Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #13

[Estelle]

I wonder if Marion needed to get an eye test for her international drivers licence.

No - one does not need to have an eye test to get an International Driving Licence. Whether you wear glasses to drive is listed on your local driver's licence.

 

[mishy66]

IMO

Yes he was clearly in love with MC (as much as a psychopath can love) he had grandiose ideas of sailing off into the sunset with her. She was married to a footballer, and she had been an actress (to him a bit of fame) all things that would appeal to his ego. Being with her made him feel important. But ultimately she left him.

Do I think his obsession for MC is what has drawn him to Marion (ex footballers wife and teacher) no I don’t. Do I think as a few have mentioned that this has led him to want to re-create a version of MC in MB nope I don’t. 100% he is delusional with his fantasies of him and MC bring his ‘best friend’ she sounds lovely so I suspect after it ended she didn’t cut all ties and perhaps it was a friendly break up.. therefore he still believed he had a chance and they were friends. His ego and grandiose mind would never believed she didn’t want him.

the women in Australia all had either assets or money. That was his motivation.

He clearly feels inferior so he seeks people that can give him the lifestyle he believes he deserves.

I am not sure about Le Courier and MB replying mainly due to the fact it is a French paper that someone would seek out only because they speak French fluently which Marion didn’t.

I think the Article about teacher of the year spiked curiosity and from there he has checked out Marion out.. which has most likely led him to an ‘accidental randomly planned’ meeting at the arts centre. MC also said their meeting was random. She met him at a coffee shop.

I believe this started late 96 (she had decided to travel OS and told her parents at Christmas time) perhaps the decision to travel OS had actually been made earlier hence the renewal of her MB passport.

Suddenly she meets a man, he does his psycho love bombing and she falls for him badly. He promises a new life together.. he tells her he is living with his wife but their marriage is over so she doesn’t believe he is married in the true sense. Therefore continues the relationship.

He comes up with the name of Florabella his ‘pet’ name for her.

they secretly plan their new life together. He will travel OS and will leave his wife, she will continue her travels plans they will meet up outside of Australia.

Something happens OS and he leaves.. (most likely money related) she panics, loves him and follows him back to declare her love. (Narcissistic behaviour - creates a drama, gaslights her, leaves and she think it’s her fault so follows him back to fix it)

they meet up soon after she lands and all is well. Marion withdraws the money

A joint account is set up. Using his FNR ID and MB’s passport. The account is in the name of F Remakel or Mr F N & Mrs F N Remakel.

marion starts to question almost immediately when can they now go back to Europe/ Luxembourg (not UK)

Each day she hassles more…he eventually says he’s not leaving his wife…all money is removed she realises she’s been played. And loses it.
Something terrible happens.

the safety deposit envelope holds new bank account details in Remakel name.

the final $60k is MB withdrawing as I don’t believe DDH has the nerve to be involved and I honestly don’t think she knew anything of MB at that time. Nor do I think he is stupid enough to bring in an accomplice to share the profit.

Just another theory IMO

But why would he say to her he was married??? That only ads another layer to his deception. No I don't think he would ever mention he was married to any of the women.

Why wait a week to withdraw the money IF that was the sole purpose of coming back?
Within that week all the money and paperwork could have been done and her back OS by the end of that week.

 

[gymtonic]

I wonder if Marion needed to get an eye test for her international drivers licence.

Do we know MB got an International DL for sure? I know that BS said the box for INT DL was checked on the list of docs supplied to get FNMR passport (?) but I thought he was hinting/ suggesting that MB used AKA's INT DL in the name of FNR rather than one in her name. I was a bit tired at this point, so may have switched off slightly.

 

[mishy66]

Perhaps to have someone withdraw the money from her account in the daily limit amounts?

Yep I'm trying to figure this out myself.

So, with JO he wanted her out of the way whilst he 'took' her house.

Working on the same method, he wanted Marion out of the way whilst he 'took' her money.

So, maybe it's blindingly obvious?

With JO, she did not follow instruction to take a flight at a later date, and thwarted RB by coming home early. Albeit accidentally. Insofar as she hadn't seen through him, despite her cousin (I think it was) had suspicions, she did not.

With Marion, she did not thwart his plan, accidentally or on purpose, she did not return early. The money was taken, nobody knows by whom, and nobody has ever seen Marion again. We do not have any proof she returned to Aus.

Maybe that's the logic. His plan worked. He came back and took her money whilst someone - who? - 'dealt with' Marion in the UK.

The clue to unpicking that would be examining / scrutinising EXACTLY the minutiae of where exactly did RB leave JO in the UK? what did he tell her to do? where did he tell her to go? what instructions did he leave her with?

Was RB planning to leave JO alone in the UK and totally disappear, leaving her alive and well but somewhat stranded on the other side of the world? Or did he have some fate 'arranged' for her? If so, what? Did he suggest JO some contacts or places to stay or companions or any type of instruction whatsoever? Because those are the clues.

Did RB think he could strand Marion in the UK, drain her bank account, and just disappear, leaving her alive and well and able to tell the tale, return to Aus, report to the police and bank detectives, all of whom could try to track him down somehow and then she could identify him? I suspect not. How realistic would that be?

Therefore, he possibly has at least one accomplice. A female accomplice, or a couple, who 'dealt with' Marion in the UK and then the female travelled on her passport? The Dutch Dentist and 'Maz'?

JO is a very very lucky to be alive woman.

Also, something that crosses my mind whilst pondering all this - as RB has possibly simultaneously held numerous identities and passports (fake or real), we don't know if it is even him who travelled back into Aus on his own passport in the July, if you see what I mean. Even that cannot be truly depended upon as a definite fact.

This is bonkers but no one has mentioned it before, so what if...

RB needs to have access to Marion's birth certificate and passport in order to have ID for the bank withdrawals, especially the big $80k one?
Marion already renewed her passport mid 1996, so that won't work.
So he invented a reason for Marion to change her name so he could get hold of all her IDs?
Remember JO said she gave RB all her documents and he handled her passport renewal process?
I don't know. I hope that make sense

All of this makes so much sense.

 

[mishy66]

Also, something I wonder about a lot -

Is it possible RB knew someone who knew Marion quite well? He seems like a person who would know a lot of people -
MOO

I believe there was a common denominator with a friend yes. Someone she worked with I believe. Some one like Luke Glover JMO

 

[mishy66]

Love your thinking @Peralta ...Just a couple of comments in Red
Theories update
1. Marion answered Le Courrier ad, he stalked her and waited until she was single. IMO this one is unlikely because by Dec 1994 MB was Queensland based, did not speak French or was not a Francophile (enough to seek out a subscription to Le Courier). I do speak French and am a Francophile, but I didn't know about Le Courier because it was a print based, Sydney based paper. IMO he placed ads in multiple papers for different "targets" (and we just haven't found any others in other aliases or the others don't use any names). Le Courier ad was to attract a Sydney based, Francophone "targets" and maybe he didn't get many "hits". I thought it was AC who first asked about whether he had placed ads in The Gold Coast Bulletin which made me wonder whether they had found something suspicious but with no name or no known alias?
2. He randomly stole her wallet OR was given info about her from bank or real estate and then stole her wallet. IMO the wallet may be a red herring and just something that unfortunately happens randomly. It was a few years before as you said, and doesn't appear to be linked to any other use apart from the Service Station at the time? However links with a bank employee is very possible, as it is part of his MO.
3. He saw her award in the paper and became obsessed due to similarities with MC. This is the one I like following the last 3 days testimony. I wasn't convinced one way or the other before but the letter to MC swayed me.
4. He met her through arts centre or school, either randomly or was tipped off. IMO an art centre meeting could be linked with your theory 3 above, so not such a random meet but followed on from newspaper and possibly engineering a meeting? Maybe he saw MB at the art centre before the award announcement in the paper. Did MB go to the art centre frequently?

Totally agree they did not meet through an ad.
Agree about a link to the bank /real estate
Agree about his obsession with MC and MB similarities
I think he met her through the school.

 

[gymtonic]

I have always assumed that it was RB's wife who used the Medicare card in Grafton.

Maybe. I have tried to put myself in a position of an optometrist who travels around to a couple of country towns but has a base elsewhere (like that one did) and someone turns up for a simple eye test check because "in their words" (assumption) they are just visiting and think they might have a problem. Questions:

• Would they be able to get the test just by knowing the medicare number and without the physical card? (e.g. if they said they forgot to bring it with them?).
• Would the optometrist be very suspicious? Medicare fraud is more often about using the card as ID points for other docs, and would the optometrist think that it is hardly likely to be fraud for a simple eye test? (and therefore see no harm in recording the number and doing the test?). I mean I know that it is illegal practice to prevent illegal immigrants trying to access services but maybe someone with the "gift of the gab" could be persuasive.
• Would the optometrist not pay much attention to the card or not even sight it, if it is dealt with by a receptionist rather than by the optometrist? so it might not be a huge risk being in a female name Marion? (we all know John Wayne's real name was Marion!)
• Did cards have to be physically swiped (imprinted like credit cards) back then or just sighted?
• My Medicare card has the number 2 (IRN) below the name and number indicating that I am the second person in the family on that card. I now know this to be relating to my ex being number 1 (IRN), so does that mean he (my ex) has the same Medicare number as me but with the number 1 below? Maybe other sleuths here in that position can answer that? As I've always been curious about whether this might be significant.

 

[mishy66]

Spontaneous random thought. In the inquest RB says he told Marion he needed to end this charade because he was married with two children. This I don't get. Marion was going overseas for a year or more, err, wouldn't that be enough, she'd be gone overseas? Absolutely no need to say he needs to end this charade.
Add to that, she wouldn't have known where he lived, never seen his car, didn't know his real name, no phone number .... good grief.
PS: One question they omitted to ask at the inquest - "Mr Blum, are there fairies living at the bottom of your garden?"

 

[mishy66]

If your theory is right, why would RB or an accomplice risk using MB's Medicare card in NSW?

It wouldn't be a risk. It would be to show that it was "Marion" who was using it therefore providing a clue she was alive and he had nothing to do with her traveling back.

 

[mishy66]

If someone else did use her card, it makes you think it would have been a female, or else someone using her Medicare number, without her card.

Maybe the actual card wasn't presented. Maybe someone went in to add another layer that Marion was still alive at that time and when ID was produced by way of License the staff asked, " does your medicare card end in....." when looking through her account. Yes it does. Thank you.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Maybe. I have tried to put myself in a position of an optometrist who travels around to a couple of country towns but has a base elsewhere (like that one did) and someone turns up for a simple eye test check because "in their words" (assumption) they are just visiting and think they might have a problem. Questions:

• Would they be able to get the test just by knowing the medicare number and without the physical card? (e.g. if they said they forgot to bring it with them?).
• Would the optometrist be very suspicious? Medicare fraud is more often about using the card as ID points for other docs, and would the optometrist think that it is hardly likely to be fraud for a simple eye test? (and therefore see no harm in recording the number and doing the test?). I mean I know that it is illegal practice to prevent illegal immigrants trying to access services but maybe someone with the "gift of the gab" could be persuasive.
• Would the optometrist not pay much attention to the card or not even sight it, if it is dealt with by a receptionist rather than by the optometrist? so it might not be a huge risk being in a female name Marion? (we all know John Wayne's real name was Marion!)
• Did cards have to be physically swiped (imprinted like credit cards) back then or just sighted?
• My Medicare card has the number 2 (IRN) below the name and number indicating that I am the second person in the family on that card. I now know this to be relating to my ex being number 1 (IRN), so does that mean he (my ex) has the same Medicare number as me but with the number 1 below? Maybe other sleuths here in that position can answer that? As I've always been curious about whether this might be significant.

Trying to remember how medicare cards were used in 1997, also keeping in mind that Grafton is a somewhat rural area, definitely not metropolitan, so perhaps they didn't have all the latest IT.

Today, your card number is in their computer system and that is linked via internet to a larger medicare database. So all that is required today, is for you to present card and they check it matches the one on file in the system, right?

But in the past you had to use a manual swipe machine with carbon paper so there were three copies, very similar to the old gadget used to swipe credit cards. A copy for patient, a copy for Dr, and a copy sent away to medicare so Dr got paid. Or am I imagining it

However, there were no checks made to ensure a person was using their own medicare card. There's no photo and they don't ask for other ID.

If you were using additional health insurance, those needed to match. But if it was a regular check up without purchasing glasses, then you wouldn't need to provide insurance details. Or you could just pay for additional expenses not covered by medicare out of pocket.

People don't usually use other people's medicare cards because all Aus residents have one and you typically ask for a new one if you lost your wallet, so old or stolen cards are void.

 

[mishy66]

Just had a thought... Sally once said she was trying to become a police officer.

Was this during 1997? You know how Sally and Chris were at McDs when they saw Marion in the car with a man? Sally had just finished attending a TAFE class. Was this to become an officer?

The reason I ask, it THAT may be the reason RB really needed to completely hide himself and distance Marion even more from her family. Know what I mean?

Marion would have been a perfect victim, except for her ambitious daughter. So perhaps he needed to really play the angle Marion didn't want contact with her kids and was angry at Sally for not depositing the car sale money. Just an idea.

Did. Not. Know. That.

Puts a whole new light on this

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Maybe. I have tried to put myself in a position of an optometrist who travels around to a couple of country towns but has a base elsewhere (like that one did) and someone turns up for a simple eye test check because "in their words" (assumption) they are just visiting and think they might have a problem. Questions:

• Would they be able to get the test just by knowing the medicare number and without the physical card? (e.g. if they said they forgot to bring it with them?).
• Would the optometrist be very suspicious? Medicare fraud is more often about using the card as ID points for other docs, and would the optometrist think that it is hardly likely to be fraud for a simple eye test? (and therefore see no harm in recording the number and doing the test?). I mean I know that it is illegal practice to prevent illegal immigrants trying to access services but maybe someone with the "gift of the gab" could be persuasive.
• Would the optometrist not pay much attention to the card or not even sight it, if it is dealt with by a receptionist rather than by the optometrist? so it might not be a huge risk being in a female name Marion? (we all know John Wayne's real name was Marion!)
• Did cards have to be physically swiped (imprinted like credit cards) back then or just sighted?
• My Medicare card has the number 2 (IRN) below the name and number indicating that I am the second person in the family on that card. I now know this to be relating to my ex being number 1 (IRN), so does that mean he (my ex) has the same Medicare number as me but with the number 1 below? Maybe other sleuths here in that position can answer that? As I've always been curious about whether this might be significant.

To answer your question:

• They would definitely need a physical medicare card.
• Optometrist would NOT be suspicious at all. All Dr cares about is ensuring they send the slip away to get paid for treating a patient.
• Whoever was seen at optometrist would need to be a woman claiming to be named Marion.

 

[BonnieB]

Trying to remember how the medicare cards was used in 1997, also keeping in mind that Grafton is a somewhat rural area, definitely not metropolitan, so perhaps they didn't have all the latest IT.

Today, your card number is in their computer system and that is linked via internet to a larger medicare database. So all that is required today, is for you to present card and they check it matches the one on file in the system, right?

But in the past you had to use a manual swipe machine with carbon paper so there were three copies, very similar to the old gadget used to swipe credit cards. A copy for patient, a copy for Dr, and a copy sent away to medicare so Dr got paid. Or am I imagining it

However, there were no checks made to ensure a person was using their own medicare card. There's no photo and they don't ask for other ID.

If you were using additional health insurance, those needed to match. But if it was a regular check up without purchasing glasses, then you wouldn't need to provide insurance details.

People don't usually use other people's medicare cards because all Aus residents have one and you typically ask for a new one if you lost your wallet.

From memory, and I could be wrong, the Medicare card was swiped on the imprint gadget back in 97. You were given a carbon copy of the imprint. No other ID was required from memory.

If it was Marion who used the card, I feel it can be easily explained that she visited the optometrist for a simple check for eye irritation. Dry eyes are a common symptom experienced by some people after long-haul flights.

 

[sunnybree]

From memory, the optometrist could not recall anything about the appointment (understandable as it was more than 20 years ago), but I agree with the above - any woman could have attended with the physical card and say she was Marion. Although I do think it could very well have been Marion herself. If only it could be discovered where she was staying, what she was doing between August and October. A critical timeframe.

 

[KateM]

Maybe the actual card wasn't presented. Maybe someone went in to add another layer that Marion was still alive at that time and when ID was produced by way of License the staff asked, " does your medicare card end in....." when looking through her account. Yes it does. Thank you.

Yes, I considered that, which is why I said that they may not have used her card.

 

[KateM]

Trying to remember how medicare cards were used in 1997, also keeping in mind that Grafton is a somewhat rural area, definitely not metropolitan, so perhaps they didn't have all the latest IT.

Today, your card number is in their computer system and that is linked via internet to a larger medicare database. So all that is required today, is for you to present card and they check it matches the one on file in the system, right?

But in the past you had to use a manual swipe machine with carbon paper so there were three copies, very similar to the old gadget used to swipe credit cards. A copy for patient, a copy for Dr, and a copy sent away to medicare so Dr got paid. Or am I imagining it

However, there were no checks made to ensure a person was using their own medicare card. There's no photo and they don't ask for other ID.

If you were using additional health insurance, those needed to match. But if it was a regular check up without purchasing glasses, then you wouldn't need to provide insurance details. Or you could just pay for additional expenses not covered by medicare out of pocket.

People don't usually use other people's medicare cards because all Aus residents have one and you typically ask for a new one if you lost your wallet, so old or stolen cards are void.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Do we know MB got an International DL for sure? I know that BS said the box for INT DL was checked on the list of docs supplied to get FNMR passport (?) but I thought he was hinting/ suggesting that MB used AKA's INT DL in the name of FNR rather than one in her name. I was a bit tired at this point, so may have switched off slightly.

I'm super confused about this too. I think there are a few things going on here:

1. When Marion applied for her new FNMR passport, she ticked a box saying that she was also intending to get an international drivers licence.

Does anyone know if the Aus passport office issues you with a licence if you simply tick the box? Today you can't, you need to apply elsewhere and can do it through RACQ! In any case, it's never been revealed if Marion actually got one.

2. Smith suggested it was RB who asked Marion to get an international licence on the FNRM name, because it would be beneficial to him. Which of course he denied.

3. RB might've stolen FR's actual licence in order to create his alias and get a QLD licence.

 

[BonnieB]

It wouldn't be a risk. It would be to show that it was "Marion" who was using it therefore providing a clue she was alive and he had nothing to do with her traveling back.

I agree there would be no risk at the time of consultation to have a female use the card. A receptionist would simply swipe the card.
BUT the risk would be IF Marion had been reported missing and police HAD followed up immediately, the receptionist may have been able to identify the female who used the card. He had no way of knowing it would take 20 odd years to follow up on the cards use.

I have always believed in the simplest explanation that it WAS Marion who used the card with or without RB's knowledge. It just fits the timeline.

31st Jul & 2nd Aug - They both return to Australia
3rd Aug - 10th Aug - They spend a week together for re-inforcement of control & planning by RB. Marion requires more effort than past victims. During this time Marion may have changed her appearance (cut or coloured her hair) DdH has no idea RB has returned from OS at this stage.
11th Aug - RB purchases the car from Alstonville, near his home in Wollongbar. DdH knows he is home now.
13th Aug - RB takes Marion to a location in the Grafton area where she uses her Medicare card.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

The more I think about it, the more I think MC was just collateral damage.
The real target might be FR.
I think FR has something RB wants.
Just the way RB keeps trying to have a valid ID with the FNR name overseas.