Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #10

[Meligator]

I do wonder how RB & MB stayed in contact with one another when traveling. Did he just say “let’s meet up in Narita?” Hard to think back to a time when not everyone used cell phones (possible he/she had one I suppose)—but the idea of just meeting up someplace overseas, without a way to contact one another, seems so risky especially if a delayed/diverted flight. And what about the return. Was it just “meet me at Novotel?”

If I had to guess, RB was running some scams in Japan (unrelated to Marion), but arrived ahead of her to get whatever done he needed done. I mean if he’s going to have a stopover between AU & EU, might as well take advantage of some people there right? A place where is not yet a known criminal.

 

[Carovb5]

I've been having a poke around to see if I can find any more victims. This disappearance is very strange... 2626DFBEL - Georgette Van Acker

Maybe this is also a possibility:
MF-0062

- missing from Belgium
- nice income
- was secretly dating online, so looking for adventure & because of her marriage not talking about who/where
- also Hongarian
- was nog where she said she was (car found in Antwerp, should have been at the dentist in the Nederlands)
- nothing ever found about her whereabouts or disappearance.
- dark haired with striking features in her face

link where the online dating is mentioned:
Kinderarts voor verdwijning erg actief op datingsites

+ for the dutch speaking sleuthers: there’s a short episode on youtube about her.

 

[Carovb5]

I would love some history on this coppenolle collection - has anyone contacted nobles to see if they can get one?

I found a dutch document about a ‘Van Coppenolle’ finding coins and just now finished comparing them to some coins of the ‘Collection’ but no match.

I did find a picture of the coin i mentioned being in the Italian auction in 1997, although now it doesn’t say a thing about Coppenolle Collection. It is the exact same info though!

 

[Newby171]

Good spotting! I did a little search the other day for an 'MJ REID' and 'butcher' as per his arrivals cards and this came up.

Possibly completely unrelated, the photograph isn't very clear but interesting reading re: the container shipment.

17 Apr 1970 - First Container Transportation Bourke Direct to London in Six Weeks - Trove (nla.gov.au)

Very interesting, especially considering RB was talking about meat at the inquest. About how people couldn’t eat UK meat due to mad cow disease concerns, and that he would bring meat from elsewhere.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

Very interesting, especially considering RB was talking about meat at the inquest. About how people couldn’t eat UK meat due to mad cow disease concerns, and that he would bring meat from elsewhere.

Didn’t the discovery of Mad Cows Disease in the UK happen in 1986? So if he was living in the UK (Burwash) from approx 1983 why did he use that as an excuse to do his food shopping in Europe. Also if he was food shopping in Europe I assume he was using a car and coming over by ferry? So why mention that he lived in Burwash because it was close to Gatwick airport?

 

[Meligator]

Maybe this is also a possibility:
MF-0062

- missing from Belgium
- nice income
- was secretly dating online, so looking for adventure & because of her marriage not talking about who/where
- also Hongarian
- was nog where she said she was (car found in Antwerp, should have been at the dentist in the Nederlands)
- nothing ever found about her whereabouts or disappearance.
- dark haired with striking features in her face

link where the online dating is mentioned:
Kinderarts voor verdwijning erg actief op datingsites

+ for the dutch speaking sleuthers: there’s a short episode on youtube about her.

On the way to the dentist — so fitting for this thread

 

[Sillybilly]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

It is Websleuths' long-established policy to only use the full names of victims or persons officially named by LE to be the POI/suspect. This is so the names of innocent people don't crop up in google searches of their name. Members can use the full names of a victim or an officially named POI/suspect but we ask that they use initials for all others.

While it may seem annoying as all get out at first, members do get used to it.

 

[BonnieB]

Good spotting! I did a little search the other day for an 'MJ REID' and 'butcher' as per his arrivals cards and this came up.

Possibly completely unrelated, the photograph isn't very clear but interesting reading re: the container shipment.

17 Apr 1970 - First Container Transportation Bourke Direct to London in Six Weeks - Trove (nla.gov.au)

I could be totally mistaken but I vaguely remember a business connected to one of Mr. AKA's names, that dealt with meat or meat imports etc. Does anyone have notes about this or am I just confused?

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Very interesting, especially considering RB was talking about meat at the inquest. About how people couldn’t eat UK meat due to mad cow disease concerns, and that he would bring meat from elsewhere.

Recall a few days back when I began searching various aliases in Belgium and discovered 1 for meat..? I’ll try and find it.. I think it’s around page 1 or 2 on this thread

 

[CrossingToSafety]

I’ve been thinking about these same issues, and while it’s not a hill I’d die defending, it makes me wonder if RB fed MB the same kind of story he gave to Monique - that he was working undercover for some kind of International agency - and then expanded that story to say their lives were in danger. It explains identity change and hurried relocation overseas. It also gives a ‘rational’ reason for them travelling separately.

It does sound bizarre, but there’s a Netflix series about a conman who did exactly this with multiple people. He told them he was with MI5 and that they were IRA targets and had to go on the run with him or they, and their families would be killed. Some were in hiding for 10 years for no reason.

Not bizarre at all, I think you are on to something here suggesting RB was creating a story about dangerous undercover work. This explains MB’s secrecy and lies. MB may have been told to change her name to protect RB, herself and family. I don’t believe for one second the MB did not want to see her family and friends ever again. If so, it would be much easier to just leave without any goodbyes, the farewell dinner, and why send postcards? IMO

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

I could be totally mistaken but I vaguely remember a business connected to one of Mr. AKA's names, that dealt with meat or meat imports etc. Does anyone have notes about this or am I just confused?

Not mistaken.. I found this under the name of WC… it was the expiry date that freaked me out… I dismissed the meat thing.. here’s the link

Gegevens van de geregistreerde entiteit | KBO Public Search

 

[CrossingToSafety]

I keep thinking about MB’s last phone call to SL and MB’s repeated hanging up and needing to get more coins for the phone that SL describes. If indeed MB was returning to Australia and was calling from the stopover airport (rather than England where she said she was ‘having tea with done little old ladies’), perhaps she actually kept hanging up whenever the PA system was announcing flight boardings to try and not give away the fact she was at an airport.

 

[MrsWattle]

Mr Aka was talking about importing container load of books to Australia or Europe. None of my research has led to much but here goes.
The Berkelouw family have an interesting bookshop history in Sydney, Rushcutters Bay possibly their home base and many of their bookshops in locations that Mr Aka has lived over the years.

There is also mention of FR in Luxembourg having a first wife with a bookshop there was that MC?

The Walker family "Cafe" could be a red herring, they seemed to be travelling quite a lot 70's.

Interesting. There is a Wouters import export international bv. business in Holland. Even though "Wouters" is a common name.

The Beef and import industry was taking off from Australia in 70's and by early 90's Queensland beef was exporting to Japan.

 

[ChrysStevenson]

Very interesting, especially considering RB was talking about meat at the inquest. About how people couldn’t eat UK meat due to mad cow disease concerns, and that he would bring meat from elsewhere.

It’s tempting to think RB and this MJR might be the same person. I haven’t checked any dates to see if it’s feasible.

But, I compared the writing on the landing/departure cards and although I was initially excited that both, unusually, dot their capital “i”’s, and there is some similarity between their 2’s, 4’s and other letters, Reid’s “y”’s and “h”’s are quite distinctive. I doubt this is something RB would be smart enough to fake.

Posing as a butcher doesn’t ring true to me either. RB would always want to be something more important sounding, I think.

 

[brjakj]

Not sure if this has been shared, but here is some more info for IK

 

[BonnieB]

Not mistaken.. I found this under the name of WC… it was the expiry date that freaked me out… I dismissed the meat thing.. here’s the link

Gegevens van de geregistreerde entiteit | KBO Public Search

The date of cessation seems like a coincidence to hide a possible container shipment of 'meat' overseas with a connection to WC doesn't it? Also the coincidence with MJR in the 70's. There's more to this IMO

 

[auntywithflowers]

I believe I heard in the inquest that the statement MC gave to the police stated that Mr aka had mentioned to her that he was in the Secret Service (please correct me if I’m wrong). This is a common ploy by con-artists. Could he have used this to frighten Marion?

Just my imagination going off down a rabbit hole...
Yes, and that would explain why MB was so secretive, changed her name, didnt want a lift to Airport, kept him secret, even when Sally saw them in the car, took separate flights etc. He may have convinced her that her life was in danger, if she had a relationship or was married to him. Secret Service, James Bond stuff. He gets mugged by Russian Agents, they are holding him hostage. They want money as well. They have all her documents as he had them on him when he went off to do a quick undercover job. The Russians are now angry and now after her. He tells her to get back to Australia, don't tell anyone your there, withdraw all your cash. I'll give you more instructions soon. He gets D wife, to buy a car, and give it to MB, so she can get around. MB doesn't know he arrived in Australia before her, she thinks he is a hostage. He follows her, watches her, and knows where she is staying. He contacts her to find out if she has all the money, saying the Russians handed him the phone, as they know where she is. She is absolutely convinced they are following her. Even the Bank is asking questions, so she tells bank teller she doesn't want to be found. He then tells her to take the money to a deserted place and a Russian/ Australian Agent will take it, and then he will be released. But,he walks in and takes it off of her. MB is shocked and angry. He kills her, as she knows too much and also threatens to go to police. He then gets rid of the car.

 

[MrsWattle]

At the inquest he also spoke about selling valuable Meiji antiques to his unknown Japanese connection probably at transit Narita hotel, Tokyo. I would guess that the vast antique markets in Lille would be a good source of very small valuable Ivory Meiji Netsuke worth a fortune!

 

[CrossingToSafety]

The use of MB’s Medicare card in late ‘97 is really strange to me and such a vital last clue to MB’s whereabouts in 1997.

What are the possibilities?

1. MB was in Aus and used it herself
2. Someone else uses the Medicare card… for the free bulk billing??!!
3. Someone else uses the Medicare card to leave a fake trail and create the illusion that MB is back in Australia. (But suggesting she’d be starting again so close to her old home where she’d likely bump into old acquaintances doesn’t seem like a great plan.)

 

[CrossingToSafety]

And another thought about the Medicare card. Perhaps MB required new glasses? Not just a checkup of the distinctive freckle on her eye.

I wonder if the optometrist visited was an actual eyewear sales outlet as well? Or if they only supplied the eyewear prescription? You would then need to visit OPSM or SpecSavers to have the eyewear script prepared whether it was for just updated lenses or new frames as well. That may be another lead to follow if records of the eyewear script and purchase were retained on client records at an eyewear supplier outlet.