Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #15

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  • #901
First time poster here but I've been following this case since June 2019 via the podcast and cannot believe the direction it has taken.

Sorry if this has been discussed before, I've not had the chance to read all the threads for this case yet, but but we know RB has multiple passports in various names and has travelled using documents that weren't in his current legal name. Is it possible he could have somehow gotten MB additional passport(s) not in the name of MB or FNMR? I just cannot wrap my head around the timing of MB's supposed reentry to Australia and the timing of the phonecall to SL and the postcards postmarked after this.
Welcome Astrach. I think this has been discussed before but not sure where it is on these threads. With RB he does tend to use the proper channels when it comes to legal documents even though his intentions are clearly criminal. For example with his passports, driving licence and Deed Polls they were all provided through each Governmental department and not bought or created on the black market.

Saying that could he have managed to get Marion another passport say in Europe? My feeling is it would be tricky and takes time. This guy moves fast when it comes to conning people and would he feel the need to change her name twice back in pre-Internet days?
 
  • #902
I’m struggling to find it but at the Inquest I’m fairly certain AC or BS went through the amount of RBs trips abroad each year according to his passports. Did anyone make a note of them? When was his last trip to Europe?
 
  • #903
  • #904
Can somebody please find the contents and date of the postcard MB sent which mentions Maz and the Dutch dentist? I thought she was going to go to Amsterdam with the Dutch dentist.
 

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  • #905
First time poster here but I've been following this case since June 2019 via the podcast and cannot believe the direction it has taken.

Sorry if this has been discussed before, I've not had the chance to read all the threads for this case yet, but but we know RB has multiple passports in various names and has travelled using documents that weren't in his current legal name. Is it possible he could have somehow gotten MB additional passport(s) not in the name of MB or FNMR? I just cannot wrap my head around the timing of MB's supposed reentry to Australia and the timing of the phonecall to SL and the postcards postmarked after this.

Hello and welcome. Good question you raise here and I have been wondering the same - there's no reason why RB couldn't have fabricated some story about him working as a secret agent or for an embassy and creating Marion multiple passports.

Also, to go further, to what extent do we know that Marion actually 'changed her name' and was aware that she had changed her name so much as RB said he would need her to travel on a different passport for 'security reasons' (the FNMR one) that he had no doubt filed all the paperwork for. Did Marion actually think she'd changed her entire name!?? She seems to me like someone who, if so, would have immediately notified all the relevant authorities and her bank.

Aside from obtaining a passport in FNMR name, did Marion change her name with any other forms of authority whatsoever? Her drivers licence? How did she rent a car in the UK with a drivers licence that doesn't match her new passport name? And what about travel insurance? Did she not take out any medical and accident or injury insurance to cover her time overseas.

There is no evidence the previous passport was destroyed so I imagine she was using both passports and that RB had persuaded her she needed to fly in a different name for some ludicrous fanciful reason - maybe she even viewed it as a lighthearted endeavour which is why she chose the flowery name?
 
  • #906
Ellen was a disability support worker from Lismore who was last seen in 2015 withdrawing cash at a Ballina venue with an ATM. Her car disappeared and she never accessed her bank again.

Given her bank wasn’t drained, I doubt it had anything to do with RB. His aim is to steal large amounts of money and expensive things.

I wondered if maybe she’d seen something regarding Marion and RB needed to fix it. But that’s also unlikely given she disappeared in 2015.

Ellen’s situation sounds like something totally different, and the only connection is that she went missing in Ballina. I don’t think RB did a lot of scamming where he lived. He seemed to go to great lengths to do it everywhere else!

I do hope Ellen’s family get some answers soon. Not knowing is just awful.

I don't think this case could be precluded from being anything to do with RB - his MO might be to TRY and take all someone's money and then make them 'disappear' but it doesn't mean it always goes to plan and we have no idea what he's been up to bearing in mind he's been doing what he does all day every day for 60+ years.
 
  • #907
Hello and welcome. Good question you raise here and I have been wondering the same - there's no reason why RB couldn't have fabricated some story about him working as a secret agent or for an embassy and creating Marion multiple passports.

Also, to go further, to what extent do we know that Marion actually 'changed her name' and was aware that she had changed her name so much as RB said he would need her to travel on a different passport for 'security reasons' (the FNMR one) that he had no doubt filed all the paperwork for. Did Marion actually think she'd changed her entire name!?? She seems to me like someone who, if so, would have immediately notified all the relevant authorities and her bank.

Aside from obtaining a passport in FNMR name, did Marion change her name with any other forms of authority whatsoever? Her drivers licence? How did she rent a car in the UK with a drivers licence that doesn't match her new passport name? And what about travel insurance? Did she not take out any medical and accident or injury insurance to cover her time overseas.

There is no evidence the previous passport was destroyed so I imagine she was using both passports and that RB had persuaded her she needed to fly in a different name for some ludicrous fanciful reason - maybe she even viewed it as a lighthearted endeavour which is why she chose the flowery name?
I believe that MB's passport application showed a FNMR driving license as ID, there was speculation on the thread that RB's procured license was used. I seem to remember AC mentioning at the inquest that MB had changed her name on her driving license, but I can't give a date/time reference. Anyone?
 
  • #908
This case boils down to two stories that happened at the exact same time:

1. Marion’s passport returned to Australia. The passenger cards are in Marion’s handwriting. It suggests she returned and went missing in Australia.

2. Marion said she was calling from England and soon going to Amsterdam. Gifts and postcards in Marion’s handwriting continued arriving. It suggests she did NOT return but went missing in Europe.

They can’t both be true. One of these is fake. One of these was not Marion.

To me it’s clear that either way, the perpetrator used assistance. Either way, he couldn’t have done it alone.

We also know RB is a professional at forgery, bypassing immigration laws, and has a history of leaving women in one country while disappearing overseas with their money.

This means #2 is more likely and #1 is the fake.

However, there is no actual evidence of an accomplice now, or in the past.

But no evidence doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

Yet the Crown can only use evidence and need to connect the dots in the most straightforward and direct manner.

They’ve chosen to give passenger cards and passport records more weight than phone call and postcards.

It doesn’t mean it’s the truth or full story. Casselden’s personal hunch may be the opposite but they have to put forward the most obvious and evident explanation and seeing as there’s no hard evidence of an accomplice, they have to go with Marion returning and dismissing the phone and postcards as delays and mishaps.

My opinion only.
As we now know, MB did not disclose everything to her family. So it is possible that both things happened at the same time ie MB did fly back in to Australia as per her landing card, also told SL she would be travelling and out of touch for a while, maybe even arranged for hotel staff to delay putting postcards into the postbox etc to create the impression she was still in Europe. Therefore MB could stay under the radar whilst she was on that short trip back to Aus (8 days?) with the family thinking she was in Amsterdam etc. All MOO of course and I am still in the 'MB returned to Aus' camp.
 
  • #909

This is the woman that has been on my radar since RB came into focus.
Unfortunately, she looks like what might be his type (looking at Marion + the woman in the Lu furniture store pic),in the age range of woman we heard as a witness & she took off with possessions, what sounds familiar also. Who knows. Worth looking into
 
  • #910
I am thinking the same, I don't think the ad in 1994(?) was answered by Marion but an amazing coincidence that it was uncovered by one of the Supersleuths (sorry I forget who it was, Joni perhaps?) and that one advertisement in Le Courrier has led to all of these shocking findings about RB and hopefully his unravelling which will see him imprisoned or stripped of his Aus citizenship and deported back to Belgium, lock him up and throw away the key.

Although I do wonder why RB spun the story about meeting Marion in Switzerland so many years earlier. Perhaps they had met prior to 1996? Seriously who would know with all the lies he spins......he probably can't remember the truth himself most of the time.

He likes to muddy the waters and obfuscate on any possible grounds.
 
  • #911
I’m working on her case still. I have located several previous addresses for her and guess what suburbs are on the list?
It’s possible.
Also one of her friends told me she had an unknown boyfriend who they hadn’t met… from west Ballina.
The police allegedly never followed it up.
Maybe interesting for your research : She has been mentioned in Belgian Msm (as a reaction to belgian Theo Hayez going missing), don’t know if it’s worth anything, but it can’t hurt.
 
  • #912
I’m working on her case still. I have located several previous addresses for her and guess what suburbs are on the list?
It’s possible.
Also one of her friends told me she had an unknown boyfriend who they hadn’t met… from west Ballina.
The police allegedly never followed it up.
That's what I would have predicted - that this unknown boyfriend was the perpetrator. IMO RB wouldn't work close to home.
 
  • #913
Welcome Astrach. I think this has been discussed before but not sure where it is on these threads. With RB he does tend to use the proper channels when it comes to legal documents even though his intentions are clearly criminal. For example with his passports, driving licence and Deed Polls they were all provided through each Governmental department and not bought or created on the black market.

Saying that could he have managed to get Marion another passport say in Europe? My feeling is it would be tricky and takes time. This guy moves fast when it comes to conning people and would he feel the need to change her name twice back in pre-Internet days?
IMO he wouldn't have wanted MB alive after he took most of her money.
 
  • #914
IMO he wouldn't have wanted MB alive after he took most of her money.
RB has other known victims who are alive though. What makes MB different from them for him to have potentially killed her?
 
  • #915
That's what I would have predicted - that this unknown boyfriend was the perpetrator. IMO RB wouldn't work close to home.
Agree, it feels much too close to home for him, and not enough to gain from her.
I didn’t realise Ellen was mentioned in Belgian msm I’ll try to look it up, thank you for that info!
Ellen moved up from Sydney after her mothers death. She trained in disability support services up here at Tafe and was working at Biala special school in Ballina before her disappearance.
I’m not sure if she got a substantial inheritance, but she was possibly vulnerable, maybe still grieving and didn’t have any family around here and really only a small group of friends through work.
As far as I can tell it was only the few hundred dollars that was withdrawn just before she went missing, along with her and her Subaru Forester.
I’m struggling to access the info police gathered but am starting to build a decent amount of info slowly.
If anyone else is interested in her case she has a thread on here too.
 
  • #916
RB has other known victims who are alive though. What makes MB different from them for him to have potentially killed her?
As far as is known, none of his other victims changed their name to match one of his aliases
 
  • #917
RB has other known victims who are alive though. What makes MB different from them for him to have potentially killed her?
You have a point there. The way I see it is that as he is a resident of Australia where his family and friends are, he would have wanted to protect his reputation back home in case he was found out. So IMO his MO was to arrange for these women to disappear overseas by paying someone else to do that task while he could prove that he wasn't in that country at the time.

That's why I think MB met her demise overseas at the hands of someone else. He flew back earlier so there is proof life that she was still in the UK after he left with the phone call to Sally a few days after he left and also the postcards - the last one arriving on August 30. .

With JO, he hoped she'd be stranded overseas as she had no money while he sold her house and had it in his name. Yes there would have been a court case later but he would have argued that she willingly signed the house over to him. Perhaps the travel agent whom he told her to go to was his accomplice who had the task of making JO disappear but luckily she went to her cousin's place for help. Did RB know that beforehand? I've forgotten now. But JO's demise would have occurred overseas while he was back here in Australia.

With GGB, his main goal was also to get her overseas to Paris where she could have met her demise but she didn't fall for it.

With GD, it looks as if she could have met her demise in Bali where her family would have found it very difficult to find out what happened to her. But again, he probably would have flown back to Australia before she died, the hitman would have been tasked with giving proof of life after he left with phone calls and postcards.

Keeping MB alive by giving her a passport in another name whether legally or illegally, does not prevent her from reporting him to authorities as being the one who probably defrauded her when she found out that someone had emptied her bank account whatever country she could have ended up in. Even if she willingly came back here and naively gave the money to him herself, when her dreams of being married in Luxembourg didn't eventuate and he abandoned her, she would have reported him.

Yes MB knew him under another name but she would have known enough about him to describe his appearance, his age, the area in which he lived in Australia and that he came from Luxembourg. Not sure if he would have told her he was born in Belgium. If he had shown her his FNR driving licence, the police would have tried to trace that to a Remakel living in Australia. But there was no one under that name living here so it would have led to FNR living in Luxembourg whom RB would have hoped would be suspected until his appearance didn't match the description MB gave. So police would have been alerted to a resident of Australia using FNR's name. Further searches would have then been done (as Joni did) and the ad would have been found. And the rest is history.
 
  • #918
Jennifer went missing in 2012. So that's ten years ago. He would have been 73yo. When did he abandon that last lady in Bali? I assumed that he might have stopped by 2012. It says she would be 77yo now so the age is right for RB. But it appears to me that she could have been moving from rented accommodation in Neutral Bay to one in Vaucluse. Yes RB knew the area but it looks as if she was murdered near there as her car was still there. I have not thought that murder was RB's thing as he was after money. One would think that there would be some comment about her bank having been accessed. It sounds to me that she could have had a narcissistic partner and suffered domestic violence and was moving away to a new area away from him and he followed her and killed her. But surely he would have been suspected by family and friends.
Who knows for sure.

No one in their right mind would have believed all we know now about him.

Age is no barrier to a lunatic

I put NOTHING past him.

There is not much on the background of Jennifers case, so no one knows what her story is.
 
  • #919
I’m working on her case still. I have located several previous addresses for her and guess what suburbs are on the list?
It’s possible.
Also one of her friends told me she had an unknown boyfriend who they hadn’t met… from west Ballina.
The police allegedly never followed it up.

Interesting you say she had an unknown boyfriend from Ballina because that was Ellens case also.

Are you sure you havent the 2 cases mixed up...

Edit!
Opps sorry I thought you were talking about Jennifer.
Yes Ellens background and her unknown boyfriend is well documented.


It is Jennifer I would be interested in finding out about.
 
  • #920
Interesting you say she had an unknown boyfriend from Ballina because that was Ellens case also.

Are you sure you havent the 2 cases mixed up...

Edit!
Opps sorry I thought you were talking about Jennifer.
Somethings definitely confused. I was talking about Ellen.
 
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