if anyone's interested. So, the $5000 a day withdrawals over three weeks was explained by David M as maybe because of the high interest account limit of $5000 a day withdrawals .... so was the $80,000 withdrawal on a different low interest account?

 

[KiwiNZ]

Yes, would be good to see those notes Meligator. It's all so very strange. I might type up the banking evidence from the podcast and post it here if anyone's interested. So, the $5000 a day withdrawals over three weeks was explained by David M as maybe because of the high interest account limit of $5000 a day withdrawals .... so was the $80,000 withdrawal on a different low interest account?

How do you withdraw $80K I assume a bank cheque ? or transfer

with that said it seems a bit odd that no remembers her coming into the bank for 3 weeks straight to collect $5000 cash - maybe she set up a daily transfer and only came in once. This may be how the bank was able to track her down ( if that happened)

 

[poppypopcorn]

Meant to add on the "fake marriages" in the UK thing - yes this was a thing, and yes it happened but not fake in the way people are thinking.

It was mainly European union national women being paid to marry men from outside the EU as a way to allow these men to remain in the UK. The two people involved in the marriage were legally allowed to marry in the UK, didn't pretend to be other people or present forged documents.

The issue was that the marriage wasn't genuine, often the bride had only met the groom minutes before the ceremony and knew nothing about him. So it was a marriage of convenience rather than a fake marriage. The Home Office immigration people put couples in this position through high levels of checking and interviewing to make sure that they do actually know each other and are in a genuine relationship.

 

[SaintGertrude]

How do you withdraw $80K I assume a bank cheque ? or transfer

with that said it seems a bit odd that no remembers her coming into the bank for 3 weeks straight to collect $5000 cash - maybe she set up a daily transfer and only came in once. This may be how the bank was able to track her down ( if that happened)

As we are talking about 1997 how did the bank track Marion down and make contact as I would be surprised if she had her own mobile phone back then.

 

[KiwiNZ]

As we are talking about 1997 how did the bank track Marion down and make contact as I would be surprised if she had her own mobile phone back then.

I personally think it did happen that they did contact her ( or the person removing the money if we believe it wasn't her), the bank would exhaust all avenues if the police called them and enquired about fraud on someone's bank account. The bank are liable for that money, if it was fraud then the branch would have to ascertain quickly that it was the person and be satisfied that they had follow all processes otherwise when the real person realized the bank had handed over their money to someone else ( and the police had called to tell the bank of a potential fraud) that would become a major issue for the bank staff if they had done nothing, because that would quickly be escalated to head office and their jobs at risk.

I assume her contact details were up dated so her post wouldn't go to Lesley's, if you organizing a transfer or a bank cheque you typically have to give your contact details, or if the money was transferee to another account they could have tracked her that way, through the other person, they would just place a hold on the account so the person surfaced, if they couldn't contact them, and since their was indication of fraud from the police they can do this.

She had to be staying somewhere ..

I think the fact that the sisters said their father stopped looking because the information given by the bank / SA was enough for him to believe it was Marion whom they spoke to and had left of her own accord, says alot for me. They literally stopped look for years so on some level they must have been convinced

 

[SaintGertrude]

KiwiNZ Quote: She had to be staying somewhere ..
I think the fact that the sisters said their father stopped looking because the information given by the bank / SA was enough for him to believe it was Marion whom they spoke to and had left of her own accord, says alot for me. They literally stopped look for years so on some level they must have been convinced[/QUOTE]

I agree with KiwiNZ that she must have been staying somewhere. In which case her belongings probably only went into short term storage and held at a unit rather than a removal van taking them half way across the world. If Marion was planning to travel around the UK/Europe for around two years and come back it would be pointless to move all her belongings and take them with her. The best lead to look at would be storage units nearer to home.

 

[KiwiNZ]

Queensland - The Disposal of Uncollected Goods Act 1967 covers inspection, custody, storage, repair and other treatment of goods. Under this Act, uncollected goods may be sold six months after the date on which they were ready for collection.

Rules about uncollected goods | Your rights, crime and the law | Queensland Government (www.qld.gov.au)

I wonder if its worth asking Kent (southport) in which paper they would have advertised "abandoned Property" in in 1997/98, if anyone lives in Queensland they could check the library for the old papers.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I wonder how many storage companies actually do advertise even if they're supposed to.

I wonder if its worth asking Kent (southport) in which paper they would have advertised "abandoned Property" in in 1997/98, if anyone lives in Queensland they could check the library for the old papers.

 

[KiwiNZ]

Queensland - The Disposal of Uncollected Goods Act 1967 covers inspection, custody, storage, repair and other treatment of goods. Under this Act, uncollected goods may be sold six months after the date on which they were ready for collection.

Rules about uncollected goods | Your rights, crime and the law | Queensland Government (www.qld.gov.au)

I wonder if its worth asking Kent in which paper they would have advertised "abandoned Property" in in 1997/98, if anyone lives in Queensland they could check the library for the old papers.

I wonder how many storage companies actually do advertise even if they're supposed to.

I remember growing up there was always a big list of them in the paper every Sunday .. that is why I was surprised I couldn't find any on Trove but I don't think Trove is all that great actually, I don't think it has a huge amount of content, when you think of the amount of "lonely hearts" adverts you got pre-2005, but you don't seem to be able to find a lot on Trove.

Pretty sure all of the large storage firms would have followed the letter of the law, its not worth the fines if they didn't.