Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #12

[KiwiNZ]

I think AC said his flights were $300-400 return with JAL. That's a HUGE discount on the normal rate.
RB tried to deflect by saying he often flew "one-way" but AC immediately corrected him, saying the prices were for return tickets.
LE know how much he was paying! So now he has to explain why, hence the Meiji and mysterious director story

Do you think AC knew how much he was paying ? I will have to re-listen I thought that RB offered that up.

In my mind he invented a discount to protected himself - he is on a benefit trying not to throw himself under the bus in todays world where his benefit could be stopped and repayment demanded for not declaring incoming. RC pushed hard on the "your on a benefit how do you afford to take multiple trips "

I am going to listen again for the 20th time ... I learn something new every time I listen lol

 

[KiwiNZ]

My own view not shared by all is that Marion never saw the FR ad in 1994. It was such a niche obscure French monthly publication in Australia and Marion’s French was limited. Would she even bother looking at a publication where she wouldn’t understand much of it and find a lonely hearts ad inside also in French?

If she had seen it in 1994 why would it have taken 3 years for the sting to occur? We know Marion’s behaviour started to change in late 1996 and IMHO Mr aka was frequenting public places such as the Arts Centre prowling for single middle-aged women. For example if Marion was sitting alone having a coffee would she object to a similar aged French speaking charmer asking if he could sit at the same table as her? It could be as simple as that.

I agree I thinks it more likely they meet randomly and he just pulled the FR name out of his ... on the spur of the moment.

Or if it was through the ad, they meet briefly in 94 ( this would be the Switzerland meeting in his head ) which would explain the "we meet on 2 difference occasions" and he put her on the back burner until 96/97.

But I think more likely a random meeting, Like MC in Luxembourg

I think his 2 recruitments points are coffee shops and adverts

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

Agreed. However, turned out that the ad was significant, because that led to RB, connected by the surname taken by MB. If the surname had been Smith or Brown, unlikely RB would ever have been found. I hope the authorities have more info/aliases to probe when the inquest resumes.

If he could go back in time I bet that ad would be the first thing he would remove. Little did he know that the Internet and that ad would come back to haunt him 27 years later.

 

[gymtonic]

My own view not shared by all is that Marion never saw the FR ad in 1994. It was such a niche obscure French monthly publication in Australia and Marion’s French was limited. Would she even bother looking at a publication where she wouldn’t understand much of it and find a lonely hearts ad inside also in French?

If she had seen it in 1994 why would it have taken 3 years for the sting to occur? We know Marion’s behaviour started to change in late 1996 and IMHO Mr aka was frequenting public places such as the Arts Centre prowling for single middle-aged women. For example if Marion was sitting alone having a coffee would she object to a similar aged French speaking charmer asking if he could sit at the same table as her? It could be as simple as that.

I am more inclined to your view @Lord Peter Flimsy (I am a Francophile and I didn’t know about Le Courrier, it is very niche as you say) and also that, from memory, AC asked at inquest whether AKA had put similar ads in other local papers since the one in Le Courrier Australien (eg Gold Coast Bulletin?). From memory AKA’s response was vague/ non-commital but not denying? IMO there were more ads, maybe not written specifically with the name FNR in the ad but that name given on inquiry? Hopefully AC has more!

 

[Liselle]

For overseas WS's unfamiliar with Australian social security payments, the following are some of the relevant compliances. Note also, the immigration department will report to the relevant social services' departments when you leave Australia and when you return.
1) While overseas, social security recipients must notify Centrelink of any change to their circumstances which may impact on their entitlements…… to guarantee continuity of payments. e.g. receiving money/payments/gratuities etc. This includes those receiving the Disability Support Pension.
2) If relevant departments can’t get in touch with recipients whilst outside Australia, payments and concession cards could be stopped and usually not restored until you return to Australia. (Exceptions: serious illness & natural disasters.)
3) The full amount of age pension that a person is eligible for is payable while overseas for 26 weeks. However, once overseas for longer than 26 weeks, the amount of age pension payable to a person is dependent upon the person's length of residency in Australia. (RB became eligible for the age pension in July 2004.)
Etc, el al……..

 

[centred]

For overseas WS's unfamiliar with Australian social security payments, the following are some of the relevant compliances. Note also, the immigration department will report to the relevant social services' departments when you leave Australia and when you return.
1) While overseas, social security recipients must notify Centrelink of any change to their circumstances which may impact on their entitlements…… to guarantee continuity of payments. e.g. receiving money/payments/gratuities etc. This includes those receiving the Disability Support Pension.
2) If relevant departments can’t get in touch with recipients whilst outside Australia, payments and concession cards could be stopped and usually not restored until you return to Australia. (Exceptions: serious illness & natural disasters.)
3) The full amount of age pension that a person is eligible for is payable while overseas for 26 weeks. However, once overseas for longer than 26 weeks, the amount of age pension payable to a person is dependent upon the person's length of residency in Australia. (RB became eligible for the age pension in July 2004.)
Etc, el al……..

Good information , can I point out in 3 ....This part was not always the case about the 26 weeks . This is relevantly a new system imposed to take into consideration the amount of Australians who spent very long times overseas with full benefits.

 

[BonnieB]

I am more inclined to your view @Lord Peter Flimsy (I am a Francophile and I didn’t know about Le Courrier, it is very niche as you say) and also that, from memory, AC asked at inquest whether AKA had put similar ads in other local papers since the one in Le Courrier Australien (eg Gold Coast Bulletin?). From memory AKA’s response was vague/ non-commital but not denying? IMO there were more ads, maybe not written specifically with the name FNR in the ad but that name given on inquiry? Hopefully AC has more!

Couldn't agree more @gymtonic! AKA's vague, non-committal response to questions about other ads was telling. He wasn't sure if LE had copies of other ads that he'd placed so he didn't deny it.
I could imagine MB responding to a well-worded ad for companionship, particularly by phone on the spur of the moment.
IMO, his FNR persona was perfect for MB., having been married to a footballer and previously traveled in Europe. I can just imagine him slotting himself into Marion's stories "Oh, yes, I was there too at the same hotel" She would have felt comfortable with him - like an old acquaintance from the past.

 

[Liselle]

Y

Good information , can I point out in 3 ....This part was not always the case about the 26 weeks . This is relevantly a new system imposed to take into consideration the amount of Australians who spent very long times overseas with full benefits.

Yes, @centred I should have added these are the current regulations, so just a broad description. But the average disability pension rate between 1995-2000 was $154/week, so there would be lots of "going without" to afford the many (albeit unnecessary IMO) air trips undertaken!

 

[HinterlandObserver]

AC did ask him why he moved, multiple times. He also asked if something happened in Ballina to force the move and when RB answered "no", AC replied "Are you certain about that?" It made me hope that someone else has come forward.

There was and still is a fair bit of residential crime in the area of Ballina they lived in. I think he moved to avoid more people than necessary seeing what he was bringing into the house, and to avoid it being liberated from him once he did. IMO.
Wollongbar was much smaller at that time than it is now.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Re: Pensions.

Do we know how long he has been receiving disability? And how long DDH has been receiving carer disability?

Surely it hasn’t been since becoming a citizen?

Or has it been since returning to Australua to live in the 80’s?

it doesn’t sound like he has ever actually had a job in Australia. Odd wedding photography cannot be proven neither can working in cafe

 

[centred]

Y

Yes, @centred I should have added these are the current regulations, so just a broad description. But the average disability pension rate between 1995-2000 was $154/week, so there would be lots of "going without" to afford the many (albeit unnecessary IMO) air trips undertaken!

True but people seemed to get by if careful and the cost of living was not as difficult as it is now
I mentioned because many had dual entitlement in both countries I believe as RB claimed himself . Many people seemed to manage the trips back to family as they still do these days . I am not so sure about multiple trips though . I guess people have savings and inheritance etc .

 

[BonnieB]

There was and still is a fair bit of residential crime in the area of Ballina they lived in. I think he moved to avoid more people than necessary seeing what he was bringing into the house, and to avoid it being liberated from him once he did. IMO.
Wollongbar was much smaller at that time than it is now.

That makes sense but why not just relocate to a different part of Ballina, as he did 12 months after moving to Wollongbar? I still believe he had needed to be out of Ballina for a while. It's possible that he scammed someone who threatened him. There was a reason he had to "lay low" for a while IMO

 

[BonnieB]

Re: Pensions.

Do we know how long he has been receiving disability? And how long DDH has been receiving carer disability?

Surely it hasn’t been since becoming a citizen?

Or has it been since returning to Australua to live in the 80’s?

it doesn’t sound like he has ever actually had a job in Australia. Odd wedding photography cannot be proven neither can working in cafe

They have both been on the pension since 1986 when they returned to Australia. Never worked a decent day in their lives. The carer's pension really irritates me, when he was perfectly fine to go trotting off to Europe alone 2-4 times a year. How much care did he need? Filing? Answering service? Pfft...

 

[centred]

They have both been on the pension since 1986 when they returned to Australia. Never worked a decent day in their lives. The carer's pension really irritates me, when he was perfectly fine to go trotting off to Europe alone 2-4 times a year. How much care did he need? Filing? Answering service? Pfft...

It has been in the media alot lately re the amount of income recipients of "all" pensions can earn without full amount being effected and then it deemed by amount declared , so amounts of income can be sourced from hobbies or part time work without penalty etc. Hence them admitting to selling collectors objects etc

 

[Nnbee]

When the family moved each time, did they buy the property and sell the property? Never a rental? It is expensive to move. Hiring trucks or removalists. If buying a selling the agency fees, taxes etc.
Wouldn't it also be costly to move so often? That with the trips etc. I think the JAL discount story might of been a lie to cover his tracks finance wise. He doesn't want to be found of pension fraud. It's hard to tell by the inquest if LE knew of the discount or not. RB brings the discount up first. Maybe LE only have flight passengers lists. Those lists might not have any information regarding staff discounts etc?

 

[Nnbee]

I've never used TROVE before. Has anyone searched the phone number or PO Box RB used through old newspapers?

 

[BonnieB]

I've never used TROVE before. Has anyone searched the phone number or PO Box RB used through old newspapers?

Yes, I have but not for a while. They are always adding more on the site so it's worth another look. Good luck!

 

[gymtonic]

Good information , can I point out in 3 ....This part was not always the case about the 26 weeks . This is relevantly a new system imposed to take into consideration the amount of Australians who spent very long times overseas with full benefits.

Yes, I agree with this. You have to complete a form to tell Centrelink you are going out of the country and they decide whether they will continue or temporarily suspend payments whilst O/S. For holidays payments are usually suspended. family emergencies and illnesses seem to the the only acceptable ones. it probably explains why there has been no travel (that we know of) since the system was tightened up (considerably).

 

[HinterlandObserver]

When the family moved each time, did they buy the property and sell the property? Never a rental? It is expensive to move. Hiring trucks or removalists. If buying a selling the agency fees, taxes etc.
Wouldn't it also be costly to move so often? That with the trips etc. I think the JAL discount story might of been a lie to cover his tracks finance wise. He doesn't want to be found of pension fraud. It's hard to tell by the inquest if LE knew of the discount or not. RB brings the discount up first. Maybe LE only have flight passengers lists. Those lists might not have any information regarding staff discounts etc?

Speaking of pension fraud, I wonder if he updated Centrelink with his name changes, or claimed benefits under one name the entire time?

 

[HinterlandObserver]

That makes sense but why not just relocate to a different part of Ballina, as he did 12 months after moving to Wollongbar? I still believe he had needed to be out of Ballina for a while. It's possible that he scammed someone who threatened him. There was a reason he had to "lay low" for a while IMO

Motivation also may have included prestige?
West ballina (many streets very low socioeconomic) to Wollongbar (higher class) to East Ballina (the most exclusive/ desirable part of Ballina)..
Obviously not necessarily the case but it’s an improvement each time..
Even once they cracked the Byron market they made their way into the more desirable suburbs.