Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #12

[mishy66]

I especially took notice of RB description of his safe at the inquest, he said 3 X 4 inches and then looked from side to side as though he got away with it!. No further questions asked! I imagined it would have been the largest safe from a hardware store with lock keys and combination to hide his fake documents, multiple passports, stolen items, coin collection and probably Marion's stolen purse?

Ohhhh funny you should mention Barry Cooper, book, coin and other dealer?
Scroll down and read GlenStephens memory of Barry Cooper in the good ol' days in Bondi, probs when RB was there?. It's a small world in Sydney's Eastern suburbs amongst the Jewish community, it is a close knit European immigrant world where they all know each other, did business a bit a back scratching and helping each other out. I don't know Barry Cooper's coin and book collectables past but it could be a perfect money laundering opportunity, coins, stamps, gold, jewelry, books, antiques.
Barry Cooper's Stamps & Coins - Postage Stamp Chat Board & Stamp Forum

Fascinating @MrsWattle !

 

[mishy66]

The way I see it, it's simple.
She met FD on a cruise ship, she knew him only as FD hence the "Rick" name.
IMO, the first she heard of WW was when he wrote to her from prison in France.
He returned to Australia in 1974 (on an unknown stolen or falsified passport)
He quickly assumed the FD alias again until he could falsify his citizenship paperwork and become FDeH.
The reason DdH lied about knowing him as WW is obvious; to cover up the fact that he sailed and entered Australia on the illegal FD passport.

I can not imagine him for a minute sitting down writing to her in prison when he has shown he has never had any interest whatsoever in people closest to him. IMO
At the inquest she says she met him on the ship as WW and knew him to be so - even though she called him Ric - that makes no sense.
I'm still thinking she knew him long before the "ship meet" as WW and their association came with her family. Something I said long ago and still believe this. IMO
This is why she says she always called him ric, because she knew he was already using the name FD overseas in 1970/71
IMO.

 

[BonnieB]

I just cant imagine RB working a day in his life even before his disabled pension

BC and his wife EC lived at Bondi according to the 1980 electoral roll listed as stamp dealers.
According to a collector their Bondi shop was
"never a dull moment in the shop in those heady days of the late seventies… coffee, cigars and wine after 4pm… sometimes earlier. Exchanges of information and plenty of good yarns!".
Stamps Australia - history

The 1977 Electoral Roll shows the DeH's were living at 1/303 Old South West Road, Bondi. He is listed as an artist and Diane as a secretary.
Can anyone suggest what kind of 'artist' he may have been? Lol.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

I thought that was hilarious! Not much bigger than a ciggy packet - as if? I'd love to have seen inside his filing cabinet though...
C
Coins, Coppenolle, Cornelius, Chaim DeH, Chaim David, Casinos....
D
Dupont, David, Dehedervaru, Driver's Licences, Dent, Documents (fake)...

B - bullshite lol

 

[MrsWattle]

I'm finding lots of "Fred David" and one Fredy David in New York. Example 1957 school photo.
Some cards mention Amsterdam, Germany. And a Fred David solder died 1940. Divorces, lots of marriages! probates, and addresses. There was a famous UN lady with surname DeH who liked NY too. Perhaps someone with ancestry subscription for USA would have more access to information. Just another option because his life is such a mystery really. It's possible he stole the ID anyway my brain hurts.

 

[Carovb5]

Thankyou for your name information and abbreviations. I found a 1980 naturalization card for a Fredy David travelling to NY USA born 18th May 1936. I'm wondering if Fredy David is popular name?

More info about people with the surname “David” around the world (common name)
https://forebears.io/nl/surnames/david (It’s info about 2022, not 1936…)

and the name “Fredy” https://forebears.io/x/nl/forenames/fredy
(Again 2022, not 1936)

i have no clue about this name in 1936 unfortunately…

 

[mishy66]

I'm finding lots of "Fred David" and one Fredy David in New York. Example 1957 school photo.
Some cards mention Amsterdam, Germany. And a Fred David solder died 1940. Divorces, lots of marriages! probates, and addresses. There was a famous UN lady with surname DeH who liked NY too. Perhaps someone with ancestry subscription for USA would have more access to information. Just another option because his life is such a mystery really. It's possible he stole the ID anyway my brain hurts.

I have searched and searched @MrsWattle.
FDW birthdate states 1942
Wonks at inquest says, 'a brother died before AW..... about 30 or so years ago' so given the other 'brother' DDW is an alias wonks has never used, it stands to reason he is still alive * ( I think we all know this to be the case), so that leaves FDW. And apart from the paper writeup I posted a while back that a FD died in accident, and looks to be dismissed by sleuths, I can not find anything else on that.
There are three indications that FDW is indeed deceased.
1. The Gentrees that show he is
2. IF you believe wonks
3. The newspaper clipping ( which was longer that "30 odd yrs ago" but that is wonkas wording)

 

[BonnieB]

I can not imagine him for a minute sitting down writing to her in prison when he has shown he has never had any interest whatsoever in people closest to him. IMO
At the inquest she says she met him on the ship as WW and knew him to be so - even though she called him Ric - that makes no sense.
I'm still thinking she knew him long before the "ship meet" as WW and their association came with her family. Something I said long ago and still believe this. IMO
This is why she says she always called him ric, because she knew he was already using the name FD overseas in 1970/71
IMO.

I'm open to all ideas but the cruise part just doesn't fit with WW for me.

I suspect he originally booked that (expensive) cruise as FD with the intention of scamming someone else on board
OR
He previously met the Walkers in the UK and recognized an absolute bonanza for a narcissistic fraudster.
A naive potential wife with rich parents and an open doorway between Europe and the safe haven of Australia.
Either way, IMO, he was FD when the Walkers first met him and when he flew back home.
And of course he would write to DW from prison - he'd invested too much time, money and effort to let go now. DW was living separate from her parents, I doubt that they knew about his 'French problem' as DdH described it, until much later. And that might explain their rather low-key marriage. IMOO

 

[mishy66]

RC Walker Stamp dealers in Melbourne?

Stamp Australia R.C Walker stamp dealers Melbourne stiffener found in early FDCs | eBay

Ronald Curwan Walker a stamp dealer at the eastern markets in Melbourne. Also sold coins.

https://www.navic.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Nav96.pdf
Page 48

YES more like a 'coin cafe' !
Nice work Eyespy

and IK Mr Blooom?..... "she ran off with someone from Melbourne"

 

[mishy66]

RC Walker Stamp dealers in Melbourne?

Stamp Australia R.C Walker stamp dealers Melbourne stiffener found in early FDCs | eBay

Ronald Curwan Walker a stamp dealer at the eastern markets in Melbourne. Also sold coins.

https://www.navic.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Nav96.pdf
Page 48

The Age 1958 - Death notice with all the aliases - does anyone have a real name in this saga ...?

 

[Liselle]

Just an observation about DdH at the inquest , to me it seemed she had problems with tense as in present , past , answers were hard to decipher maybe because she actually does have a disability with memory understanding and articulation . IMO RC seemed to be aware of some sort of issue when he was asking questions to her . And i tend to agree "gas lighting and liars are very proficient with convincing others they imagine things if they question anything.

If DdH ever did anything to assist , other than stay at home and mind the children s lives and according to sources he was hardly ever home , she was most likely coerced in some way or another to assist . IMO if he is ever charged and convicted they will not have much of a case re her involvement unless she actually confesses to doing so willingly .

I know we've moved on from the subject of DdeH, but I am just recapping that there must be a reason why she has/had a "woman's advocate and human rights" lawyer representing her during the inquest. (Praying that the rain stays away from Byron Bay so the inquest doesn’t get delayed again!)

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

I have searched and searched @MrsWattle.
FDW birthdate states 1942
Wonks at inquest says, 'a brother died before AW..... about 30 or so years ago' so given the other 'brother' DDW is an alias wonks has never used, it stands to reason he is still alive * ( I think we all know this to be the case), so that leaves FDW. And apart from the paper writeup I posted a while back that a FD died in accident, and looks to be dismissed by sleuths, I can not find anything else on that.
There are three indications that FDW is indeed deceased.
1. The Gentrees that show he is
2. IF you believe wonks
3. The newspaper clipping ( which was longer that "30 odd yrs ago" but that is wonkas wording)

I don’t think sleuths dismissed just not enough to say yes that’s him 150%
It’s the ‘d’ issue for me which could simply be a typo .. I dunno.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

The Age 1958 - Death notice with all the aliases - does anyone have a real name in this saga ...?

Omg it’s like the universe is playing some sick joke on us..seriously another person with multiple names…..what the??

 

[ruby925]

I'm open to all ideas but the cruise part just doesn't fit with WW for me.

I suspect he originally booked that (expensive) cruise as FD with the intention of scamming someone else on board
OR
He previously met the Walkers in the UK and recognized an absolute bonanza for a narcissistic fraudster.
A naive potential wife with rich parents and an open doorway between Europe and the safe haven of Australia.
Either way, IMO, he was FD when the Walkers first met him and when he flew back home.
And of course he would write to DW from prison - he'd invested too much time, money and effort to let go now. DW was living separate from her parents, I doubt that they knew about his 'French problem' as DdH described it, until much later. And that might explain their rather low-key marriage. IMOO

Was there any suggestion that WW was working on board the ship? I seem to remember him saying 'round trip' at the inquest, which didn't make much sense. However, if he had signed up as an employee for the round trip (with every intention of bailing in Aus) that might explain why he was on a cruiser and not flying (ie he wasn't paying) plus there was the potential for rich pickings IMO. Of course, hiding in plain sight on a ship whilst on the run from criminal activity is also a good wheeze....IMO.

 

[Estelle]

The Age 1958 - Death notice with all the aliases - does anyone have a real name in this saga ...?

Can you imagine how long RB's Death Notice will be with all his aliases? LOL

 

[centred]

I know we've moved on from the subject of DdeH, but I am just recapping that there must be a reason why she has/had a "woman's advocate and human rights" lawyer representing her during the inquest. (Praying that the rain stays away from Byron Bay so the inquest doesn’t get delayed again!)

The subject is open as far as I am concerned its all on the table IMO

yes i can imagine this type of lawyer would come in handy somewhere down the track < her family may have suggested this to be a good idea . Not far off now , other cases i am following keep coming up at similar times so it means being on your toes But delays are rife and annoying

 

[Estelle]

Was there any suggestion that WW was working on board the ship? I seem to remember him saying 'round trip' at the inquest, which didn't make much sense. However, if he had signed up as an employee for the round trip (with every intention of bailing in Aus) that might explain why he was on a cruiser and not flying (ie he wasn't paying) plus there was the potential for rich pickings IMO. Of course, hiding in plain sight on a ship whilst on the run from criminal activity is also a good wheeze....IMO.

Yes I mentioned the idea of RB working on the ship ages ago as it was a two class ship. I imagined that the Walkers would have been First Class and could not imagine RB paying that amount. But if he was a Waiter on the ship in First Class, he could flirt with the women at dinner and maybe served on the Walkers' table.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Con artist ? LOL

Can anyone suggest what kind of 'artist' he may have been? Lol.

 

[centred]

Omg it’s like the universe is playing some sick joke on us..seriously another person with multiple names…..what the??

When i first mentioned these Walkers I just thought it was a coincidence , I wasn't really thinking their could be a direct connection because i have seen the name pop up a lot all over including Tasmania in searches for D family relatives etc . I just found it interesting but it is possible i guess as they do have a common interest .

I wonder if MB had coins or stamps etc ? I cannot recall .

I have learnt a lot about them today though and the connections of the collectors guild so to speak and one of them bought huge books (catalogues) of collectors items that came delivered in crates so this dealer could swoop on sellers by cold calling them in the day when they didn't have communications like the internet and be way ahead of the game before auctions or other sellers .I think i also read they came shipped from overseas as well .

 

[centred]

Yes I mentioned the idea of RB working on the ship ages ago as it was a two class ship. I imagined that the Walkers would have been First Class and could not imagine RB paying that amount. But if he was a Waiter on the ship in First Class, he could flirt with the women at dinner and maybe served on the Walkers' table.

TBH i cannot see why it is thought he could be working on the ship ? Neither of them said it and it was not bought up in court and to assume he could not afford it so worked on board is just unnecessary imagination IMO I cant imagine him working on it anyway. I think he was on it because the Walkers were also on it .