Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #12

[BonnieB]

Hmm I don’t remember a Greek person.. I’m not actually sure why the Sydney forger is referred to as ‘the Greek’ as he’s never been caught and who he is I think is unknown. Although one article said rumours were he was a dentist.

‘

The mysterious culprit is acknowledged as Australia's most skilled philatelic counterfeiter and is referred to simply as "The Greek". "Regardless of what name might crop up, you can bet your bottom dollar there is a connection to The Greek," says Gary Watson, the affable director of Prestige Philately in Melbourne. "I have heard that he is a dentist operating in Sydney and the forgeries are done using a dentist's drill."

Sounds like precision work to me. I doubt RB with his obvious tremors could be involved in anything of that nature these days. Mind you, he wouldn't think twice about selling forgeries for profit IMO

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Sounds like precision work to me. I doubt RB with his obvious tremors could be involved in anything of that nature these days. Mind you, he wouldn't think twice about selling forgeries for profit IMO

Yes IMO not the maker but possible the seller?

 

[centred]

Sounds like precision work to me. I doubt RB with his obvious tremors could be involved in anything of that nature these days. Mind you, he wouldn't think twice about selling forgeries for profit IMO

He was a known forger , and arrested for fraud etc so I have no problem thinking he may have gained this skill as well .

After reading many links about forgeries , some were better at it than others , also the Madame Josepth organization also taught others in the group and outside the group who were private operators . It has also been of interest to me because The Madame is linked to the story of the rescue of allied pilots and smuggling them out to safety . ( re the story i cannot find now that was shared earlier in the thread , I wish I could because a name connected to both was very familiar )

Also the Group Madame Josepth (possibly connected to Joseph Krug, the reserved son of a German butcher who wound up in France,)'Madame Joseph' may have emanated from the WWII Madame Joseph Krug of Rheims who ran an underground escape operation for British pilots downed in occupied France. 'Madame Joseph' was probably not the name of one person but the nom de guerre used by this group who operated in utmost secrecy with the aid of SOE. New evidence suggests that the wooden instruments were the work of master-forger Raoul de Thuin and were made in Belize and Mérida, Mexico 1939–1949.[4]

I believe the name of Mr Josepth wife was Jeanne ? In both stories the wife manned the store so to speak .

Joseph Krug, the reserved son of a German butcher who wound up in France,)
Talk:Champagne Krug - Wikipedia

 

[BonnieB]

Yes IMO not the maker but possible the seller?

I see his 'Collection' also included some small Roman antiquities. I recall we discussed small items that can be easily secreted in luggage.

Thirteenth Session, Commencing at 2.30 pm ANCIENT COINS ROMAN SILVER & BRONZE IMPERIAL - PDF Free Download

Page 465

 

[centred]

Hmm I don’t remember a Greek person.. I’m not actually sure why the Sydney forger is referred to as ‘the Greek’ as he’s never been caught and who he is I think is unknown. Although one article said rumours were he was a dentist.

‘

The mysterious culprit is acknowledged as Australia's most skilled philatelic counterfeiter and is referred to simply as "The Greek". "Regardless of what name might crop up, you can bet your bottom dollar there is a connection to The Greek," says Gary Watson, the affable director of Prestige Philately in Melbourne. "I have heard that he is a dentist operating in Sydney and the forgeries are done using a dentist's drill."

Why has The Greek chosen to momentarily surface? He wants to set the record straight. "The person that the stamp community is tirelessly pursuing is not me," he says. "He's a good friend of mine. He's an electrician and he's doing it to survive. He's got a bad back." The Greek admits to imparting his techniques to the new forger, but claims that he himself has not been active in more than seven years. "I'm too busy doing other stuff now that is more profitable, like property developments," he says.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Was there something at the inquest AC said about a Greek guy?

Just going by memory Mrs Wattle, I think that was something about RB saying one of Marion's sister's had a Greek partner.

 

[mishy66]

Another interesting article about the Sydney Forger referred to as ‘The Greek’ @mishy66


A sticky business

Are you sure 'the greek' isn't RB
The more I read on him the more it sounds like him! ....and the 'dentist' what the!

 

[BonnieB]

I wonder if RGW was a stamp collector?

Stamp of history

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Why has The Greek chosen to momentarily surface? He wants to set the record straight. "The person that the stamp community is tirelessly pursuing is not me," he says. "He's a good friend of mine. He's an electrician and he's doing it to survive. He's got a bad back." The Greek admits to imparting his techniques to the new forger, but claims that he himself has not been active in more than seven years. "I'm too busy doing other stuff now that is more profitable, like property developments," he says.

This made me laugh what is with ego snd fraud

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Are you sure 'the greek' isn't RB
The more I read on him the more it sounds like him! ....and the 'dentist' what the!

I don’t know… the Greek was fascinated by David Allan Gee who had been caught for stamp fraud but got off when it went to trial but eventually got caught and charged with coin forgery .. in 1979 and spent 7 years in jail.. I wonder if RB had ever met him. He was very well known in coin circles.

 

[1965school]

I found the birth of RGW sister elsie birth in WA in 1913 she has an extra E in Initial same as mothers

 

[hoodunnit]

I found the birth of RGW sister elsie birth in WA in 1913 she has an extra E in Initial same as mothers

Can you share? I struggled to find on Ancestry. Whilst it's not really important in the scheme of things, it has driven me nuts looking for her and RGW birth

 

[MrsWattle]

Can you share? I struggled to find on Ancestry. Whilst it's not really important in the scheme of things, it has driven me nuts looking for her and RGW birth

I'd be interested too about Elsie. Please

 

[MrsWattle]

I found a marriage certificate with Elsie and Robert W ( butcher from Bondi)

 

[mishy66]

Can you share? I struggled to find on Ancestry. Whilst it's not really important in the scheme of things, it has driven me nuts looking for her and RGW birth

Yes this would stitch up at least one side of things. This has been really difficult finding it as no Gen trees that are public have given any indication. A link would be great

 

[mishy66]

I found a marriage certificate with Elsie and Robert W ( butcher from Bondi)

Yes I think I included that in the family linkup. RPENROSEW and Elsie and all their court dealings

I haven't looked anymore into the Paul /Weiss connection @MrsWattle - do you have a link? (Don't tell me Elsie marries a Pauls )

but I did find AP ran cattle and had a place called 'Riverview" Little Nymboida

STOCK ACT, 1901. - PART VI.—REGISTRATION OF BRANDS OF HORSES AND CATTLE. FIRST QUARTERLY LIST OF HORSE AND CATTLE BRANDS FOR 1917-SECOND NOTIFICATION. - Government Gazette of the State of New South Wales (Sydney, NSW : 1901 - 2001) - 14 Dec 1917

 

[MrsWattle]

Wiki. The Bruderhof started a community known as Danthonia in Elsmore in 1999. They farm, produce signs and operate a publishing house.[4]

 

[BabeBlues]

Going through the NAA files again on Wonka on page 53 it states in Tournai 1978 "forgery and use of forgery, counterfeit seal, stamps or imprints and usage there of...."

On page 56 there is the forged die in the name "Ye Old Passy" Tamborine and the forged stamps under the name BdP - I know this has all been discussed before @Estelle had noted this back in #7 thread

Pages 57/58 he stole a stamp collection to the value of 425,000 Fr from a Roger in Kokke-Heist, another stamp collection. In Blankenberghe stole 4 stamp albums from Israel and France valued at 250,000 Fr from a Ramon F.

In the SMH article A Sticky Business that @Eyespywithmylittleeye shared about The Greek, David Gee it reads - In Gee's garage, authorities found a number of counterfeit die plates.
A sticky business (smh.com.au)

I think it is fair to say Wonka has a vested interest in stamps and forgery @mishy66 @centred @BonnieB there is still a lot of money to be made in forgery stamps today | Stamp Auction (stampcircuit.com)
@Eyespywithmylittleeye I agree he very well could be the seller??

 

[mishy66]

Going through the NAA files again on Wonka on page 53 it states in Tournai 1978 "forgery and use of forgery, counterfeit seal, stamps or imprints and usage there of...."

On page 56 there is the forged die in the name "Ye Old Passy" Tamborine and the forged stamps under the name BdP - I know this has all been discussed before @Estelle had noted this back in #7 thread

Pages 57/58 he stole a stamp collection to the value of 425,000 Fr from a Roger in Kokke-Heist, another stamp collection. In Blankenberghe stole 4 stamp albums from Israel and France valued at 250,000 Fr from a Ramon F.

In the SMH article A Sticky Business that @Eyespywithmylittleeye shared about The Greek, David Gee it reads - In Gee's garage, authorities found a number of counterfeit die plates.
A sticky business (smh.com.au)

I think it is fair to say Wonka has a vested interest in stamps and forgery @mishy66 @centred @BonnieB there is still a lot of money to be made in forgery stamps today | Stamp Auction (stampcircuit.com)
@Eyespywithmylittleeye I agree he very well could be the seller??

Yep!

Have noted all this too @BabeBlues and I agree that he could very well be the seller - the greek and dentist are all too much of a coincidence.

Great work by all of you!

 

[mishy66]

Elsie born in ELSMORE Inverell married 1939 to Robert Walker (butcher) lived in Bondi. Robert walker buried at "Stoney Ridge" ELSMORE.
Bruderhof in ELSMORE and in UK at Robertsbridge is 10 mins to Burwash.

Elsmore, New South Wales - Wikipedia

Wiki. The Bruderhof started a community known as Danthonia in Elsmore in 1999. They farm, produce signs and operate a publishing house.[4]

This is very very interesting! Given that R GORDON W father, R PENROSE W married his 2nd wife Elsie Weiss and they both knew the area well - she born there and him buried there....

I can NOT imagine for a minute RB would be part of this given one of the VOWS under the Community rules:
"Central to family life is marriage – Christ declared marriage to be the lifelong union of one man and one woman, and he intended it be a joyful union for the bearing and raising of children. In addition to making vows of poverty, Bruderhof members also make vows of chastity, which require abstinence before marriage and outside of it. "

Family

Bruderhof Communities - Wikipedia

But I CAN imagine DdeH / possibly all W family, being part of this religious community -
RB having a wife dedicated to the life of the Bruderhof Christian Community would serve him VERY well in the life he leads.

A wife that stands by and believes all her husband tells her, as that is the way of the Bruderhof community.
THAT would appeal to him endlessly and maybe account for WHY it is DdeH has remained with him all this time.

Danthonia, the first Australian community, opened in 1999. The property, located in northern New South Wales, was originally owned by a homesteading family who raised sheep and cattle. In 2005, a house community in the town of Armidale was started.

A wife dedicated to the beliefs of the Bruderhof who busies herself in the communities here and abroad, particularly in Robertsbridge -approximately 10 miles (16 km) north of Hastings and 13 miles (21 km) south-east of Royal Tunbridge Wells. The River Rother passes through the village.
Robertsbridge - Wikipedia

In 1971, the Bruderhof purchased a property in Robertsbridge, East Sussex, United Kingdom called Darvell..... with the mission, in part, to reach people in Europe who couldn't travel to the USA.
The property, located near the historic town of Hastings.

With a small school in the village - perfect for anyone looking to move there to teach perhaps...?
Home | Salehurst C of E Primary School

and the main railway line from Hastings to London!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/mediapacks/inside-the-bruderhof

Back in Elsmore they even have their own PUBLISHING HOUSE.
Their income comes from producing signs for many Towns, Cities, Councils, Businesses etc.... .They also produce and publish Christian books and magazines.

Bruderhof Experience- Danthonia at Elsmore - Sep 5, 2016 - Elsmore, New South Wales, Australia

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