Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #10

[centred]

You have two separate posts mixed up.
This post was about IK baby.....
Nothing to do with DdeH and their children...

Nah no mix up , just clarifying about ideas , although having kids and wives galore anything is possible IMO

 

[Meligator]

Oh. Well that's not good....

Curious if anyone knows when these cards are filled out. Is it before getting on the plane? During the flight? After exiting the plane and entering customs?

 

[Meligator]

I don’t have an answer I’m afraid but am certainly also obsessed with MB’s last known location!
If we run with the scenario that it was indeed MB that returned to Aus, that she herself was was withdrawing money to start her new life, and using her Medicare card in Grafton - then those last locations become so important.
Why Grafton to visit an optometrist? Presumably she had to call ahead to make an appointment - so how was it convenient? Was she staying nearby in a hotel? I don’t expect she was staying at the DH residence!
It’s been clarified that no records exist, and no memory of her visit to the optometrist can be recalled by staff. I can see an OPSM shop photo amongst B&W newspaper clippings within this article about the Grafton Shopping World 30 year anniversary at this link:
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/n...n/news-story/c548f1a4af3daa2908eb8b4f0d69ed61
If it was OPSM they provide both the checkup, script and glasses at one location, so that rules out her going to a second eyewear shop to fill the script.

I think the Ashmore bank in October, when she closed her account, would be latest report of anyone seeing her (although not as official as medical record in Grafton). In my mind, she was staying in Byron Bay and traveling from there to Grafton & Ashmore. Mostly b/c a lot of banking was done there & the salvo’s recommended starting a search there. That was also mentioned as a place where RB would have needed a car (which he got). Not sure why BB, although maybe because it’s touristy/transient and could go unnoticed.

 

[Roseberry]

Nah no mix up , just clarifying about ideas , although having kids and wives galore anything is possible IMO

It sounds a bit like D might have been well and truly over gadding about RB s stomping ground firstly pregnant and then little babies , i suggest she may have suggested going back to Australia again and this time compromised on a stable place in England for awhile for the children etc .

he as usual spends enormous amounts of time away from the home ' fires still leading the double life and bringing home the bacon .

Why Burwash ? is like asking why Ballina ?

Anyway after awhile she has had enough , came home and apparently never went with him again.

The compromise .....He kept up with gadding about until he was stopped .

Agree.

It does seem more and more though, that there are very few coincidences or random happenings going on - every little thing seems to have some ulterior motive or purpose behind it.
And, just in my IMO, a common theme with all the women we've seen, DdeH included, is that there's zero agency - they go where they're told to go, and do as they're told.

I can think of only one woman who might be an exception to that.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

Tks @mishy66 I Saw this when it was first discussed and never really felt comfortable that we had all the info. Someone had to be travelling with the baby but short of going through every passenger card I don’t know how to find who else was on that flight.

What young mother would send their firstborn infant ahead on a separate flight with someone else? Unless it was the grandmother? Or it wasn’t their baby? or they were trying to protect it? Or??

I am praying that the investigation team has questioned all and every child-- including RB's son from first (or second?) marriage. Children do not always know all the family secrets, but sometimes as they age, mothers or family tell them things. ie IK's child, R B's European son. . .

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

Curious if anyone knows when these cards are filled out. Is it before getting on the plane? During the flight? After exiting the plane and entering customs?

In the olden days when I was young, they were filled out before landing. Right after your last onboard snack or meal.

 

[Roseberry]

With the call that was made to Crimestoppers - re body at Armidale and the Nymboida-Armidale Rd connection I think made by @BonnieB. Do we have any idea of exactly what was said and how it was said? Did they play it? Is there a transcript? I'm dying to hear it. I know they traced it to an elderly couple. Google maps Armidale Road at Grafton there's lots of things like car wreckers and cemeteries and a landfill. How long's that been there? I'm just thinking of the way things could have been said on the phone 'at Armidale' or 'out at Armidale' or 'up Armidale way' and someone who worked there was maybe told to look the other way and got the guilts later. It's close to where she was, but probably a bit too handy. I prefer @BonnieB's and Nymbodia because of the inquest questioning. Apologies if you've already been here.

And still on my boat theme! - has anyone looked into RB Aus boat ownership? I expect you already have and that question was asked around the Europe questioning, but just a thought.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

I can think of only one woman who might be an exception to that.

I can think of two. Including Mme Flamm's daughter who chased RB down and got her mother's coins back. Was reminded of that listening to most recent TLV inquest episode.

 

[ruby925]

In the olden days when I was young, they were filled out before landing. Right after your last onboard snack or meal.

Yes, historically, landing cards were handed out in flight to be given to immigration with passport. I thought immigration, when checking you on arrival, gave you a departure card to pre-fill if you needed one, but I am not sure of this..hopefully someone else has more definite info.

 

[Meligator]

Yes, historically, landing cards were handed out in flight to be given to immigration with passport. I thought immigration, when checking you on arrival, gave you a departure card to pre-fill if you needed one, but I am not sure of this..hopefully someone else has more definite info.

Just trying to imagine the scenario where someone accidentally writes completely wrong date/flight on IK daughter card (if it is in fact a mistake) & not the real time she traveled. The signature does look like IK’s, so if filled out while on the plane or after exiting, we should assume IK was with baby and not back in AU.

 

[Meligator]

With the call that was made to Crimestoppers - re body at Armidale and the Nymboida-Armidale Rd connection I think made by @BonnieB. Do we have any idea of exactly what was said and how it was said? Did they play it? Is there a transcript? I'm dying to hear it. I know they traced it to an elderly couple. Google maps Armidale Road at Grafton there's lots of things like car wreckers and cemeteries and a landfill. How long's that been there? I'm just thinking of the way things could have been said on the phone 'at Armidale' or 'out at Armidale' or 'up Armidale way' and someone who worked there was maybe told to look the other way and got the guilts later. It's close to where she was, but probably a bit too handy. I prefer @BonnieB's and Nymbodia because of the inquest questioning. Apologies if you've already been here.

And still on my boat theme! - has anyone looked into RB Aus boat ownership? I expect you already have and that question was asked around the Europe questioning, but just a thought.

Not sure re transcript, but I believe police did go to a residence associated with the call (not sure if caller gave address or if number was traced), and the resident had no knowledge of anything.

 

[ruby925]

Just trying to imagine the scenario where someone accidentally writes completely wrong date/flight on IK daughter card (if it is in fact a mistake) & not the real time she traveled. The signature does look like IK’s, so if filled out while on the plane or after exiting, we should assume IK was with baby and not back in AU.

Weren't these the departure cards? If so, may explain why IK wrote out a card for baby, signing it herself, baby travelled with a.n.other person, then IK filled out her own card on departure. IK may have used her own original departure card for baby, or requested a new one as two required?

 

[BonnieB]

With the call that was made to Crimestoppers - re body at Armidale and the Nymboida-Armidale Rd connection I think made by @BonnieB. Do we have any idea of exactly what was said and how it was said? Did they play it? Is there a transcript? I'm dying to hear it. I know they traced it to an elderly couple. Google maps Armidale Road at Grafton there's lots of things like car wreckers and cemeteries and a landfill. How long's that been there? I'm just thinking of the way things could have been said on the phone 'at Armidale' or 'out at Armidale' or 'up Armidale way' and someone who worked there was maybe told to look the other way and got the guilts later. It's close to where she was, but probably a bit too handy. I prefer @BonnieB's and Nymbodia because of the inquest questioning. Apologies if you've already been here.

And still on my boat theme! - has anyone looked into RB Aus boat ownership? I expect you already have and that question was asked around the Europe questioning, but just a thought.

Yes, I'd like to know how that tip was worded but I'm guessing if they investigated a particular paddock in Armidale it was pretty specific. I can't imagine the tip coming from RB with his distinctive accent and I don't believe he had an accomplice.

 

[mishy66]

Nah no mix up , just clarifying about ideas , although having kids and wives galore anything is possible IMO

Yeah I get what you were meaning now.
I wasnt on the page with what you were all suggesting. It went over my head at the time. But there could be something in that, who knows.

 

[mishy66]

Agree.

It does seem more and more though, that there are very few coincidences or random happenings going on - every little thing seems to have some ulterior motive or purpose behind it.
And, just in my IMO, a common theme with all the women we've seen, DdeH included, is that there's zero agency - they go where they're told to go, and do as they're told.

I can think of only one woman who might be an exception to that.

I'm on your wavelength now!
I was looking at all the baby trips as separate details but now see where you are all heading.
Very plausible!

 

[mishy66]

Weren't these the departure cards? If so, may explain why IK wrote out a card for baby, signing it herself, baby travelled with a.n.other person, then IK filled out her own card on departure. IK may have used her own original departure card for baby, or requested a new one as two required?

Yes that is my thoughts with it.
I am thinking she went with the person and her baby to airport, someone filled out card, she signed it, they flew off.
2 days later IK leaves and her passenger card is filled out by her, except the flight deets, which I think were filled out by staff because IK didnt know them / forgot to do it IMO

 

[mishy66]

Just trying to imagine the scenario where someone accidentally writes completely wrong date/flight on IK daughter card (if it is in fact a mistake) & not the real time she traveled. The signature does look like IK’s, so if filled out while on the plane or after exiting, we should assume IK was with baby and not back in AU.

These are departure cards. I assume they were filled out prior to boarding which is why IK has signed the babys card.

 

[mishy66]

IK left 10 May 1970 and the baby E - born 18 January 1970 ( as per my previous theory some time back) left 2 days prior to Ilona on the 8 May 1970

IK signature on both are the same.

So she went to the airport with another person and her baby, filled out the passenger card for EJ and then someone travelled with the baby back to Belgium.

Personally I think IK sent her baby off home to get her away from IK IF SHE potentially had something she was carrying and was caught up with authorities. It seems more plausible to me she was protecting her baby and knowing if she got caught the baby would be safe at home.
Someone here in Australia was helping them and both he and IK were here for "work".
MOO IMO

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Yes wasn't it an elderly or older couple who lived at the address.


Oops I saw the post by Roseberry after I'd posted.

But won't hurt to have another post confirming so I'll leave this here.

Not sure re transcript, but I believe police did go to a residence associated with the call (not sure if caller gave address or if number was traced), and the resident had no knowledge of anything.

 

[Zanzibar]

Just trying to imagine the scenario where someone accidentally writes completely wrong date/flight on IK daughter card (if it is in fact a mistake) & not the real time she traveled. The signature does look like IK’s, so if filled out while on the plane or after exiting, we should assume IK was with baby and not back in AU.

Except she has a passenger card exiting several days later from Australia.