Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997

[Cliff Hardy]

Listened to Conversations 8 in full on the way home tonight.

It was listenable. But 45 minutes duration with so little real content was a stretch, and after the promising headlines of "possible breakthrough"all in all it was pretty disappointing.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Yes I agree

 

[Viennamoo]

I listened to conversations today. I had to giggle at their expectation of being notified when the detective goes on annual leave. Isn’t the case closed in nsw eyes? Why would the detective ring you and tell you he is taking 2 weeks annual leave?. Give the guy a break.

It’s funny, I’m actually now of the total belief that Marion disappeared of her own will. Whether she’s still alive is a different story, but I believe it was all an orchestrated plan. Even down to staying in touch with them whilst overseas, the phone call saying you won’t hear from me as much, was to buy her time to come back to Australia. She wanted everyone to think she was overseas, so they would search for her there.
She took the money out legitimately and would not have expected the phone operator to breach her privacy and tell Sally the money had been taken out of her account or where it was taken out.
She didn’t tell sally where her things were in the shipping container because she likely removed them the same time as taking the money.

 

[angeelll]

I listened to conversations today. I had to giggle at their expectation of being notified when the detective goes on annual leave. Isn’t the case closed in nsw eyes? Why would the detective ring you and tell you he is taking 2 weeks annual leave?. Give the guy a break.

It’s funny, I’m actually now of the total belief that Marion disappeared of her own will. Whether she’s still alive is a different story, but I believe it was all an orchestrated plan. Even down to staying in touch with them whilst overseas, the phone call saying you won’t hear from me as much, was to buy her time to come back to Australia. She wanted everyone to think she was overseas, so they would search for her there.
She took the money out legitimately and would not have expected the phone operator to breach her privacy and tell Sally the money had been taken out of her account or where it was taken out.
She didn’t tell sally where her things were in the shipping container because she likely removed them the same time as taking the money.

So why then leave 20,000 untouched in a Barclays bank account? Or never have any trace of being alive ever again. Even to the point where she hasn't even updated her will. Or shown any documentation of changing her name again. I think that she was with a man who was taking her to the back country in Europe, but had other plans to get rid of her to take her money. He might not have known about her Barclays account and therefore never touched it. She probably met a man who convinced her to sell all her belongings and house to go explore Europe with him. In doing this he set himself up to get ride of her overseas and have access to her account. Whether he himself went in and did the transactions or had another women pose as her is what I don't know.

 

[angeelll]

Listened to Conversations 8 in full on the way home tonight.

It was listenable. But 45 minutes duration with so little real content was a stretch, and after the promising headlines of "possible breakthrough"all in all it was pretty disappointing.

I actually enjoy listening to them each week even if there is little update. It makes me feel included and updated as to what is going on. That is why it is labeled a Conversation and not an Episode.

 

[sunnynz]

I listened to conversations today. I had to giggle at their expectation of being notified when the detective goes on annual leave. Isn’t the case closed in nsw eyes? Why would the detective ring you and tell you he is taking 2 weeks annual leave?. Give the guy a break.

Please remember that per TOS websleuths is a victim friendly forum and sally reads this thread.

If you guys all want to slag off the podcast that’s your right but maybe this isn’t the right forum to do it in.IMO

I think we should stick to sleuthing the case personally.

 

[Meligator]

The podcast/Sally describe the police documents as being heavily redacted— does anyone have knowledge about the kinds of information that would require redaction. Obviously if someone spoke with Marion and she asked for privacy—-that would be redacted — but I can’t imagine what other kinds of information would need to be kept secret?

 

[Meligator]

It’s probably mentioned in the podcast, but I don’t recall...did Marion know/speak French? Any other languages?

 

[TheOracle66]

So why then leave 20,000 untouched in a Barclays bank account? Or never have any trace of being alive ever again. Even to the point where she hasn't even updated her will. Or shown any documentation of changing her name again. I think that she was with a man who was taking her to the back country in Europe, but had other plans to get rid of her to take her money. He might not have known about her Barclays account and therefore never touched it. She probably met a man who convinced her to sell all her belongings and house to go explore Europe with him. In doing this he set himself up to get ride of her overseas and have access to her account. Whether he himself went in and did the transactions or had another women pose as her is what I don't know.

Maybe once Marion was contacted re her money etc she didn't want to leave another trail ie her getting the money back. If she joined a cult the money wasn't really important anymore.

 

[TheOracle66]

The podcast/Sally describe the police documents as being heavily redacted— does anyone have knowledge about the kinds of information that would require redaction. Obviously if someone spoke with Marion and she asked for privacy—-that would be redacted — but I can’t imagine what other kinds of information would need to be kept secret?

The redacted information could contain names and addresses of people the police spoke to who told them marion didnt want to be contacted.

 

[Cliff Hardy]

Please remember that per TOS websleuths is a victim friendly forum and sally reads this thread.

If you guys all want to slag off the podcast that’s your right but maybe this isn’t the right forum to do it in.IMO

I think we should stick to sleuthing the case personally.

The quality of the podcast rests with 7NEWS and specifically Bryan Seymour and Alison Sandy, and is no reflection on Sally.

I will continue to sleuth the case, but I will also continue to be honest in my assessment of the podcast.

 

[Rosewood]

I don’t think questioning the podcast is victim blaming.
One could argue Mr Remakel is a victim here having been ambushed and basically accused of murder.
The podcast is reducing her chance of finding her Mum with click bait sensationalism.
Even mentioning Gary left papers out so she could find out about her Mum’s name change and flights was throwing him under the bus.
We all want Sally to find her Mum. She seems lovely - When your emotional it can cloud perspective how ever.

 

[TheOracle66]

I don’t think questioning the podcast is victim blaming.
One could argue Mr Remakel is a victim here having been ambushed and basically accused of murder.
The podcast is reducing her chance of finding her Mum with click bait sensationalism.
Even mentioning Gary left papers out so she could find out about her Mum’s name change and flights was throwing him under the bus.
We all want Sally to find her Mum. She seems lovely - When your emotional it can cloud perspective how ever.

Yes i thought that too about dobbing Gary in about the paperwork. Yes I think Mr Remakel is being accused. Lets face it, he and marion could of hooked up and that relationship didn't workout as this seems to be the case with all of Marion's relationships, however to basically accuse someone of murder is not nice.

 

[sunnynz]

I don’t think questioning the podcast is victim blaming.

To be clear I was referring to comments like those around Sally’s reaction to the detective going on leave as being unfriendly to victims. My point about criticising the podcast was a separate one to the victim friendly one. Sorry I should have made that more clear.

 

[sunnynz]

The podcast/Sally describe the police documents as being heavily redacted— does anyone have knowledge about the kinds of information that would require redaction. Obviously if someone spoke with Marion and she asked for privacy—-that would be redacted — but I can’t imagine what other kinds of information would need to be kept secret?

It was mentioned in the latest conversations episode that there was redacted detail around why they considered Marion to not be a missing person. That info would obviously hugely enlightening to the whole case imo.

 

[Cliff Hardy]

I don’t think questioning the podcast is victim blaming.
One could argue Mr Remakel is a victim here having been ambushed and basically accused of murder.
The podcast is reducing her chance of finding her Mum with click bait sensationalism.
Even mentioning Gary left papers out so she could find out about her Mum’s name change and flights was throwing him under the bus.
We all want Sally to find her Mum. She seems lovely - When your emotional it can cloud perspective how ever.

At the risk of recrimination, I too was stunned Sally publicly volunteered Detective Senior Constable Sheehan had left papers behind and tipped her off he would be out of the room for a little while.

I would say Sally probably hadn't thought through the repercussions of mentioning that. But the reality is that is how you lose people's trust and Sheehan is important to her in this.

 

[Viennamoo]

To be clear I was referring to comments like those around Sally’s reaction to the detective going on leave as being unfriendly to victims. My point about criticising the podcast was a separate one to the victim friendly one. Sorry I should have made that more clear.

I hardly think me saying that I found it a bit of a laugh that they all expected a phone call to be notified of the detective having annual leave “victim blaming”.
Sally is entitled to feel let down and entitled to want answers, but you also need to be realistic toward the police, they are people too, they are entitled to have annual leave and I think the podcast (not Sally) tbh mainly Brian have been pretty harsh toward Detective Sheehan.

 

[Viennamoo]

So why then leave 20,000 untouched in a Barclays bank account? Or never have any trace of being alive ever again. Even to the point where she hasn't even updated her will. Or shown any documentation of changing her name again. I think that she was with a man who was taking her to the back country in Europe, but had other plans to get rid of her to take her money. He might not have known about her Barclays account and therefore never touched it. She probably met a man who convinced her to sell all her belongings and house to go explore Europe with him. In doing this he set himself up to get ride of her overseas and have access to her account. Whether he himself went in and did the transactions or had another women pose as her is what I don't know.

Maybe the 20k was left in the UK account as a cover. She wanted people to think she went missing from the UK and didn’t travel back to Australia.
As I said, whether she’s alive or not now is a different story, but I believe she wanted to go missing.

 

[Mel 1303]

The question around why Marion left the 20000 in the Barclays bank is an interesting one. To me- Marion went to great pains to plan out whatever it was she was planning. I think she probably intended to return to the UK, but her being tracked down in Australia changed her plans. She probably just stopped trusting the banks- her details should not have been revealed, it was a huge breach of her privacy. Whatever the plan, it was ruined pretty fast.

Marion had changed her name, but only on her passport. I question if there is much significance in the name change- she only changed her passport, not anything else- it seems like a convenience to have a separate identity to use for a while. Part of me feels like all the time spent chasing the name is a bit of a red herring. Those who followed the Lori Ruff case may remember that significant time was spent looking into the significance of the name she chose, and what links there might be to her past. When her identity was revealed, there was nothing to suggest that she didn't just choose a random name. Marion was at pains to let Sally know, during her last call, that she needed a holiday and no one would hear much from her- so lack of communication for a while would not raise a red flag. This was despite the fact she was already on holidays, and had sent copious amounts of letters and postcards. Being on holidays hadn't stopped her so far.

As for returning to the gold coast- she had a shipping container full of goods and a separate bank account with the colonial state bank. I'd say the visits were short and sharp, with her hair up under a hat and some sunglasses on. No one was looking for her- she was overseas.

As I have said before, I believe Marion intended to disappear- but I don't have the same conviction that she intended to disappear forever.

 

[Mel 1303]

At the risk of recrimination, I too was stunned Sally publicly volunteered Detective Senior Constable Sheehan had left papers behind and tipped her off he would be out of the room for a little while.

I would say Sally probably hadn't thought through the repercussions of mentioning that. But the reality is that is how you lose people's trust and Sheehan is important to her in this.

I completely agree. If I ever went missing, I would so want a Sally out there looking for me. A lot of what Sally is saying is in frustration, and in answer to questions she is being asked. I don't think Sally should have said what she said about Gary Sheehan leaving the papers out, and in hindsight she may well agree. I don't have an issue with her saying it, or with her venting. She is a frustrated, hurt and devastated daughter, with too many questions and too few answers. What I have a problem with is a production team that wasn't professional enough about editing it out. The statement should never have made it to air. It's almost like Sally is being bated to make sensational clickbait statements. It doesn't sit well, and it doesn't encourage others with sensitive information to reach out.