Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #15

[sapphire blue]

Deleted by me

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Oooh new episode out tonight! Must we wait until midnight?
If I had to guess, I'd say someone else from the bank came forward.
In my wildest dreams it's the lady who is married to a police officer, possibly from Byron Bay.
Hahahaha, but that's probably asking too much.

 

[vivienbee]

I still struggle with it not been Marion who returned - if we are to believe the call to Sally was made on the 31st then we would need to add another person to the con .. we would have RB in Aus and the MB impersonator on a Flight or on the stop over, and then someone has to kill her in the UK - I realize adding another person to the mix is not beyond impossible, but I am still struggling with it lol

I ricochet back and forth between it being Marion who made the withdrawals, but I think (dodgy timelines and incomprehensible plans aside) it makes the most sense to me that it was Marion who returned.
I know a lot of people are in the camp of DdH flying into England somehow on a fake passport and then returning on Marion's. This might make some sense in terms of Casselden questioning her about whether she ever used an alias, although this may have also been to highlight how implausible it was that she didn't think it at all weird that RB kept changing his name.

I'm not 100% clear about airline practices in the 90s and I'm not sure how much would have flown under the radar/could be checked, but if someone (the alias) entered the UK on a tourist visa and then never exited the country, would this not have launched some kind of immigration investigation?

On top of that, if Marion was killed in the UK, this would then necessitate another person's involvement as you said. RB could have hired someone, yes, but at this point there would be multiple people involved in the scheme and the web (and arguably the cost involved, monetarily and in terms of risk) just keeps growing. If we are to believe that the plan would have been the same with JO (and it does seem like a blueprint of Marion's case in many ways), the murdered in the UK by a hitman theory would again need to be in motion. Was this the "agent"? Did the "agent" even exist? No one travelled back as JO in this instance, so why did the pattern change?

I'm just rambling at this point but I think the most likely scenario is that it was Marion who travelled back on her passport. Whether or not this was planned/under duress or of her own volition (scuppering RB's plans) is another question.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Realistically speaking, can the podcast reveal anything important while inquest is still being finalised?
Perhaps the 'new development' is the bank manager's sudden evidence?

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Remember JO said RB asked her to dye her hair blonde. Who else has blonde hair? MC.
I'm not sold on the theory, but it's possible MC was his accomplice and that is why she's the only person he speaks highly of.
And it's how RB got FR's ID.
MC might've been keen to throw her ex husband under the bus.
And perhaps it's why it appears she 'got out' of a relationship with RB unscathed.
Who knows? Just wild speculation.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

I ricochet back and forth between it being Marion who made the withdrawals, but I think (dodgy timelines and incomprehensible plans aside) it makes the most sense to me that it was Marion who returned.
I know a lot of people are in the camp of DdH flying into England somehow on a fake passport and then returning on Marion's. This might make some sense in terms of Casselden questioning her about whether she ever used an alias, although this may have also been to highlight how implausible it was that she didn't think it at all weird that RB kept changing his name.

I'm not 100% clear about airline practices in the 90s and I'm not sure how much would have flown under the radar/could be checked, but if someone (the alias) entered the UK on a tourist visa and then never exited the country, would this not have launched some kind of immigration investigation?

On top of that, if Marion was killed in the UK, this would then necessitate another person's involvement as you said. RB could have hired someone, yes, but at this point there would be multiple people involved in the scheme and the web (and arguably the cost involved, monetarily and in terms of risk) just keeps growing. If we are to believe that the plan would have been the same with JO (and it does seem like a blueprint of Marion's case in many ways), the murdered in the UK by a hitman theory would again need to be in motion. Was this the "agent"? Did the "agent" even exist? No one travelled back as JO in this instance, so why did the pattern change?

I'm just rambling at this point but I think the most likely scenario is that it was Marion who travelled back on her passport. Whether or not this was planned/under duress or of her own volition (scuppering RB's plans) is another question.

Good points.
Although I don't think we know JO's passport movements. We've only seen Marion's passenger cards.
We have not seen RB's or JO's, and just because police don't mention it, doesn't mean they don't have it. Sometimes they keep things to themselves on purpose, to see what people say and do when they don't think police know.

Like the Freddy David Chusan thing. Hahahaha, they kept that up their sleeve for a while and then sprung it on RB only AFTER they interrogated DdH - in order to see what she'd say.

Sometimes I wonder if RB was planning to arrange everything in Australia then return to JO in UK, and then do something about her. You know... keep her alive until it all worked out. She wouldn't have known a thing.

 

[KiwiNZ]

Realistically speaking, can the podcast reveal anything important while inquest is still being finalised?
Perhaps the 'new development' is the bank manager's sudden evidence?

I am thinking that they have been quite vocal about not been able to submit new information to be considered at the inquest, and now they are in limbo awaiting the finding which I assume they want the result to be "police investigation into the possible murder of MB", but if they wait then they could be muzzle by the police investigation, so they have a window of opportunity to keep on speaking ... I feel like this is possible a message to police "we won't be going away " and “we won’t be silenced”

Cause that's what I would do lol

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Remember JO said RB asked her to dye her hair blonde. Who else has blonde hair? MC.
I'm not sold on the theory, but it's possible MC was his accomplice and that is why she's the only person he speaks highly of.
And it's how RB got FR's ID.
MC might've been keen to throw her ex husband under the bus.
And perhaps it's why it appears she 'got out' of a relationship with RB unscathed.
Who knows? Just wild speculation.

I've been wondering this too, whether MC was in fact more of an accomplice. It might explain a LOT.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

New episode out now!

 

[TootsieFootsie]

The Inquest Resumes

Podcast Episode · The Lady Vanishes · 08/11/2022 · 48m

podcasts.apple.com

The new episode just went up

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

Another Belgium victim

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

Another Belgium victim

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I just finished listening. Right at the end they mention a new victim.

I listened to all of the podcast and nowhere was it mentioned that she was from Belgium.

Maybe that part was discussed somewhere else, like the FB page.

 

[DerZuschauer]

I just finished listening. Right at the end they mention a new victim.

I listened to all of the podcast and nowhere was it mentioned that she was from Belgium.

Maybe that part was discussed somewhere else, like the FB page.

Bryan mentions it right at the beginning.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Bryan mentions it right at the beginning.

Thanks I might have to have another listen.

Ok I did hear it this time, and I do recall a moment when some other video started playing on a news site, so I think that's how I missed hearing it.

As the story spreads all over the world, I imagine there will be more victims, though I'm sure some wouldn't want to come forward for all kinds of reasons.

 

[poppypopcorn]

Have listened to the latest podcast and the submissions made by Adam the Lawyer (who we all think is just a bit wonderful, right)?

They are obviously treading a fine legal line here and they cannot accuse or infer anything based on feelings or hunches. We all KNOW that Mr Many Names is a bad lot who has conned a lot of women in the past but AC is right, although it looks very much as if he was in the UK at the same time as Marion there is not one witness or piece of evidence to corroborate that. It's ALL circumstantial. It's also interesting that they are saying they are pretty sure it WAS Marion who returned to Australia, took out the money then disappeared.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

Have listened to the latest podcast and the submissions made by Adam the Lawyer (who we all think is just a bit wonderful, right)?

They are obviously treading a fine legal line here and they cannot accuse or infer anything based on feelings or hunches. We all KNOW that Mr Many Names is a bad lot who has conned a lot of women in the past but AC is right, although it looks very much as if he was in the UK at the same time as Marion there is not one witness or piece of evidence to corroborate that. It's ALL circumstantial. It's also interesting that they are saying they are pretty sure it WAS Marion who returned to Australia, took out the money then disappeared.

It’s not really surprising nobody has come forward in the UK as this case has received barely any publicity in UK mainstream media. I also doubt Kent or Sussex Police have been asked to carry out any investigations either.

 

[vivienbee]

It’s not really surprising nobody has come forward in the UK as this case has received barely any publicity in UK mainstream media. I also doubt Kent or Sussex Police have been asked to carry out any investigations either.

I have met multiple people from Tunbridge Wells in recent years that I have mentioned the case to and it was their first time hearing about it. Baffling lack of media coverage.

 

[mishy66]

I ricochet back and forth between it being Marion who made the withdrawals, but I think (dodgy timelines and incomprehensible plans aside) it makes the most sense to me that it was Marion who returned.
I know a lot of people are in the camp of DdH flying into England somehow on a fake passport and then returning on Marion's. This might make some sense in terms of Casselden questioning her about whether she ever used an alias, although this may have also been to highlight how implausible it was that she didn't think it at all weird that RB kept changing his name.

I'm not 100% clear about airline practices in the 90s and I'm not sure how much would have flown under the radar/could be checked, but if someone (the alias) entered the UK on a tourist visa and then never exited the country, would this not have launched some kind of immigration investigation?

On top of that, if Marion was killed in the UK, this would then necessitate another person's involvement as you said. RB could have hired someone, yes, but at this point there would be multiple people involved in the scheme and the web (and arguably the cost involved, monetarily and in terms of risk) just keeps growing. If we are to believe that the plan would have been the same with JO (and it does seem like a blueprint of Marion's case in many ways), the murdered in the UK by a hitman theory would again need to be in motion. Was this the "agent"? Did the "agent" even exist? No one travelled back as JO in this instance, so why did the pattern change?

I'm just rambling at this point but I think the most likely scenario is that it was Marion who travelled back on her passport. Whether or not this was planned/under duress or of her own volition (scuppering RB's plans) is another question.

There is so much we dont know about RB. We have no idea what he is capable of but I put nothing past him.

We have only seen him as the bumbling old fool that he was on the stand. He was once a young tall strong man who no doubt now, swooned innocent victims into believing his BS.

I agree with you in that DdeH is not the one who flew overseas and came back on the passport.

We do know he was a master fraudster, a master at ID fraud and at money laundering IMO. We have seen the look of disbelief on his face when his beloved 'singing testicle' lover betrayed him by producing letters she had kept for years and years..... why would she suddenly turn on him and why would she have kept those letters, if not for collateral I have to ask myself.

His singing testicle lover has a bigger hand to play in all of this IMO and we have only heard the tip of the iceberg.

As Peralta said, JO was asked by RB to dye her hair blond... why? That was really important to him for some reason.....

I am still sitting with they were never meant to come back to Aust. It worked for Marion and he was going to try the same plan with JO and possibly others we have yet to hear about.

I am still sitting with the real esate fraud, home title theft and his ability to use women as a means to collect money for his lifestyle.

Someone used her FNMR passport to enter Aust, whether he sold it to someone else to get into Aust illegally or otherwise, but once he returned home, someone close to him played a hand in fleecing MB bank accounts, someone close to him and who was possibly coerced into his plan....


MB changed her name to FNMR..... WHY those initials.....Fernand Nicolas Marie Ernest REMAKEL the ex of MC's name was important to him ......... MB could have chosen any name........

She left her bank accounts here in the name of MB... back in Aust with her M. Barter IDs, would give him access to the money. For Marion to access her funds she would have needed to a lot of time to prove who she was given her new ID. And why withdraw $500 each time when she has gone to the trouble of gathering all her documentation to prove she was MB for the bank.......Close the account and get back to life as a housewife in Lux would be the fastest option for her given she didnt want her family to know she was back - something amiss here in the first instance.

Did RB had an account OS under his alias FNR > could he be planning to transfer her money into that? Or was it his plan to get Marion to use her new ID and set one up so he had somewhere to syphon the money he was about to fleece.

All these things we are yet to find out about.... hopefully!


I am still going with a second party helping him all these years, someone who knows him very very well...... After all, who is it that keeps signing off on all his new passport IDs........

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Post episode thoughts… We know Casselden has to use the little evidence there is to connect the dots in the most direct way. And that all roads lead to Marion being deceased.

I agree with his REASONING, even if it’s not what actually happened.

Except on one point. He said it isn’t known when Marion perished and there’s no evidence to suggest it was shortly after making withdrawals.

I disagree and hope the Coroner rejects his notion. A reasonable inference is that a person is deceased when signs of life stop.

Marion’s last proof of life in the UK was the postcard postmarked 30 August (I’m going from memory, correct me if I got the date wrong). Her last proof of life in Australia was probably mid October 1997.

All movement stopped around that time. If we use Casselden’s ‘most direct’ method, Marion thought she was married, considered Luxembourg home, and was going to live there after a short visit to Australia. She used services once in Australia. Then she willingly withdrew her money and all movement stopped.

There IS enough evidence she died after withdrawing her money.

Perhaps they can’t say it yet, because if they do, they would have to refer case for criminal review?

Perhaps the Homicide Squad are waiting to gather more evidence?

Perhaps the Coroner will agree (and I assume Smith will say something similar) and RB will be arrested as soon as she says it in her finding?

It’s just ridiculous if the findings say they’re not sure when she died!

C’mon now. She died after the money was withdrawn. No question about it. IMO MOO