Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #13

[gymtonic]

Yep I'm trying to figure this out myself.

So, with JO he wanted her out of the way whilst he 'took' her house.

Working on the same method, he wanted Marion out of the way whilst he 'took' her money.

So, maybe it's blindingly obvious?

With JO, she did not follow instruction to take a flight at a later date, and thwarted RB by coming home early. Albeit accidentally. Insofar as she hadn't seen through him, despite her cousin (I think it was) had suspicions, she did not.

With Marion, she did not thwart his plan, accidentally or on purpose, she did not return early. The money was taken, nobody knows by whom, and nobody has ever seen Marion again. We do not have any proof she returned to Aus.

Maybe that's the logic. His plan worked. He came back and took her money whilst someone - who? - 'dealt with' Marion in the UK.

The clue to unpicking that would be examining / scrutinising EXACTLY the minutiae of where exactly did RB leave JO in the UK? what did he tell her to do? where did he tell her to go? what instructions did he leave her with?

Was RB planning to leave JO alone in the UK and totally disappear, leaving her alive and well but somewhat stranded on the other side of the world? Or did he have some fate 'arranged' for her? If so, what? Did he suggest JO some contacts or places to stay or companions or any type of instruction whatsoever? Because those are the clues.

Did RB think he could strand Marion in the UK, drain her bank account, and just disappear, leaving her alive and well and able to tell the tale, return to Aus, report to the police and bank detectives, all of whom could try to track him down somehow and then she could identify him? I suspect not. How realistic would that be?

Therefore, he possibly has at least one accomplice. A female accomplice, or a couple, who 'dealt with' Marion in the UK and then the female travelled on her passport? The Dutch Dentist and 'Maz'?

JO is a very very lucky to be alive woman.

Also, something that crosses my mind whilst pondering all this - as RB has possibly simultaneously held numerous identities and passports (fake or real), we don't know if it is even him who travelled back into Aus on his own passport in the July, if you see what I mean. Even that cannot be truly depended upon as a definite fact.

Yes, there's quite lot here that I have been entertaining, although IMO there's the possibility that he runs multiple simultaneous scams not necessarily with accomplices but with long term criminal contacts in the OC world. IMO The multiple trips in the 90s especially 1995, with no apparent reason (stated family visits not holding water because the main ones are dead) are too close together and of too short a turnaround time to be romance scams (that would require preparation and lead in time), so they are dodgy for another reason. I have been researching the Belgian criminal scene for a while and it is now, and was then, what has been called the "crossroads" hub of OCGs. There are so many characteristics of AKA's criminal history and narrative that fit.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Just had a thought... Sally once said she was trying to become a police officer.

Was this during 1997? You know how Sally and Chris were at McDs when they saw Marion in the car with a man? Sally had just finished attending a TAFE class. Was this to become an officer?

The reason I ask, it THAT may be the reason RB really needed to completely hide himself and distance Marion even more from her family. Know what I mean?

Marion would have been a perfect victim, except for her ambitious daughter. So perhaps he needed to really play the angle Marion didn't want contact with her kids and was angry at Sally for not depositing the car sale money. Just an idea.

 

[Estelle]

You have an excellent understanding of the narcissist, but I think only a psychiatrist could diagnose whether or not RB is also a psychopath. Regardless they both share many similar traits and they both destroy peoples lives.

I think RB is also a sociopath in that he believes the world owes him a living!

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

I’m curious this is a question to sleuths in Belgium.

ive done a bit of a search can find a lot of articles in Uk about MB and the RB association..

Is this in the media in Belgium???

Surely if it is there is someone over there who has had dealings with this man… but I can’t find anything online

edit: why are tournai papers not running this story? I don’t expect it to be main page but certainly a snippet somewhere??

 

[gymtonic]

Yes did the dentist really witness MB's passport application or did RB sign it saying he was the dentist as it's never checked.

The dentist who signed the passport application is one of the dentists at the Queensland Teachers Health Union Centre at St Paul's Terrace in Brisbane. QTHU (now Teachers Health) have their own Centre with their own practitioners. As a QTUH member MB visited this centre for her dental and eye checks (verified by SL) as did I. The dentist gave evidence that he signed the application and as he was also a dentist I saw at the centre, I am inclined to believe he did sign it. There are multiple dentists at the centre that you might see, so he would not necessarily have known MB as well as he would have if she had attended a regular dentist outside of the QTUH system, but as a trusted member he would have authority to verify the documents.

 

[gymtonic]

If someone else did use her card, it makes you think it would have been a female, or else someone using her Medicare number, without her card.

Here's something I posted earlier re the Grafton Medicare:
Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #11

and also
Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #11
EDITED: wrong second link! Technical issues so just copy and pasting second post as the link is not working:
"Actually it is very unlikely that this Optometrist would have access to any previous medical notes at all (especially in 1997). The fact that MB attended the QTUH's own centre in Brisbane and saw in-house providers there (as per normal practice of QTUH members and SL's testimony) meant that all the records would be held there and not accessible by anyone else. This is waaaay before the time of any centralised Australian health records. MyGov and MyHealthRecord has only been introduced fairly recently and MHR is opt in only still (Any Aussies on here will know exactly what I mean about the kerfuffle that has been made any time there has been a proposal to have any centralised anything which is seen as the government keeping tabs!!). Whoever used the Medicare Card used a provider who travelled around to more than one practice and maybe they knew this. Eye exams are the only service claimable under Medicare. IMO Whoever it was just made an appointment for an eye exam and when they turned up were probably asked if they had any concerns and if they knew what their existing prescription was. If they had said that they didn't know but had noticed their eyesight changing, I doubt that this would have been seen as suspicious at all. IMO it would be an excellent way of planting false proof of life.

More commonly Medicare fraud is to use a stolen card to provide points ID for getting other documents, but there is nothing to say that using it to plant proof of life wouldn't also serve a dual purpose."

 

[Estelle]

If your theory is right, why would RB or an accomplice risk using MB's Medicare card in NSW?

To give proof of life. Many criminals stage things to give proof of life after they have murdered someone. Why drive down to Grafton?

It wasn't as if this Optometrist actually knew Marion. This was a first visit and our Medicare cards do not have photos.

 

[gymtonic]

I’m curious this is a question to sleuths in Belgium.

ive done a bit of a search can find a lot of articles in Uk about MB and the RB association..

Is this in the media in Belgium???

Surely if it is there is someone over there who has had dealings with this man… but I can’t find anything online

edit: why are tournai papers not running this story? I don’t expect it to be main page but certainly a snippet somewhere??

IMO it's only in the papers in UK and Oz at the moment because it's only about MB and the inquest at this stage. What I mean is that we are all "suspicious" (LOL I know that's an underestimate) about AKA but he is not on trial and there is nothing linking MB directly with Belgium. This could change....IMO MOO

 

[Estelle]

If someone else did use her card, it makes you think it would have been a female, or else someone using her Medicare number, without her card.

I have always assumed that it was RB's wife who used the Medicare card in Grafton.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I'm really surprised that the Belgian papers wouldn't be interested in RB who seems to have made a career out of at least being dodgy.
Even without the interest in Marion.

I would have thought some there would be digging up anything they could find on him.
There may be a lot more that hasn't come to light yet, in Belgium, Luxenbourg and everywhere else he spent time.

 

[KateM]

I have always assumed that it was RB's wife who used the Medicare card in Grafton.

If she did, it would have been to create confusion, as she would have had her own card. I've always suspected that she's an accomplice.

 

[DK007]

Interesting isn't it? It seems she was only ever meant to be FNMR overseas. It was a deliberate choice to remain Marion in Australia. This is why I too believe the name change was at his instruction. If she was madly in love and genuinely interested in a new image, she would have changed all her IDs, accounts and documents, no?

He must have spun a very interesting yarn as to why she needed to ONLY change her overseas IDs.

This is why I believe he was feeding her stories about their lives being in danger and they needed to be discrete. I believe she was afraid, hence why she got a will in Nov 1996.

This theory is plausible as why would Marion keep Marion in her name new name change? (this always stuck out with me. If she really wanted to disappear) She probably kept Marion in new name change to link her to her to her real ID or possibly she may have had an unwelcoming gut feeling and kept Marion incase something was to go wrong ? IMO

 

[Estelle]

The dentist who signed the passport application is one of the dentists at the Queensland Teachers Health Union Centre at St Paul's Terrace in Brisbane. QTHU (now Teachers Health) have their own Centre with their own practitioners. As a QTUH member MB visited this centre for her dental and eye checks (verified by SL) as did I. The dentist gave evidence that he signed the application and as he was also a dentist I saw at the centre, I am inclined to believe he did sign it. There are multiple dentists at the centre that you might see, so he would not necessarily have known MB as well as he would have if she had attended a regular dentist outside of the QTUH system, but as a trusted member he would have authority to verify the documents.

I read that this Dentist did not remember signing Marion's passport application. Also there is no evidence that Marion was having any dental treatment so maybe she visited him once a year. If he had so many patients, how could he remember her? I thought the form was left for him to sign so MB was not even with that form.

 

[mishy66]

Theories Update
IMO 3 or possibly 4 are most likely

RB & MC
Given RB's effusive love letter penned in August 1980, describing the effect on him of their love-making I'm fairly certain their affair began at that time. I assume MC was separated at that time.
I also suspect DdH's return to Australia in January 1981 when 6.5mths pregnant, might be connected to his manic obsession with MC. I think he may have convinced Diane to come back to Luxembourg with his "platonic" story. No wonder he was visibly horrified when that love letter was read out.
I think he remained obsessed with MC and saw her again in 1992. Whether they had a sexual encounter during that trip would be speculation but it certainly inspired a flurry of correspondence after he returned and moved to Tassie.

IMO his obsession with MC could only be satisfied to some degree through Marion, JO and possibly other women. The man is a psychopath.

I totally agree Bonnie.
1980 Feb 6 – Departs for Holland FdeH - He is out of Aust for 6 years with family -

Dianne and son leave for Amsterdam 23 April 1980 then both arrive back into Aust from GERMANY 21 JAN 1981

Then Dianne and son fly back again to Lux in time for the birth of daughter 17 APRIL 1981

1. That is some expenditure flying back and forth shy of 3 months for the birth of a baby
2.Why would Dianne be flying such a long way at 7 mths pregnant only to turn around and go back and with a child who is 2 years old~! Quite a trip!
3. He is having an affair with MC while Dianne is pregnant with M
4. I think once MC found out Dianne was pregnant she called off the romance and he groveled his way back to Dianne convincing her to come back to him. Money being his reasoning, not the fact he was about to become a father again!!!!

 

[gymtonic]

I read that this Dentist did not remember signing Marion's passport application. Also there is no evidence that Marion was having any dental treatment so maybe she visited him once a year. If he had so many patients, how could he remember her? I thought the form was left for him to sign so MB was not even with that form.

I think he said that he had "no independent memory" of signing it but that really means that he verified that it was his signature but this long after could not remember doing so. It doesn't mean that MB wasn't there but that he can't, under oath, remember the details.

In my "Database" I have an entry that says MB used her medicare card on 1 April 1997 at local clinic. As there is no further detail, we have to extrapolate from this about whether this was QTUH "clinic" (not really local) or it could be that she visited local clinics on the Gold Coast, used Medicare card and paid other services and then had to claim that back through QTUH Centre? I really would like to know why there were medicare records but no private health QTUH records presented since SL verified that MB did indeed visit the Centre on St Paul's Terrace for her checks.

 

[Estelle]

If she did, it would have been to create confusion, as she would have had her own card. I've always suspected that she's an accomplice.

Yes IMO RB's wife was his accomplice in 1997.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

IMO it's only in the papers in UK and Oz at the moment because it's only about MB and the inquest at this stage. What I mean is that we are all "suspicious" (LOL I know that's an underestimate) about AKA but he is not on trial and there is nothing linking MB directly with Belgium. This could change....IMO MOO

Yes I know he’s not trial but he has a long wrap sheet - not expecting them to mention everything but simply inquest into missing woman and a Belgium man using up to 30 aliases giving testimony.. IMO that’s news worthy in Belgium..
It may then trigger memories of any other people who have been ‘done’ over by this man especially if aliases were mentioned

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I wonder if Marion needed to get an eye test for her international drivers licence.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I only had a very quick look but did find a December 1997 one, complete with a page of classifieds.
I'm thinking there may be more there.

Is the Gold Coast Bulletin for 1996 and 1997 on Trove?

 

[Estelle]

Yes I know he’s not trial but he has a long wrap sheet - not expecting them to mention everything but simply inquest into missing woman and a Belgium man using up to 30 aliases giving testimony.. IMO that’s news worthy in Belgium..
It may then trigger memories of any other people who have been ‘done’ over by this man especially if aliases were mentioned

....and younger photos printed.