Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #14

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

Those tea chests are now intriguing me after the latest podcast. It would appear he managed to get hold of much of Marion’s cash from her house sale, but how would he sell on Marion’s more valuable items which he no doubt separated from stuff of little value to him? Are some of these items in his home (I assume LE have done a full search but no mention at the inquest), did he try to sell them on in Australia, store them somewhere or did he ship them abroad or was their value not worth the cost/hassle of that?

 

[ruby925]

Those tea chests are now intriguing me after the latest podcast. It would appear he managed to get hold of much of Marion’s cash from her house sale, but how would he sell on Marion’s more valuable items which he no doubt separated from stuff of little value to him? Are some of these items in his home (I assume LE have done a full search but no mention at the inquest), did he try to sell them on in Australia, store them somewhere or did he ship them abroad or was their value not worth the cost/hassle of that?

Is this an invented scenario by RB to add another man into MB's life ie the pilot in uniform (!) and/or pre-explain any forensic evidence that might be found to link MB to his residence? The whole tea chests full of books thing seems unlikely..so heavy..for MB to buy a school, which is an absurd notion IMO.

 

[BonnieB]

In the cold light of today, it is easy to look at MB's behaviour as being devious and dishonest, co-erced or not. At the time, MB may have felt she was on a big romantic adventure, finding love, a whole new start. She would not have wanted anyone, including family, to put a dampener on that, roll their eyes at her, disapprove or take any of that joy or excitement away IMO. I have friends who have kept relationships secret for months, until they were established and the friends were more confident that things were working out.. I think this is quite common in people with 'life baggage'.

Absolutely agree. The relationship with RB didn't happen overnight; it was 3 months before Marion changed her name. Three months of expert grooming.
I met my partner through Fb, then we talked regularly by phone until 3 months later we met in person. I didn't tell my adult children immediately either. Unfortunately, Marion was dealing with a con-man who coerced her and took advantage of her vulnerabilities. When she spoke of "giving Glover ammunition" regarding the school scales, it sounded to me like RB had convinced Marion that Glover was out to get her; that her good reputation was about to be in tatters. Her resignation was then easy to arrange.
I firmly believe that Marion expected to be able to 'announce' her whirlwind romance & marriage within weeks and that she & her new husband would be attending Sally's wedding. Yes, Marion made some foolish and unwise decisions from our perspective but we aren't under his coercive control.

 

[BonnieB]

Is this an invented scenario by RB to add another man into MB's life ie the pilot in uniform (!) and/or pre-explain any forensic evidence that might be found to link MB to his residence? The whole tea chests full of books thing seems unlikely..so heavy..for MB to buy a school, which is an absurd notion IMO.

IMO Absolutely invented! At first I thought it might be to explain items seen at his residence but he testified the tea chests were sealed with metal bands and couldn't be opened. The only other reason I can imagine for this fantasy is to introduce the man in uniform who was last seen with Marion. As you said @ruby925 absurd!

 

[BonnieB]

Those tea chests are now intriguing me after the latest podcast. It would appear he managed to get hold of much of Marion’s cash from her house sale, but how would he sell on Marion’s more valuable items which he no doubt separated from stuff of little value to him? Are some of these items in his home (I assume LE have done a full search but no mention at the inquest), did he try to sell them on in Australia, store them somewhere or did he ship them abroad or was their value not worth the cost/hassle of that?

The shipping container filled with Marion's antiques and valuable items has never been seen after it left her home. I noted there were questions at the inquest about specific items; a TV unit, dining table, collectible porcelain figurines, dinner set, record collection etc. Also, there were the artworks by Norman Lindsay and the Boyds, all of which seem to have disappeared without a trace. If LE have been able to trace even one of these artworks back to RB it will be enough IMO. I'm sure he has a little black book of 'fences' for his 'acquired' goods. Hopefully one of them will be enticed by a $500,000 reward.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

The shipping container filled with Marion's antiques and valuable items has never been seen after it left her home. I noted there were questions at the inquest about specific items; a TV unit, dining table, collectible porcelain figurines, dinner set, record collection etc. Also, there were the artworks by Norman Lindsay and the Boyds, all of which seem to have disappeared without a trace. If LE have been able to trace even one of these artworks back to RB it will be enough IMO. I'm sure he has a little black book of 'fences' for his 'acquired' goods. Hopefully one of them will be enticed by a $500,000 reward.

I'm intrigued @BonnieB what does 'fences' mean in this context?

 

[BonnieB]

I'm intrigued @BonnieB what does 'fences' mean in this context?

Lol, A 'fence' is a person who knowingly buys stolen goods to resell.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Haha, had no idea, thank you!

From wiki: The fence acts as a middleman between thieves and the eventual buyers of stolen goods.

Yes, hopefully a fence will speak up and take the reward!

 

[Deleted member 249471]

I just read in my notes that Marion wasn't shy about her boyfriends. She was open about making them a part of her life, and comfortable introducing them to her family.

Some people are more private about these things or prefer to wait for certain milestones before coming out as a couple. But she really didn't seem hung up on this kind of thing, the opposite. Marion moved Barter in with her and the kids after just a few months.

It's possible she changed. But it' also possible she didn't change - that she was thrilled and excited to reveal this great new man to her family and friends, and was sad to have to keep it a secret.

Given that her new man was a conman (MOO) I'm inclined to believe he was the one who wanted to keep it hidden. I doubt he was keen for Marion to tell everyone about him.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

Once again I was underwhelmed by the latest podcast episode.

Here's one thing I heard: RB said he thought the tea chests held teacher supplies Marion was shipping to the UK!!! Well, howdydo, how would ANYONE have that idea about a woman going on a vacation to UK? Once again, he drops fact or clue into his lies. He knows Marion was interested in UK teaching because he fed that to her.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I don't know what happened but in the last week it finally clicked for me.
It doesn't matter what Marion said. She was being coerced by a lifelong conman on a mission.
She may or may not have believed what she said. That's beside the point.
He had a specific aim and a job to complete. Which he did not reveal to her.
He was dictating the events. All of them.
He was there on business. He wouldn't allow a slip up because that means getting caught.
The whole thing was highly controlled.
Her words and actions are just what he wanted her to say and do, so he could complete the job without getting caught. IMO

I absolutely agree with you, every word.

Having pondered Marion's 'part' in all this - the only thing she did was believe and trust someone who lied to her. Sadly, that happens to millions of men, women, and children, all over the world. As we know from this forum and the international news every day. Some people who are innocent of mind and pure of heart are the most easily controlled as they believe in authority and doing what they're instructed.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I agree RB was pulling all the strings, but I don't see him as some master criminal. IMO he is just a chancer, never worked in his life, small time con man. Early on, he realised by continually changing his name and using aliases, he could stay one step ahead of the authorities and he could lie low in a different part of the world when the heat was on. This pattern has remained with him, at least until he stopped travelling. I don't think the forum rules will allow me to say what I think about RB...
If the end game (as far as MB was concerned) was to steal all her money and disappear, then it worked. Whatever the plan, did it include MB 'disappearing' for ever too? That is a big leap.

I agree with this but also add on an extra bit -

Use her as a bit part for some other end goal + steal all her money + disappear.

I wish we had a far more detailed account from JO as I would like to know every minute detail - I'm sure police know a lot more, right? He's got a pattern.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Here's one thing I heard: RB said he thought the tea chests held teacher supplies Marion was shipping to the UK!!! Well, howdydo, how would ANYONE have that idea about a woman going on a vacation to UK? Once again, he drops fact or clue into his lies. He knows Marion was interested in UK teaching because he fed that to her.

Indeed the truth is in all his lies and every single word he utters - including the stammering.

As if ANYONE would be thinking of shipping teaching materials to the other side of the world when they haven't even been to England for 30 years and were planning a trip on the Orient Express.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Well he was asked directly if he had married Marion. I don't believe it was a legal marriage though. So my answer is yes.

If they got 'married' (obviously in a manner that wasn't above board), it must have been in Australia before she changed her name. OR - perhaps he promised her they would be married overseas and persuaded her to do the name change on her Australian passport ahead of time for ease of the process?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Was RB a mastermind or just a two-bit hustler?
I genuinely don't have an opinion on that. Hahaha, but you just reminded me of Frank Abagnale Jr from Catch Me if You Can.

We all know the skilled cons he pulled off over many years with the FBI hunting him down. He wrote about it, it got turned into a movie and musical, then he ended up working for the FBI to help stop fraud, right?

Apparently not. That was also a con. Turns out he was a bad small-time fraudster that got caught early on. But as a narcissist, he needed notoriety and for others to see him as a genius. So he lied (shocker) and his biggest con was convincing the world he was much better at it, lol.

It's interesting that conmen don't typically get caught or do a lot of jail time because their whole business plan is about convincing others to hand over their own assets.

Whereas master criminals do blatantly illegal things and avoid getting caught. I honestly don't know the fulcrum point of when to start calling a fraudster a mastermind or master criminal. How many laws they break? How long they get away with it? How many people they fool? How much money they get out of it? How many people they kill? Or how little jail time they do in comparison to how many scams they complete?

The fact RB hasn't been investigated over MB until now (or deported) suggests he was successful at it. I personally don't think he was part of a crime syndicate. But he may have known or been involved with others criminals at times. IMO he definitely broke laws and did unlawful things (immigration lies, tax fraud and multiple IDs). And the fact he did jail time does make him convicted criminal.

What do you consider a master criminal? A mobster? A double agent? Peter Foster? Dr Death? The Twinder Swindler?

I guess my definition of a master criminal would be:

Someone who does exactly what they want, despite it being unlawful and immoral / unethical, and never gets troubled by anyone, detected, or held to account in their lifetime.

So, I guess RB must think he's right up there if he uses my definition.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

I still wonder how this guy still has so little money after a lifetime of criminality. I still wonder if the answer may lay in gambling on horses. Would I be right in thinking the Gold Coast Turf Club racecourse is only a few minutes away from the Southport School?

Also his story about horses on his trip to Europe in 1997. Being in Nice was he actually going to the Hippodrome de la Côte d’Azur in Cagnes-sur-Mer on the French Riveira which has very popular Trotting racing in July each year?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I think there are quite a few of us with the same opinion. Marion MUST have believed his spiel and agreed to act accordingly otherwise his scam could not have worked. I think I posted a theory on 3rd May along these lines. Yes, he orchestrated the whole event from go to whoa and the more I think about it, Marion's demise had to be factored into the plan. She would have known far too much to let go.
IMO it was pure luck that he evaded suspicion for 20 odd years. He was aware of Marion's family situation; that she had children, parents, friends and siblings. He was aware that she would be missed but he relied on her name change to mask her movements, hoping any search would be concentrated overseas.
It was just luck in his favour that police did not take Sally and her father seriously in October 97; he could not have known that. The deed poll name change WAS on record so was her passport and the dentist who signed off on her ID. A further search on the Remakel surname would have revealed she returned & RB's Qld. drivers licence etc. etc. Small loose ends, but they were there.
My biggest question is...were there others who simply disappeared?

If Marion was the first person who successfully 'disappeared' for RB then yes, my belief is that he would have then gone on to disappear more and more women.

It is likely she wasn't the first IMO and if so, she sure as heck will not have been the last. That's pretty terrifying to think about.

RB is a predator and he was playing with an endless pool of prey = 'there's thousands of them on the internet' in his very own words IIRC.

 

[KinseyFan]

Those tea chests are now intriguing me after the latest podcast. It would appear he managed to get hold of much of Marion’s cash from her house sale, but how would he sell on Marion’s more valuable items which he no doubt separated from stuff of little value to him? Are some of these items in his home (I assume LE have done a full search but no mention at the inquest), did he try to sell them on in Australia, store them somewhere or did he ship them abroad or was their value not worth the cost/hassle of that?

Abroad? Assuming they wouldn’t be traced back to him? Obvs didn’t factor in today’s internet. Along with the reward.

 

[KinseyFan]

Is this an invented scenario by RB to add another man into MB's life ie the pilot in uniform (!) and/or pre-explain any forensic evidence that might be found to link MB to his residence? The whole tea chests full of books thing seems unlikely..so heavy..for MB to buy a school, which is an absurd notion IMO.

Agree- absurd. Like pursuing a career as an international belly dancer at age 50.

 

[ruby925]

I still wonder how this guy still has so little money after a lifetime of criminality. I still wonder if the answer may lay in gambling on horses. Would I be right in thinking the Gold Coast Turf Club racecourse is only a few minutes away from the Southport School?

Also his story about horses on his trip to Europe in 1997. Being in Nice was he actually going to the Hippodrome de la Côte d’Azur in Cagnes-sur-Mer on the French Riveira which has very popular Trotting racing in July each year?

Well DDH said in evidence he didn't have many big wins..so the proceeds of his crimes may have been gambled away as it didn't seem to pay for a lavish lifestyle (apart from a lot of air fares..)