Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #14

[Carfrae]

Indeed the truth is in all his lies and every single word he utters - including the stammering.

As if ANYONE would be thinking of shipping teaching materials to the other side of the world when they haven't even been to England for 30 years and were planning a trip on the Orient Express.

Also how useful would four tea chests of teaching materials even be? I mean, tea chests aren’t that big and if it was text books they would be for an Australian not British curriculum so of limited use. It makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[BonnieB]

H'mm, I'm thinking some kind of blackmailing saga, craftiness at the hands of RB to make it look like it's coming from another party, per chance, from TSS? There was something she wanted to tell her mother, we heard this from Bronwen, but apparently she didn't end up telling her. What on earth was it? All roads lead to RB as far as I can tell, and Taskforce Jurunga will figure it out, they'll get there in the end and more power to 'em, hey.

Yes, I agree, the issues at TSS were seized upon by RB and amplified to form part of his con. Marion said as much in her letter to Sally about the scales - "don't give Glover any ammunition".
The blackmail aspect is interesting; it introduces fear, need for secrecy, haste, escape plans - all the elements of a good con. Good luck Jurunga because I doubt he'll ever come clean. IMO

 

[HinterlandObserver]

IMO I’d be interested to see the results of an audit on the son and daughters finances.
Sure he may have lost a lot through gambling, but paying for uni, buying property in Federal/Byron bay hinterland, weddings overseas..
I’m still intrigued by the daughter being high up in a travel company too. Was is all daddy’s trips overseas that inspired that career path or because he influenced her into it as he needed access to staff perks for other reasons?
All IMOO.

 

[KateM]

I agree. I don't believe anything RB says. Or DdH because (whether she's a victim or accomplice) she's clearly under RB's coercive control. Therefore, with that logic, I also can't believe a word RB might've coerced Marion into saying during their entire relationship.

The Puppet Master and Bad Vegan and just two examples of similar behaviour, where victims turned accomplices would say ridiculously untrue things to everyone around them, including their most loved ones, because the conman coerced them to.

I mean... he got her to quit her job, sell her house, get a secret passport in a new name, and fib on official immigration documents. So telling a few more stories in postcards and a phone call is peanuts. I believe MB was knee deep in the con by Aug 1997.

It does not reflect her moral compass or who she was as a mother. It was not her fault. It's his. IMO

As Sally said, her mother made some unwise choices, but that doesn't take away from who Marion was, both as a person and a mother. The coercive control that the narcissist/psychopath orchestrates on their victims is highly dangerous and sadly Marion paid for it in the most terrible way...

 

[KateM]

Those tea chests are now intriguing me after the latest podcast. It would appear he managed to get hold of much of Marion’s cash from her house sale, but how would he sell on Marion’s more valuable items which he no doubt separated from stuff of little value to him? Are some of these items in his home (I assume LE have done a full search but no mention at the inquest), did he try to sell them on in Australia, store them somewhere or did he ship them abroad or was their value not worth the cost/hassle of that?

The Norman Lindsay would have been very difficult and risky to sell. Did Marion also have another painting?

 

[KateM]

I agree RB was pulling all the strings, but I don't see him as some master criminal. IMO he is just a chancer, never worked in his life, small time con man. Early on, he realised by continually changing his name and using aliases, he could stay one step ahead of the authorities and he could lie low in a different part of the world when the heat was on. This pattern has remained with him, at least until he stopped travelling. I don't think the forum rules will allow me to say what I think about RB...
If the end game (as far as MB was concerned) was to steal all her money and disappear, then it worked. Whatever the plan, did it include MB 'disappearing' for ever too? That is a big leap.

Well I know that conmen may not usually kill their victims, but would he have really left his wife and kids for MB? What was he going to do once he got all of her money, break up with her? Her demise was either premeditated, or MB woke up to him, or found something out, which caused a huge argument and ultimately her end...

 

[mishy66]

He began his career as a petty thief in his early teens and he's probably not done an honest days work since his twenties; always on the lookout for victims, scams and easy money. I have no doubt he has many contacts in the underworld of undesirables but he's no 'mastermind'.

His wife and children are just another of his scams, a 'respectable' base for his illegal activities; he dragged his family along the entire East coast of Australia dodging the authorities and irate victims. He cared not one jot about their well being or the shame he brought on his children during the inquest.

He's a sociopathic liar and totally lacking in any moral compass. He has a hugely inflated ego and absolutely everything is about him; his comfort, his desires, his pleasures, his safety and his freedom.

I don't know how you categorize someone like him...
IMO, He's a career criminal of the lowest human order.

Yep agree. I posted something along the same lines.

 

[BonnieB]

Hope all the mum's out there had a great Mother's Day!

 

[mishy66]

Well DDH said in evidence he didn't have many big wins..so the proceeds of his crimes may have been gambled away as it didn't seem to pay for a lavish lifestyle (apart from a lot of air fares..)

Personally I don't believe there was no money and they were living frugally.
I think the gambling was his sideline as was using the Casinos for the money laundering. I also believe there are properties tied up with him and his dealings with scamming vulnerable women is just the tip of the ice berg.

The tea chests were just a way to introduce another character to deflect his involvement, there are no tea chests. Just a huge shipping container placed somewhere safe for him to peruse at a later date.
I also believe had JO not arrived home and surprised him that her contents would have also been loaded onto a shipping container and moved to a safe location for a later date.
JMO

 

[BonnieB]

Personally I don't believe there was no money and they were living frugally.
I think the gambling was his sideline as was using the Casinos for the money laundering. I also believe there are properties tied up with him and his dealings with scamming vulnerable women is just the tip of the ice berg.

The tea chests were just a way to introduce another character to deflect his involvement, there are no tea chests. Just a huge shipping container placed somewhere safe for him to peruse at a later date.
I also believe had JO not arrived home and surprised him that her contents would have also been loaded onto a shipping container and moved to a safe location for a later date.

IMO you hit the nail on the head @mishy66. The only thing they couldn't have was a permanent home. they tried a couple of times but selling up to move just isn't fast enough for a quick getaway. That's why they rent.
I bet LE has dug a tunnel through Renov Pubs and there'd be one or two covert bank boxes and accounts ("I only have one bank account; always same bank") to keep a close watch on too. Nothing will be left uninvestigated now. Proceeds of crime. Ha ha, then he might REALLY know what it's like to live on a pension!

 

[KateM]

IMO you hit the nail on the head @mishy66. The only thing they couldn't have was a permanent home. they tried a couple of times but selling up to move just isn't fast enough for a quick getaway. That's why they rent.
I bet LE has dug a tunnel through Renov Pubs and there'd be one or two covert bank boxes and accounts ("I only have one bank account; always same bank") to keep a close watch on too. Nothing will left uninvestigated now. Proceeds of crime. Ha ha, then he might REALLY know what it's like to live on a pension!

His wife came across as pretty simple, but she must have some idea of him obtaining $$ by fraud, even if she may not know how, or how much?

 

[mishy66]

His wife came across as pretty simple, but she must have some idea of him obtaining $$ by fraud, even if she may not know how, or how much?

well seeing as she was with him when he was arrested, I am pretty sure she knows much more than she has let on.
JMO

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

Just a thought but was one of the reasons FdeH and his wife came to the UK was to have a free operation on the NHS in Tunbridge Wells on his young daughter (born 1981 in Luxembourg) hernia? This guy really doesn’t like spending his ‘own’ money.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

Personally I don't believe there was no money and they were living frugally.
I think the gambling was his sideline as was using the Casinos for the money laundering. I also believe there are properties tied up with him and his dealings with scamming vulnerable women is just the tip of the ice berg.

The tea chests were just a way to introduce another character to deflect his involvement, there are no tea chests. Just a huge shipping container placed somewhere safe for him to peruse at a later date.
I also believe had JO not arrived home and surprised him that her contents would have also been loaded onto a shipping container and moved to a safe location for a later date.
JMO

love you dearly, @mishy66, but I don't agree I think he is a loser, economically and personally. He gambled everything and ultimately lost everything. Those kind never save or stash or invest. They always take a win and gamble again. The B's couldn't even keep a property. RB seems to be a gambler/con artist, not a proper criminal. Don't have any proof except his braggadocio. Real, successful criminals keep their mouths shut. Losers brag.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

I tend to agree @MrsEmmaPeel
The man was mostly living off his three pensions. Pensions in Aus are very little to raise a family on.

I feel he really needed those pensions. Because forcing your family to like you're an invalid pensioner, to hide the fact you're wealthy and successful, kind of defeats the purpose of being wealthy and successful.

If he was successful at getting money thought cons, and knew how to launder it, then the pension cover story wouldn't be needed. He could set up a successful company that ran at a loss, launder it, and do all the things wealthy people do to avoid revealing actual income and paying taxes.

In this way, he'd still be able to hide money AND live a certain lifestyle - own a house or two, several decent cars, private school for kids, family holidays, etc. Which he couldn't do while maintaining the pension cover story.

Just theorising on his economic situation... his pensions would've barely funded his family life, so whatever money he got through cons would've gone to the household, and for swimming training for example (can't afford that on a pension!).

With the rest spent towards his next cons... materials to forge, flights and overseas accommodation, etc. He spent a lot to con, but how much did he actually get back?

This might be more about his need to con rather than his skill at it. He seems like a guy that keeps trying because he's certain the next one will be a winner - a true gambler. MOO.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Just to play devil's advocate... if he was successful at the cons and laundering... what was he doing with it? What was his plan? Where are those properties? How do they improve his family life and circumstance? What is the point of them?

 

[BonnieB]

Just to play devil's advocate... if he was successful at the cons and laundering... what was he doing with it? What was his plan? Where are those properties? How do they improve his family life and circumstance? What is the point of them?

I don't pretend to understand the web RB has created for money laundering but a man does not hold shell companies in various aliases in Belgium (and possibly elsewhere) for 54 years for no reason. He certainly understands the international tax laws. Nor does he open and close multiple bank security envelopes/boxes in various names unless he's hiding assets. There is no doubt he also holds offshore bank accounts.
If, as some theorize, he is just a petty scammer with a gambling problem, there would be no need for such elaborate schemes.
You pose some good questions. Has he been 'employed' as a full-time thief for 60 years? Has the Australian Government just been 'topping up' his coffers during slow periods in his other activities? His children didn't go without in their education, sporting and adult lives. He seemed to be able to indulge his passions for coins, art, travel, women & horses. Was DdH a gambler too? What were her motivations to remain in this relationship? IMO there is a team of investigators following his money trail as we speak.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Agree we know for sure he got SOME money through cons. $30k from GGB and his rap sheet in NAA file suggest his behaviour IS motivated by obtaining MONEY by extortion and not through gainful employment.

They weren't living the real 'pensioner household' lifestyle.
There was definitely additional money coming in - he admits it!
But they weren't living luxuriously either, like Melissa Caddick, or an upper middle class or rich family.

...they rented an average house, the kids went to public school, the cars weren't new and they don't currently have their own home or live in retirement village - they live with daughter.

The police can easily establish these things from interview with kids - how did you live? Was money tight? Did you go on holidays or was it just dad? Did you work while studying? Did dad pay for university and the start-up for your business?

If this goes to trial I will be keen to hear his financials!

 

[Deleted member 249471]

A google search says:

A pensioner and carer in Aus might get a total of around $40k a year, plus a little extra for having 2 kids until they are 18.

And these are average yearly incomes:
Lower-middle class...$32,048 – $53,413
Middle class………......$53,413 – $106,827
Upper-middle class...$106,827 – $373,894
Rich………………….......$373,894 +

 

[JayJayJay]

I've been reading the 173 page file on RB via the Immigration records. Firstly, I don't understand why he was not stripped of his Aus citizenship and deported in the 1980s. Secondly, his rap sheet for forgery, theft, impersonation and stripping people of their assets is incredibly long and that's just the crimes he was caught for and convicted of. That surely must be the tip of the iceberg. Would Marion have somehow gotten wind of it via some research overseas and told RB, and then RB panicked and then cleaned her out?