Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #12

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Wow BC certainly made some dollars at his auctions in Ballina

https://www.northernstar.com.au/news/ballina-stamp-coin-auction/575346/

 

[BonnieB]

Barry Cooper mentioned by JO and the address of office asked about by AC.
Accountants name as new owner of Ballina Coin/Clarendon hill.
Looks like Barry Cooper was a gambler according to the forum comments of people who know him . Hope Barry throws RB under a Bus today by calling and making a statement actually!

[/QUOTE]

I'm sure Mr. C. has been interviewed by police.
Although RB likes to focus on his coin "hobby", I think he has had an interest in valuable books and stamps dating back to 1977 when he obtained both by fraudulent means in Belgium .
"three books valued at 200,000 Francs and a stamp collection valued at 450,000 fr. "
So it's no surprise he became a daily visitor to Mr. C's second hand book and stamp shop in Ballina.
I somehow doubt Mr. C. will have much to say about RB.

 

[MrsWattle]

Double

 

[MrsWattle]

DeHedervary is a Hungarian name and theY lived in VERY wealthy suburbs of Sydney where they were on the electoral rolls. I'm wondering if Ilona Kinzcel or her hubby RB were known in the tight knit Hungarian groups in Sydney. I know they have Facebook groups and regular social events. Hungarian consulate in Sydney and the Schnitzel house in Double Bay.
H.S.C. - Hungarian (Magyar) Social Club Ltd

 

[KiwiNZ]

Cant get my head around this -

Travelling as Freddy David, introduces himself as Willy Wouters - but she nicknames him Rick ?

She stays with his family in the 80's - 2 brothers / cousins (one around the same age and a younger according to DDH) , Desire and Freddy

If she is been truthful about the brothers, he must be Willy (?) surely his family addressed him by his real name. IMO at some stage she knew he travelled on his brother passport / name and she originally knew him as FD.

But if she enquired about having brothers with the same name (FD) then cousins would have been a way to explain that

 

[KiwiNZ]

I especially took notice of RB description of his safe at the inquest, he said 3 X 4 inches and then looked from side to side as though he got away with it!. No further questions asked! I imagined it would have been the largest safe from a hardware store with lock keys and combination to hide his fake documents, multiple passports, stolen items, coin collection and probably Marion's stolen purse?

Ohhhh funny you should mention Barry Cooper, book, coin and other dealer?
Scroll down and read GlenStephens memory of Barry Cooper in the good ol' days in Bondi, probs when RB was there?. It's a small world in Sydney's Eastern suburbs amongst the Jewish community, it is a close knit European immigrant world where they all know each other, did business a bit a back scratching and helping each other out. I don't know Barry Cooper's coin and book collectables past but it could be a perfect money laundering opportunity, coins, stamps, gold, jewelry, books, antiques.
Barry Cooper's Stamps & Coins - Postage Stamp Chat Board & Stamp Forum

Interesting Stuff Mrs Wattle - thanks for sharing

 

[centred]

Barry Cooper president 1986 to 1988
About APTA

Interesting there is a R.C Walker in 1948
The Victorian section of the Australian Stamp Dealers' Association are pictured at a dinner held prior to the monthly meeting. The photograph was taken in late 1948, just a few months after the Association was established. Pictured in the group are standing (left to right) - J. Lewis (R. W. Turk); R. W Turk; G. F. Reese (Orlo-Smith - Co); C. Dunbar (Myer Philatelic Dept.); J.L. Phillips (Wallace Stamp Co.); H. Wheeler; F. H. Feibes; R. C. Walker; P.J. Downie (Myer Philatelic Dept.); A. Cumming (C.J. McDonald); seated (left to right) - R. W. Wilson (Stamps and Coins) - F.A Thornhill snr; H. B.R. Meyer (Orlo-Smith - Co); A.A. Rasmussen (Australian Stamp Auctions); William Ackland and Frank Thornhill jnr. (Australian Stamp Auctions).

And a P.Walker as a past president in 1993-95 Paul Walker (Vic)

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Interesting there is a R.C Walker in 1948
The Victorian section of the Australian Stamp Dealers' Association are pictured at a dinner held prior to the monthly meeting. The photograph was taken in late 1948, just a few months after the Association was established. Pictured in the group are standing (left to right) - J. Lewis (R. W. Turk); R. W Turk; G. F. Reese (Orlo-Smith - Co); C. Dunbar (Myer Philatelic Dept.); J.L. Phillips (Wallace Stamp Co.); H. Wheeler; F. H. Feibes; R. C. Walker; P.J. Downie (Myer Philatelic Dept.); A. Cumming (C.J. McDonald); seated (left to right) - R. W. Wilson (Stamps and Coins) - F.A Thornhill snr; H. B.R. Meyer (Orlo-Smith - Co); A.A. Rasmussen (Australian Stamp Auctions); William Ackland and Frank Thornhill jnr. (Australian Stamp Auctions).

And a P.Walker as a past president in 1993-95 Paul Walker (Vic)

RC Walker Stamp dealers in Melbourne?

Stamp Australia R.C Walker stamp dealers Melbourne stiffener found in early FDCs | eBay

Ronald Curwan Walker a stamp dealer at the eastern markets in Melbourne. Also sold coins.

https://www.navic.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Nav96.pdf
Page 48

 

[MrsWattle]

Yes !!!! BonnieB !! I agree
I'm sure Mr. C. has been interviewed by police.
Although RB likes to focus on his coin "hobby", I think he has had an interest in valuable books and stamps dating back to 1977 when he obtained both by fraudulent means in Belgium .
"three books valued at 200,000 Francs and a stamp collection valued at 450,000 fr. "
So it's no surprise he became a daily visitor to Mr. C's second hand book and stamp shop in Ballina.
I somehow doubt Mr. C. will have much to say about RB.[/QUOTE]

IMO
I think RB has a keen interest in deceased estates, valuables, coins, books, Meiji antiques, Lille has the biggest antiques market. and ofcourse BC was into race horses, some say he lost a fortune gambling. Birds of a feather no doubt.

 

[Carovb5]

Cant get my head around this -

Travelling as Freddy David, introduces himself as Willy Wouters - but she nicknames him Rick ?

She stays with his family in the 80's - 2 brothers / cousins (one around the same age and a younger according to DDH) , Desire and Freddy

If she is been truthful about the brothers, he must be Willy (?) surely his family addressed him by his real name. IMO at some stage she knew he travelled on his brother passport / name and she originally knew him as FD.

Freddy & Rick are both short possibilities for Frederick. So his birthname is possibly Frederick? He calls himself Freddy, she chooses to call him rick? (Wether it’s His brother/nephews/own name)
I’m well aware this use of short names for longer official names has been contradicted by another user, but, living in Belgium, i know a lot of older people with a longer official name, called a short version of that.

(Edited a double paste here)
Freddy (also Freddi and Freddie) is a diminutive used by both men and women whose names contain the Germanic element -fred, notable examples of such being Frederick, Frederica, and Alfred.

Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia › wiki
Freddy (given name) - Wikipedia

Rick is a masculine given name, often a short form (hypocorism) of Richard, Derek, Frederick or Patrick.

Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia › wiki
Rick - Wikipedia

 

[KiwiNZ]

Freddy & Rick are both short possibilities for Frederick. So his birthname is possibly Frederick? He calls himself Freddy, she chooses to call him rick? (Wether it’s His brother/nephews/own name)
I’m well aware this use of short names for longer official names has been contradicted by another user, but, living in Belgium, i know a lot of older people with a longer official name, called a short version of that.

Freddy (also Freddi and Freddie) is a diminutive used by both men and women whose names contain the Germanic element -fred,
Freddy (also Freddi and Freddie) is a diminutive used by both men and women whose names contain the Germanic element -fred, notable examples of such being Frederick, Frederica, and Alfred.
View attachment 339480
Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia › wiki
Freddy (given name) - Wikipedia

Rick is a masculine given name, often a short form (hypocorism) of Richard, Derek, Frederick or Patrick.
View attachment 339481
Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia › wiki
Rick - Wikipedia

I think she original knew him as Freddy / Fredrick David ( rick was the nick name as she claims from day 1)- how do you explain there is already a Freddy in the family when you met them ? - he's my cousin not my brother (?) just thinking out loud lol

Or he admitted to her he used FD's passport / name and she is now covering for him

 

[Carovb5]

I think she original knew him as Freddy / Fredrick David ( rick was the nick name as she claims from day 1)- how do you explain there is already a Freddy in the family when you met them ? - he's my cousin not my brother (?) just thinking out loud lol

Or he admitted to her he used FD's passport / name and she is now covering for him

I have 2 nephews with the same first name… back in the days that happened more often, they were often called after an ancestor. Maybe that’s an option here too? Maybe one was called Rick & one was called Freddy, to keep them apart? And he used both? Just thinking out loud here.

 

[BonnieB]

I especially took notice of RB description of his safe at the inquest, he said 3 X 4 inches and then looked from side to side as though he got away with it!. No further questions asked! I imagined it would have been the largest safe from a hardware store with lock keys and combination to hide his fake documents, multiple passports, stolen items, coin collection and probably Marion's stolen purse?

I thought that was hilarious! Not much bigger than a ciggy packet - as if? I'd love to have seen inside his filing cabinet though...
C
Coins, Coppenolle, Cornelius, Chaim DeH, Chaim David, Casinos....
D
Dupont, David, Dehedervaru, Driver's Licences, Dent, Documents (fake)...

 

[KiwiNZ]

I have 2 nephews with the same first name… back in the days that happened more often, they were often called after an ancestor. Maybe that’s an option here too? Maybe one was called Rick & one was called Freddy, to keep them apart? And he used both? Just thinking out loud here.

Yes my husbands family as well, 2 sisters called their children the same name lol

But I guess if we think they are brothers then we are missing a Willy ( if we believe the family tree )

If cousins then yes could be called the same name.

I am back to thinking he is Willy D and they are his birth family .... I have done a full circle lol

 

[ruby925]

Cant get my head around this -

Travelling as Freddy David, introduces himself as Willy Wouters - but she nicknames him Rick ?

She stays with his family in the 80's - 2 brothers / cousins (one around the same age and a younger according to DDH) , Desire and Freddy

If she is been truthful about the brothers, he must be Willy (?) surely his family addressed him by his real name. IMO at some stage she knew he travelled on his brother passport / name and she originally knew him as FD.

But if she enquired about having brothers with the same name (FD) then cousins would have been a way to explain that

I think WW will have introduced himself as Fredy (Frederick)as per the passport he was using, DDH called him Ric as Fredy was a very old fashioned name in the 1970s (in UK anyway) and he had to come clean as WW once he was imprisoned. DDH probably continued to keep calling him Ric as (again in UK and poss Aus) Willi not a 'popular' name. Different in mainland Europe I know.

 

[BonnieB]

Yes my husbands family as well, 2 sisters called their children the same name lol

But I guess if we think they are brothers then we are missing a Willy ( if we believe the family tree )

If cousins then yes could be called the same name.

I am back to thinking he is Willy and they are his birth family .... I have done a full circle lol

I refer to my previous post...
The way I see it, it's simple.
DW met WW travelling as FD on a cruise ship, she knew him only as FD hence the "Rick" name.
IMO, the first she heard of the WW name was when he wrote to her from prison in France. He obviously had to explain why he was using his brother/cousin's passport.
WW returned to Australia in 1974 (on an unknown stolen or falsified passport)
He quickly resumed the FD alias again until he could falsify his citizenship paperwork and become FDeH.
The reason DdH lied, saying she met him as WW is obvious; to cover up the fact that he sailed and entered Australia on the illegal FD passport which carries a 10 year jail sentence.
I believe RB also testified that his family continued to call him "Willy"

 

[Carovb5]

One last option/name i forgot to mention: the name Wilfred/Wilfried. It gets both Will/Willy & Fred/Freddy as short version. (But no Rick).

 

[MrsWattle]

I just cant imagine RB working a day in his life even before his disabled pension

BC and his wife EC lived at Bondi according to the 1980 electoral roll listed as stamp dealers.
According to a collector their Bondi shop was
"never a dull moment in the shop in those heady days of the late seventies… coffee, cigars and wine after 4pm… sometimes earlier. Exchanges of information and plenty of good yarns!".
Stamps Australia - history

 

[MrsWattle]

I thought that was hilarious! Not much bigger than a ciggy packet - as if? I'd love to have seen inside his filing cabinet though...
C
Coins, Coppenolle, Cornelius, Chaim DeH, Chaim David, Casinos....
D
Dupont, David, Dehedervaru, Driver's Licences, Dent, Documents (fake)...

I think filing cabinets were his personal secretaries job ?

 

[MrsWattle]

One last option/name i forgot to mention: the name Wilfred/Wilfried. It gets both Will/Willy & Fred/Freddy as short version. (But no Rick).

Thankyou for your name information and abbreviations. I found a 1980 naturalization card for a Fredy David travelling to NY USA born 18th May 1936. I'm wondering if Fredy David is popular name?