Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #14

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  • #901
There’s still an elderly gent with a very unique name, Gerardus Bakkenhoven, who has been missing from Iluka since 2014 that popped into my head when I heard Iluka brought up again.
The info on his disappearance is here: Gerardus BAKKENHOVEN. It would be interesting to see if he ever had any connections to coin’s or antiques or RB in general.
Two other missing persons that come to mind are:

Penelope Smith missing since Monday, November 7, 2005 from Toowong Qld. born 1948

Jennifer McDonald b:1945 Was last seen leaving an address in Neutral Bay NSW with some possessions packed in her car for a planned move. Jennifer’s vehicle was located parked in Vaucluse, NSW, with some more personal possessions located in a nearby park. Last seen on 10 November 2012
 
  • #902
Two other missing persons that come to mind are:

Penelope Smith missing since Monday, November 7, 2005 from Toowong Qld. born 1948

Jennifer McDonald b:1945 Was last seen leaving an address in Neutral Bay NSW with some possessions packed in her car for a planned move. Jennifer’s vehicle was located parked in Vaucluse, NSW, with some more personal possessions located in a nearby park. Last seen on 10 November 2012
I’m not familiar with either of those ladies cases, do they fit RBs pattern?
There’s another woman from Ballina who has been missing since 2015 called Ellen Wilson but from what is reported, she wasn’t effluent, was renting a unit when she disappeared with her car and was on cctv at a local pub known to be a bit rough at the time (which was burned down not long after) the night before she went missing.
The only thing that also pings her to me is that the people I’ve spoken to that knew her said she had a boyfriend no one had ever met, wasn’t reported on and that police had never allegedly spoken to.
I have no links between the gent I mentioned and RB aside from Iluka.
I guess I’m more bringing them up in case there may be that 1 in 1000000 chance something is related. Though most likely not.
 
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  • #903
I’m not familiar with either of those ladies cases, do they fit RBs pattern?
There’s another woman from Ballina who has been missing since 2015 called Ellen Wilson but from what is reported, she wasn’t effluent, was renting a unit when she disappeared with her car and was on cctv at a local pub known to be a bit rough at the time (which was burned down not long after) the night before she went missing.
The only thing that also pings her to me is that the people I’ve spoken to that knew her said he had a boyfriend no one had ever met, wasn’t reported on and that police had never allegedly spoken to.
I have no links between the gent I mentioned and RB aside from Iluka.
I guess I’m more bringing them up in case there may be that 1 in 1000000 chance something is related. Though most likely not.
Yes, I looked at Ellen too but she doesn't fit with the general pattern, does she? No wealth to speak of.

The elderly man from Iluka is interesting. He would have been around 70 years old in 1997. I wonder what he was doing back then?
2013 Sally launched her Facebook page
2013 Facebook page (Clark Hunter) msg's Sally to say "Natalia is alive but you won't see her again"
2014 Mr. AKA changes his name to RB
2014 Gerardus BAKKENHOVEN (a man with a Dutch name) goes missing from Iluka
2021 Iluka is mentioned by RB for no apparent reason when he gave his first statement to police.

Just another coincidence I suppose!
 
  • #904
Yes, I looked at Ellen too but she doesn't fit with the general pattern, does she? No wealth to speak of.

The elderly man from Iluka is interesting. He would have been around 70 years old in 1997. I wonder what he was doing back then?
2013 Sally launched her Facebook page
2013 Facebook page (Clark Hunter) msg's Sally to say "Natalia is alive but you won't see her again"
2014 Mr. AKA changes his name to RB
2014 Gerardus BAKKENHOVEN (a man with a Dutch name) goes missing from Iluka
2021 Iluka is mentioned by RB for no apparent reason when he gave his first statement to police.

Just another coincidence I suppose!
That’s right, though Ellen moved here after caring for her mother who passed away. She lived frugally but could have just not advertised if she’d received an inheritance or something.
In any case it’s worth the real clever people here using their super powers to check any connection with RB and the older gent at least.
It’s so far fetched it’s possible.
 
  • #905
Two other missing persons that come to mind are:

Penelope Smith missing since Monday, November 7, 2005 from Toowong Qld. born 1948

Jennifer McDonald b:1945 Was last seen leaving an address in Neutral Bay NSW with some possessions packed in her car for a planned move. Jennifer’s vehicle was located parked in Vaucluse, NSW, with some more personal possessions located in a nearby park. Last seen on 10 November 2012
Jennifer McDonald has also been on my radar too.
 
  • #906
I'm really fond of the reader and can only hear AKA as the reader's voice. But then I love plays and dialogue and authentic voices. I'm sure I'm a minority on here. What's important about the accent is that it helps us remember how AKA used it to his advantage in his crimes. He could, knowingly or not, obsure information easily-- and it gave him a built in excuse. "Forgive me, I do not know ze word you use" etc. The accent also reminds us of the power of a foreign accent in seduction. Sad but true. Mark Twain wrote a cool short story on this very theme. Americans SWOON for British accents.

By using a reader's accent, we are constantly reminded what the court and judge heard. THIS seems very important to me. To have a straight AUS voice reading it would not be representative. Always, we must analyze what is lie and what is mistake; what is calculated and what is unfortunately misunderstood.

I noticed in the newest podcast they defend the readers. They are not actors. They are not paid.
Interesting comments you make. I'm not too keen on the voices. If they are not being paid for their work that is a bad thing.
 
  • #907
I think there’s a lot of investigative work to be done on RB yet, before anything to do with Marion can be pinned on him. It sounds like police are on that (I hope). Of the two women that came forward, it’s interesting that both were failed attempts in a way. JO thwarted whatever he had planned by arriving back earlier than expected. GGB ended up taking him on by going to the police in spite of his coercion, and they took out an AVO on her behalf. Although he managed to get money from her beforehand if I recall correctly.


Although like others I don’t quite understand what he had planned with JO’s property To quickly sell her property and disappear? But there were some real links between him and JO; unlike with Marion and GGB, RB had an acquaintance with JO/JO’s ex prior to seeking a relationship with her. Right? Both GGB and JO were after Marion so that is interesting too; with JO he cut some corners by pursuing a victim within his sphere, however remotely, and he overplayed his hand with GGB with the threats and he moved into her property instead of maintaining a fully separate living arrangement. It just makes me wonder about other women. A pattern more like Marion? Or more like the other two?
The plans failed with JO & partly with GGB but they lived to tell the tale. I do wonder how many MBs are out there (across different continents) that haven’t been that lucky?

When you have fleeced your victim of everything then what do you do when they realise and have no alternative but to go to the Police or their family etc? Changing identity can only go so far when you live in the same country as your victim.
 
  • #908
The plans failed with JO & partly with GGB but they lived to tell the tale. I do wonder how many MBs are out there (across different continents) that haven’t been that lucky?

When you have fleeced your victim of everything then what do you do when they realise and have no alternative but to go to the Police or their family etc? Changing identity can only go so far when you live in the same country as your victim.
My thoughts exactly Lord Peter.

In GGB's case, he quickly found that his spiel about selling her house and buying an apartment in Paris wasn't working so he reverted to a business partnership con. Once he realized $30,000 was all he was likely to get, he improvised a blackmail attempt and threatened to damage her business. He turned nasty! And she retaliated with an AVO (too close to a jail cell for comfort)

JO was easier, she fell for the love bombing line immediately, signed the POA, handed him jewellery and agreed to the OS trip. It was like taking candy from a baby. So why didn't he just abandon her in a hotel in UK, call her with that BS story that he was in hospital and tell her to wait for him? It would have given him heaps more time. Why did he send her to a relo?
Did he have a change of heart?
Was the first plan that JO would have an "accident" and never return? There are a lot of cliffs in Dover!
Were there too many potential witnesses (Mike & Bazza) to risk it?
Or was it just sloppy planning?

Andre Flamme was just brazen theft. He didn't count on the daughter finding his son & daughter so easily online or that she would write to the Australian Embassy. His theft thwarted, he returned (most) of the coins to prevent further action.
And speaking of theft, he apparently will steal anything of value to him, given an opportunity...
GGB's bedside book, coins and her entire collection of Jacques Brel cassettes!
JO's silver necklace, diamond rings and paperwork.

So, given that these three scams were committed AFTER Marion and with hindsight, what happened in her case and how many others were before her?
 
  • #909
It is ironic that the picture Sally gave Joni which fell off the wall was of an area near Michaelskirche, Rue Sigefroi where the St. Michael's Church is between the Casemates du Bock and old town Luxembourg. His apartment just near there.

This is a 5 minute walk to 5 Place d'Armes - the place of Sallys picture which also fell off the wall and is also up on TLV FB page today.



From that building you can look across to Cafe De Paris.

This is the square where those places meet, including the cafe he sits at while writing the letter to Monique - Cafe De Paris.






Marion is leaving her breadcrumbs!
 
  • #910
Perhaps Marion was upset that Sally hadn’t deposited the car money, not because she wanted the money from Sally, but because she needed to keep the accounts under her Marion B name until Sally made the deposit so as not to raise concerns with Sally. After the car $ had been deposited, Marion would have been free to change the account name to Florabella Remakel name. Perhaps she was frustrated at Sally because she was under pressure by RB to change the account name.

interesting point you raise here
 
  • #911
Honestly, the TUH centre is pretty big with multiple practitioners and well frequented. In all my years going there, I never once saw any teacher colleagues or anyone I knew for that matter…but it is possible that MB would be wary of that. As for the staff…You didn’t always get to see the same person and they would really know little about your personal life or care. What I should have added was that if MB wanted new glasses she could have paid upfront and then claimed from TUH (thus avoiding the centre altogether).
Having said that though, I have thought of a counter to my own POV which was that, having arranged to go overseas for a long period of time, it was quite likely that she would have suspended her membership of the TUH for that time. I did that and it was easy to arrange. Logic dictates that she would have organised that so that she did not have to pay membership for services she wasn’t intending to use whilst out of the country. I can't recall the podcast or the inquest revealing whether that had been investigated. I can only recall one of the early episodes (I think) stating that LL had forwarded some of MB’s Mail to SL and that some correspondence from the health fund was amongst it?

The bigger motivation to avoid the TUH centre would be from someone who wasn’t MB as they wouldn’t be sure if she knew people there or not.
 
  • #912
That’s right, though Ellen moved here after caring for her mother who passed away. She lived frugally but could have just not advertised if she’d received an inheritance or something.
In any case it’s worth the real clever people here using their super powers to check any connection with RB and the older gent at least.
It’s so far fetched it’s possible.

Also, when it comes to someone looking to clone or steal identity, for whatever reason, it’s possible that personal wealth and assets are not vital so much as authentic documentation.

There is (or was) a whole slew of scams and frauds a person can commence in a fake identity.
 
  • #913
To get an IDL you need a Australian DL they use this to translate your licence status to international terminology. My guess is he made her an IDL as they are just cardboard, not hard to reproduce.

If she did obtain one via the RACV she would have had to have show her Aus drivers licence in the name FNMR - this could have been possible since the police missed the FR drivers licence (having claimed no one in aus had that name), and also claim Marion didn't have a valid DL in the name MB since moving to Queensland and giving up her NSW one. I don't believe that for a second, she wouldn't have been able to get insurance.

from the Home | Service NSW
An IDP is sometimes referred to as an international driving licence and is valid for 12 months. The IDP is not a standalone document – you need to carry your Australian driver licence with you at all times. Ensure your IDP allows you to drive or ride the vehicles you intend to use.

There was a lady on the FB page offer to explain the passport issuing process to SL, she worked in 1997 for multiple QL sites issuing passports. Was tempted to ask her to come and talk to us lol
Just a thought but maybe she didn’t need documents in name of FNMR…if she had official documents of her name change by deep poll, perhaps documents in name MB would continue to serve as identification for passport application (as it is the same person). After name change, there may be some time period by which your documents in previous name remain valid. For example, you’d have to at least be able to use the DL in your previous name to legally drive to the DL office & get a new DL.
 
  • #914
Mine come out just as blurry when I upload as a pic, I have tried snipping, not sure if its better ?

View attachment 350630
View attachment 350631
This makes me think he was not really that into MC and was just hoping to scam her. It’s ridiculous & over the top. I’d bet he had lots of ladies he sent letters to, just waiting for the perfect opportunity to take advantage. In fact, wouldn’t suprise me if there are multiple women who received same letter. Looks like he put a lot of effort into it.
 
  • #915
From Missing Person Marion Barters facebook page -

In 1980, up this lonely road was the "family business" in southern Luxembourg. It was a small building divided in two. One half lounge furniture, one half small electrical appliances.
Ric's wife, Diane, was the Managing Director for the "family business" in Belgium from 1977 & this included the subsidiary in Luxembourg from 1980. She didn't attend meetings as she was "unable to travel", her signature was absent from documents submitted to the business registers & she was not a signatory on the bank accounts. She was at her new home with a toddler & later another very young baby.
"Casselden : If I may just very briefly return to your time in Luxembourg. Were you working yourself during your stay in Luxembourg for that few years?
Diane : No, I had the two children who were young and I was just at home.
Casselden : Your understanding was that your husband, Ric, was managing a furniture business as part of the Belgium family?
Diane : Yep."
Secondly, the "family business" declared bankruptcy on 1st December, 1983 in Belgium. So, while his young family were nicely tucked away in the English countryside in Burwash, what exactly was Mr Blum doing all week in Continental Europe ? How was he filling in his time until they all returned back to Australia in 1985-86 and he became an invalid pensioner ?
"Casselden : How often would you go away for before you came back?
Ric : I used to go early in the week on like a Monday and come back at the end of the week, I’d spend the weekend and then I’d go back. I did that for three years except when I was going to Gatwick, like I said before, catch a plane to go to exhibition in , in other countries, you know, like Germany, Italy and etc.
Ric : ... and I was then in charge of running the
exhibition. We exhibited in London, I mean in Ireland, in Dublin, and in Scotland and in Paris, in London, in Geneva. I mean all those places."
If you're still with me & thinking about this arrangement, consider the above information in combination with the letter of "infatuation" Ric Blum wrote to Monique Cornelious sitting at the Le Café de Paris in Luxembourg City at this exact time in 1980, sipping his drink. While his new young Australian wife was at home in Itzig, Luxembourg with 3 year old & another baby on the way & Monique's home, where he wrote the second part of the letter, only a two minute walk up the road.
Read the below carefully ...
Casselden : Of all the cities, towns, villages and hamlets in the United Kingdom, why was Burwash chosen to relate to for such a period of time?
Diane de Hedervary : Cause I like the country, I just felt like being in the country. Also, being in England, I could drive which I didn't have when I was in Europe. I could speak the language better, manage - you know, it was - all those things, having some connection for me, for friendship and driving and, yeah, I've - that was the main reason and I - I mean, I like the countryside so we went there.
Think about this in terms of Janet Oldenburg's experience. Overlay it to what we know & suspect of Marion's experience.
Women in strange places, relying on & trusting one other.
More to come. Joni

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  • #916
interesting response - to the above

Is F. David R. Blum?
Missing Person Marion Barter
No, this is his brother Freddy David. R Blum resigned from the company in 1977, a few weeks after it was created. Cheers, Joni
 
  • #917
In English ..

This Capital is divided into 300 shares of one thousand francs each full subscribed and full
paid up which will be distributed among the partners in accordance with their contributions.
Name : Mrs Coppenolle Maria 100 shares
Mrs de Hedervary Diane 100 shares
Mr David Fredy
100 shares
This new division is managed and administered by Mrs. Diane de Hedervary residing at ----
designated as manager who enjoys vis-à-vis third parties the most extensive powers to contract on behalf of the company. And bind it for all acts and operations
falling within the corporate purpose without limitation.
Done in ---- on 31-5-80
For S.C. ----
F.David

1656655905874.png
 
  • #918
interesting response - to the above

Is F. David R. Blum?
Missing Person Marion Barter
No, this is his brother Freddy David. R Blum resigned from the company in 1977, a few weeks after it was created. Cheers, Joni
Always said there was two of them in this game.
 
  • #919
  • #920
what do you think of the claim that they are brothers not cousins
Well they've read the volumes and Joni seems happy to drip feed info, so can't go against what LE has found.

I'm still sticking with NOT brothers though.
 
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