Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #14

[Nnbee]

In regards to Marion noticing that Sally hadn't put the money into her account re the sale of the car, that's fairly good evidence that Marion did in fact return to Australia, is it not?

Not definitively. Marion probably didn't care about the money from the car. How much could it have been? 10k -20k? She wasn't strapped for cash. However someone else, like RB, who would have definitely known about all of Marions assets and loves money would more likely be annoyed the money hadn't been put in to the account he was trying to drain.

 

[Nnbee]

Oh, sorry! The guy on the left. He doesn't wear sportsgear Maybe he's their mascot or the football agent (we've had a lot of frauding football agents )

This guy seems too short. Isn't AKA 6 foot 3?

 

[mishy66]

From my notes (but no image)...This is the text I have for the Postcard August 7 (not those attached to your post which I do have as postmarked 7 July)

The strand, Winchelsea postcard sent from Tunbridge Wells 7 August 1997

Sister dear “Hi” hope you and the family are well. I’m having a ball. England is so beautiful and so much to see,do, explore, learn, eat and op shops galore. I say to myself, where’s Leep? Good bargains too. It's sad because I can’t possibly buy one more thing. Talk about shop till you drop. I’m totally in my element. Beautiful gardens, weather’s been fine, Wearing shorts. Delayed my Orient trip till late August, first available rebooking due to earlier rain and floods in Germany. I don’t want to leave The UK just yet. Heaps of private schools. Could’ve had a job at a local village school, relief but not ready yet. Lovely families in old oast houses I’ve stayed with and b&bs. Met a Dutch dentist and a lady called Maz. Love you heaps M

Was it you @Lord Peter Flimsy that posted this text and the postcard image previously?

Yes Lord Peter did a great job translating them. The August 7th one was read on the podcast so I am not sure there was a photograph of that postcard but it was August 7th, and the August 30th was also on the podcast.


Just on that "unknown" ......IF it was Marion who came back into Aust.....
We heard how Blum fills out passenger cards for others and also it was suggested by him that he picks them up at the "counter with the pens", so it is feasible that he coerced Marion to fill out an incoming passenger card much earlier on, maybe while she was travelling over herself?, and he had it on him with her other documents. Some parts of that card is not her writing and I personally don't believe it is the same signature on both.

Also, IF it was her coming in, she must have been well and truly on the run to go buy a ticket for a flight somewhere in the UK while hoping there was a seat on that flight.... no internet bookings back then. It was either into a travel agent to book and pay or turn up at the airport and try your luck.

 

[Deleted member 83851]

“Losing” money due to beatings makes me think of a prison more than, say, a shopping centre parking lot. If he did really get beaten then it was by criminal associates and more likely happened in the casino parking lot.

But I’m more on the side of money laundering through Jupiter’s Casino. I suspect one of my ex-friends used to do that. He would visit the casino every night for an hour then leave. I thought it was peculiar behaviour at the time and didn’t put two and two together until recently. There is also a huge casino in Bermuda which is where a lot of offshore accounts are located, hidden from taxes. This is where the ex-friend likes to travel at least once a year. Visiting his money? Who knows.

I didn’t cotton on because I had no idea he had become so wealthy. That was the surprising part.

 

[mishy66]

Some Belgians speak Dutch and French.

@Carovb5 is from Belgium

 

[KiwiNZ]

I think I’ve said this before but I really think the Aug 7 postcard is dated July 7…it just has all the same markings as the postcard dated July 7. The Jul part is hard to see so could be so light on the other one that it looked like Aug

I agree I think they were posted at the same time, from the same place, both marks look identical and both missing the same impression bits

Wish we could see the 30 of August card

 

[mishy66]

In regards to Marion noticing that Sally hadn't put the money into her account re the sale of the car, that's fairly good evidence that Marion did in fact return to Australia, is it not?

I don't think so personally.
That whole car payment is another interesting topic that involves someone who had knowledge of money owing to Marion.
The "Bank Security Officer" was the one that told the Salvos who in turn told the family, that Marion was angry that Sally hadn't put in the payment for the sold car. And it was that very reason that Marion's sister and her father believed that Marion was was found and wanted to be left alone.
It was later found that the bank had no Security Officer. And Sally herself has said her Mother would not have been angry about the car payment.

All about the BANK ! IMO

 

[mishy66]

“Losing” money due to beatings makes me think of a prison more than, say, a shopping centre parking lot. If he did really get beaten then it was by criminal associates and more likely happened in the casino parking lot.

But I’m more on the side of money laundering through Jupiter’s Casino. I suspect one of my ex-friends used to do that. He would visit the casino every night for an hour then leave. I thought it was peculiar behaviour at the time and didn’t put two and two together until recently. There is also a huge casino in Bermuda which is where a lot of offshore accounts are located, hidden from taxes. This is where the ex-friend likes to travel at least once a year. Visiting his money? Who knows.

I didn’t cotton on because I had no idea he had become so wealthy. That was the surprising part.

BIG business Casinos and money laundering

 

[Liselle]

Woesten: kaarterskampioen Maurice De Puydt.

Look at #9's name! Roger Laseure!! A handsome man (fantasy?), but possibly deceased by the time WW used his name as one of his many aliases - almost similar Roger Lazoney.

 

[mishy66]

I think I’ve said this before but I really think the Aug 7 postcard is dated July 7…it just has all the same markings as the postcard dated July 7. The Jul part is hard to see so could be so light on the other one that it looked like Aug

Neither of these are the August postcards.

BOTH of them are July :
Postcard from The Cat Shop, Brighton. Sent from Hastings 7th July.
"Dearest Noni, Margie and Dub......."


Postcard of Rye sent from Hastings 7 July 1997
"Dearest sister and family. Hope you are well.
It’s so special being back in this beautiful country after 30 years...........


Then on the podcast:
The strand, Winchelsea postcard sent from Tunbridge Wells 7 August 1997
"Sister dear “Hi” hope you and the family are well. I’m having a ball. England is so beautiful and so much to see,do, explore, learn, eat and op shops galore......

and then reference again to another postcard postmarked August 30 also sent from Tunbridge Wells.
‎The Lady Vanishes: 4. Taken on Apple Podcasts

 

[mishy66]

Look at #9's name! Roger Laseure!! An older man, possibly deceased by the time WW used his name as one of his many aliases - almost similar Roger Lazoney.

yep it is quite amazing

 

[gymtonic]

I agree I think they were posted at the same time, from the same place, both marks look identical and both missing the same impression bits

Wish we could see the 30 of August card


View attachment 342552

@KiwiNZ Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #14

 

[Bagpus]

In regards to Marion noticing that Sally hadn't put the money into her account re the sale of the car, that's fairly good evidence that Marion did in fact return to Australia, is it not?

And, it would appear, under great pressure in regards to money.

 

[Nnbee]

Maybe he was tinder swindling her! "my enemies are after me !"
God only knows. Im not sure we will ever find out.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

I always felt her postcards from UK sounded cliched, as if she were making touristy things up. Purely opinion. And if she was, what was she really doing? Boring weird things that RB wanted to do? Was she stranded in an out of the way hostelry? Waiting for the fun to begin?

I’m so glad you said that as I’ve felt the same.. they don’t read real and genuine

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

I've had a think about this but how much of what Marion did before leaving was omitting to reveal information rather than "actively" telling a lie? So, not telling people you are in a relationship with a man, not revealing details of it and not telling someone you've changed your name is not being open, and even saying "mind your own business" when asked who someone was, covering up why you don't want to get a lift to the airport...all these sorts of things.... is not being an open book, it is secretive and not MB's usual behaviour, but it's of a different scale to actively and deliberately writing or telling absolute lies. People with morals can see a difference between being a bit evasive verbally, omitting to tell something and telling outright porkers! When I read the postcards and hear about the reported content of the phone calls, I feel that MB is not writing fiction and is reporting what she is doing and is telling SL the truth on the phone. I'm not saying that nothing else is going on that she is omitting or being evasive about, but I feel that MB - not accustomed to telling lies or writing falsehoods - would probably chose to not write any postcards at all or not make phone calls, rather than write a whole lot of fictional postcards. Of course I don't know her personally so I am making an assessment of her character from what SL and her friends and family say. The alternative that has been proposed is that AKA is coercing her to write the postcards and what to say but I can't see what advantage that has for him. He would find it much easier all around for MB not to be writing any postcards (in case she slipped up) and even (if she was being coerced) saying "don't write to anyone". My gut feeling is that IF MB is writing fiction on all the postcards, that is a very difficult thing to do for an unpracticed liar and causes much internal stress. The postcards on the other hand reflect someone who is starting to relax and enjoy the break and pottering around. I feel there are clues to be unravelled e.g. linking Amsterdam with going on the OE (which is not on its route) and why the OE trip was postponed to a later time that can in hindsight seem sketchy and evasive, but nothing overt. IMO MOO

Sorry but IMO opinion if I were to hide a relationship, and change my name and not tell my children I would considering that as not being honest with my kids.. I am rather black or white with things like this.. open book always.. especially to my children…omitting.. is way to close to hiding truth JMO

hiding truth is close to dishonesty
Dishonesty is close to lying.

Fine fine line.

So IMO Marion lied to her family by not telling them she had changed her name.

based on behaviour leading up to going… I question if there’s truth in the postcards.. truth in the phone call.. all of it and that’s because of ‘omitting’ important information.. gawd it was a name change that’s huge way more than just omitting

 

[JayJayJay]

Sorry but IMO opinion if I were to hide a relationship, and change my name and not tell my children I would considering that as not being honest with my kids.. I am rather black or white with things like this.. open book always.. especially to my children…omitting.. is way to close to hiding truth JMO

hiding truth is close to dishonesty
Dishonesty is close to lying.

Fine fine line.

So IMO Marion lied to her family by not telling them she had changed her name.

based on behaviour leading up to going… I question if there’s truth in the postcards.. truth in the phone call.. all of it and that’s because of ‘omitting’ important information.. gawd it was a name change that’s huge way more than just omitting

I agree, very significant

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

From my notes (but no image)...This is the text I have for the Postcard August 7 (not those attached to your post which I do have as postmarked 7 July)

The strand, Winchelsea postcard sent from Tunbridge Wells 7 August 1997

Sister dear “Hi” hope you and the family are well. I’m having a ball. England is so beautiful and so much to see,do, explore, learn, eat and op shops galore. I say to myself, where’s Leep? Good bargains too. It's sad because I can’t possibly buy one more thing. Talk about shop till you drop. I’m totally in my element. Beautiful gardens, weather’s been fine, Wearing shorts. Delayed my Orient trip till late August, first available rebooking due to earlier rain and floods in Germany. I don’t want to leave The UK just yet. Heaps of private schools. Could’ve had a job at a local village school, relief but not ready yet. Lovely families in old oast houses I’ve stayed with and b&bs. Met a Dutch dentist and a lady called Maz. Love you heaps M

Was it you @Lord Peter Flimsy that posted this text and the postcard image previously?

I did post the text from the letter and postcards but not the 2 latest postcards one of which you quote above. The reference to the German floods seems to prove Marion was still in the UK in later July so the postmark is probably correct. When it was actually posted is anyone’s guess?

So wish Marion had quoted the name of the little village school. Surely it couldn’t be where FdeH’s son went in Burwash around 1984 to 1986? While he is a bumbling con-artist I can’t believe he would be that brazen.

 

[ruby925]

I think I’ve said this before but I really think the Aug 7 postcard is dated July 7…it just has all the same markings as the postcard dated July 7. The Jul part is hard to see so could be so light on the other one that it looked like Aug

I agree, I thought they were both dated 7July. Also, I had another look at the Orient Express, unlikely to have been ex Amsterdam as not mentioned in any routeings, but the OE name had a convoluted history with different businesses involved. The heavy floods in Europe could have disrupted the service. Maybe MB was originally due to meet RB in Amsterdam on 15Jul to then depart on the OE ex Paris?
Edit: Sorry, catching up and just realised this has all been said already

 

[BonnieB]

Sorry but IMO opinion if I were to hide a relationship, and change my name and not tell my children I would considering that as not being honest with my kids.. I am rather black or white with things like this.. open book always.. especially to my children…omitting.. is way to close to hiding truth JMO

hiding truth is close to dishonesty
Dishonesty is close to lying.

Fine fine line
So IMO Marion lied to her family by not telling them she had changed her name.

based on behaviour leading up to going… I question if there’s truth in the postcards.. truth in the phone call.. all of it and that’s because of ‘omitting’ important information.. gawd it was a name change that’s huge way more than just omitting

I can understand Marion's initial non-disclosure about a man she randomly met in the coffee shop of the arts centre. If RB had spent enough time with Marion before she next caught up with Sally, his con would have already sucked Marion in; He tells her "no-one can know I am in Australia" for whatever important reason he invented.
That's how the con begins with the victim weighing up betraying a secret trust and being open with family. Then the love bombing begins.