Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #10

[ruby925]

A stenographer was just a shorthand-typist. We worked in all kinds of businesses. A boss (male, of course) would holler. You’d rush in with your spirax notebook and fountain pen. He’d manspread while waxing lyrical at 120 words per minute - probably dictating three or four letters at a time. You’d sit on the other side of the table, scribbling frantically, thinking, “I hope I’m going to be able to read this back!”

Then you’d go out to your typewriter, produce the letters with carbon copies, and bring them back for him to sign.

ah, in UK a stenographer was completely different, they used a very small mechanical machine with 'shorthand' keys, with a small roll of paper to take the details in court verbatim, then transcribe them later. . it was a specialized job.

 

[Carovb5]

Perhaps he took that photograph of her. In any case, the dH seems to first appear in Belgium 1968 when Renov Pubs was registered. Is there a working hypothesis for the name Renov? All I'm coming up with atm is Novotny maiden name of IK mother. Surname sp of Nicole R? Another company C & L constructs - LeRoy? There's always some connection IMO.

It appears to be a surname. Not too common, but mostly in Russia & Israël. Israel to me sounds like a possible link to the jewish name Chaim he used? There seem to be Renov’s in France too…

Maybe a link to someone?
https://forebears.io/surnames/renov

 

[MrsWattle]

Session expired | RecordSearch | National Archives of Australia
page 2457

My question about Walker family 1970 One year UK visit and 1971 Chusan voyage.
Where was was their other daughter? and who looked after the Cafe?

 

[Roseberry]

It appears to be a surname. Not too common, but mostly in Russia & Israël. Israel to me sounds like a possible link to the jewish name Chaim he used? There seem to be Renov’s in France too…

Maybe a link to someone?
https://forebears.io/surnames/renov

Could be a surname (whose?). Could be a conglomeration of surnames (whose?) could be an abbreviation (Renov - renovation). Renovation publishing? What sort of publications are 'renovated'?

 

[Carovb5]

Could be a surname (whose?). Could be a conglomeration of surnames (whose?) could be an abbreviation (Renov - renovation). Renovation publishing? What sort of publications are 'renovated'?

You’re right. Let’s keep searching.
Surname of this woman living close (Ixelles) to him?
https://www.dekamer.be/digidoc/OCR/K3146/K31460018/K31460018.PDF

Edit: nevermind, she is Claire Hedervary (it’s her birthname), and others appearantly have ruled her connection out.

 

[Zanzibar]

Thanks Mishy. I see DW was a stenographer. Does that mean she worked in the Courts service in Australia back in 1970 or does it mean something else?

Probably been mentioned before but I wonder what business in Europe they were hoping to undertake for a period of 18 months?

I’m a Stenographer by trade, and although some end up specializing as a court reporter many don’t. Stenographer means you take shorthand as well as type.

 

[mishy66]

Thanks Mishy. I see DW was a stenographer. Does that mean she worked in the Courts service in Australia back in 1970 or does it mean something else?

Probably been mentioned before but I wonder what business in Europe they were hoping to undertake for a period of 18 months?

All great questions but I dont know either.
I presumed she worked for her family business ? Her father is a Company Director and mother a secretary mentioned on their cards too, so what business do they have.
That is something worth knowing.

My line of thought is that WDW met the father through some business dealings (coins......) before the two parties left Aust, and that is why the W family offered WDW to stay with them for 6 weeks when they all came back on the Chusan.
It was a 3 mth trip sure. But why would a "respectable" weathly family offer a complete stranger an offer to stay with them.
And when he boarded the ship, did he not have a place to stay / going to in Aust? Or was he just hoping that someone on the ship would offer a place for him to stay ?????
Seems a very odd thing to do when coming to a country you only had visited briefly prior....

 

[mishy66]

My question about Walker family 1970 One year UK visit and 1971 Chusan voyage.
Where was was their other daughter? and who looked after the Cafe?

I agree. I have looked through all the W's in the NAA and unless the sister is older / married / living somewhere else, I don't know where she may have been. Maybe counting all the 'coins'

I know there has been lots of mention about this cafe, but was there a definite link to the W family owning a cafe???
Just wondering how this came about initially.

 

[Carovb5]

How strange, the mother in law of Claire Hedervary/Klara Hedervary (Belgium) is also named Luxemburg… strange, being in and from Hongary.

You’re right. Let’s keep searching.
Surname of this woman living close (Ixelles) to him?
https://www.dekamer.be/digidoc/OCR/K3146/K31460018/K31460018.PDF

Edit: nevermind, she is Claire Hedervary (it’s her birthname), and others appearantly have ruled her connection out.

 

[Roseberry]

How strange, the mother in law of Claire Hedervary/Klara Hedervary (Belgium) is also named Luxemburg… strange, being in and from Hongary.

Well, how strange

 

[Roseberry]

All great questions but I dont know either.
I presumed she worked for her family business ? Her father is a Company Director and mother a secretary mentioned on their cards too, so what business do they have.
That is something worth knowing.

My line of thought is that WDW met the father through some business dealings (coins......) before the two parties left Aust, and that is why the W family offered WDW to stay with them for 6 weeks when they all came back on the Chusan.
It was a 3 mth trip sure. But why would a "respectable" weathly family offer a complete stranger an offer to stay with them.
And when he boarded the ship, did he not have a place to stay / going to in Aust? Or was he just hoping that someone on the ship would offer a place for him to stay ?????
Seems a very odd thing to do when coming to a country you only had visited briefly prior....

Dad's business (and interests) might be quite important, as you say. Company Director is quite...broad.

 

[Liselle]

I agree. I have looked through all the W's in the NAA and unless the sister is older / married / living somewhere else, I don't know where she may have been. Maybe counting all the 'coins'

I know there has been lots of mention about this cafe, but was there a definite link to the W family owning a cafe???
Just wondering how this came about initially.

@mishy66 Early on in the recording/video of Day 8 of the Inquest, RB states that he worked in the café belonging to his "in-laws" and this is how he knew the owner of Le Courier Australien, which was "somewhere near the Wynward Rail Station", who came to the café most days.

 

[mishy66]

@mishy66 Early on in the recording/video of Day 8 of the Inquest, RB states that he worked in the café belonging to his "in-laws" and this is how he knew the owner of Le Courier Australien, which was "somewhere near the Wynward Rail Station", who came to the café most days.

Thanks @Liselle
I have it in my notes but I guess I just don't believe anything he says until proven otherwise.

He is working as a waiter? kitchenhand? in a cafe? when he sets up a 'business' the year prior in 1969 for 'publications/publishing company' and then moves to Aust to work in a cafe where the owners of said cafe state they are "company director, secretary, stenographer' on their passenger cards in 1970

And he happens upon a person having a cuppa at the W cafe, who is working at Le Courier Aust, a company that suits his needs...? Handy.

That cafe must have been a pretty well patronised establishment for the family to own so much property around an exclusive part of Sydney. IMO

I personally think that the W family had the connection to Le Courier Aust and that the father met WDW through some business dealings. IMO

 

[MrsWattle]

Thanks @Liselle
I have it in my notes but I guess I just don't believe anything he says until proven otherwise.

He is working as a waiter? kitchenhand? in a cafe? when he sets up a 'business' the year prior in 1969 for 'publications/publishing company' and then moves to Aust to work in a cafe where the owners of said cafe state they are "company director, secretary, stenographer' on their passenger cards in 1970

And he happens upon a person having a cuppa at the W cafe, who is working at Le Courier Aust, a company that suits his needs...? Handy.

That cafe must have been a pretty well patronised establishment for the family to own so much property around an exclusive part of Sydney. IMO

I personally think that the W family had the connection to Le Courier Aust and that the father met WDW through some business dealings. IMO

I wonder if Mr Aka was genuinely working as a AAP? Press Photographer? Perhaps he also took pics for Le Courrier Australien? what alias he used as a photographer?

 

[Estelle]

I’m a Stenographer by trade, and although some end up specializing as a court reporter many don’t. Stenographer means you take shorthand as well as type.

I used to teach Stenographers - both in Australia at private colleges and in London in the 60s and 70s. I taught both Pitman and Gregg shorthand at TAFE in the 70s. DdH probably left school after her HSC at 16yo so at 19yo when she went overseas, she would have only had about two to three years' experience. She would not have been a court reporter. She would have been a Secretary taking down shorthand and typing it back.

 

[Laughing]

But wasn’t her occupation listed as a seamstress or sewing machinist type work? How would she do this with no legs? Sewing machines back then (before electric) had a pedal that you sort of pushed up and down to get the machine to work. Unless she did everything by hand, but that wouldn’t have been very productive.

Late to the party, not sure where this fits in the timeline, either. The lady may have specialized in embroidery or high-end sewing. Lots & lots of handwork there. Tailoring, applying lace, bound buttonholes, fitting -- generally hand sewing.

Plus, I have my grandmother's sewing machine. This was originally a treadle machine as you describe but a small electric motor was added in the 1930's according to my Mom.

I still use this Singer, it makes better buttonholes than my modern sewing machine!

Love, love, love all the great information you all are finding!!!

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

I'm guessing we don't know this yet but was Mr aka outside of Australia in May/June 1995 two years before Marion's disappearance?

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

For a rather random link.....https://www.theaustralian.com.au/ne...n/news-story/527dcefad0823a9a449d215b15d20196

The walkers travelled to Southampton on the MS Shota Rustaveli, when I searched this popped up, none other than some KGB agents on board!

Do you have to subscribe to see the article?

 

[BonnieB]

You would imagine a company director who owns Sydney properties, a cafe/coffee lounge and can afford an 18mth business trip to Europe with his family, would be easy to find, but not so. One Ancestry tree has RGW in the RANavy and there is a Trove article (1945) mentioning a Miss ML of Northern Suburbs volunteering as an aid on HMS Formidable to assist with the evacuation of Australian prisoners of war from Singapore which may be relevant as they married in 1947. There's more to this me thinks!

 

[BonnieB]

I'm guessing we don't know this yet but was Mr aka outside of Australia in May/June 1995 two years before Marion's disappearance?

From memory, I think that was the year he made 4 trips out of Australia. Not sure of dates. AC mentions it when asking about his cheap JL fares.