Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #15

[Deleted member 249471]

Reposting this from mid last year:

This has been said before, many threads ago, so I can’t take credit for it.

On 10 Dec 1994, there were just two lonely heart ads, known as ‘rencontres' placed in the Le Courrier Australien. One is from Monsieur Remakel (RB), the other is this:

French, 50 years old, blonde, blue eyed, 1.52m, slim, youthful looking, love healthy and simple life, seek sober French speaking man or man having French interests. Write to Marie Llimos, 221 Fontaines Ave, Wallace-St-Pierre, 84500

Could this be Monsieur Remakel's accomplice? Or Marion’s imposter? A separate con? Or a genuine search for love?

She’s supposedly just a year older than Marion at the time, blonde and blue eyed.
All the other ads in the classifieds that day were not lonely hearts, they were language exchange, house swap, looking for work, offer of services, etc.

At the time, I suggested one theory could be that the conman was using these ads to communicate in secret with an accomplice. For example, they had previously arranged to both post in the paper, secretly alerting each other where in the world they were, so they could write to each other. You know… because they moved frequently according to who they were courting/conning.

It’s ridiculous, I know! Then the inquest started and we forgot all about this.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

We now know the Monsieur Remakel ad was actually RB.

He was very purposeful in using his FNR id. He didn’t use it willy nilly, leaving a large trail. We have not found any other ‘looking for love’ ad in that name or any other in any of his aliases. Not to say they don’t exist, but we haven’t found proof.

And I personally don’t believe the ad in 1994 is how he met Marion.

So… what exactly was his purpose for making this ad and using that particular name???

 

[Deleted member 249471]

For reference, no witness/victim we’ve heard of yet, met RB from replying to his lonely heart ad.

GGB placed an ad but I think they met through church?
JO met him through the coin business.
MC was apparently a customer of his.
Flamme was introduced by his son in law after meeting RB while researching coins.

Where are the women he met through ‘looking for love’ ad? Are there any? I’m beginning to suspect not.

 

[Estelle]

For some reason I could not reply to Peralta's post #561 above or edit it later.

I wondered where the address of this lady actually is. It is in Bollene which is in the south-east of France at 37 kilometres from Avignon, the department capital (general information: Bollene is 541 kilometres from Paris).

Bollene is nearly three hours' drive from the French Riviera which is an area which RB referred to with JO.

When I first read the ad, I assumed that the woman who placed the ad could have been another victim of RB. I thought could she be the woman from Belgium whom we will soon hear about as it was not clear from the address which country her address was in? But the address used is in France.

But on further thought I agree with Peralta that she could have been an accomplice of RB especially as she has blonde hair and RB wanted MB to dye her hair blonde. But all RB had to do was to change the photo on MB's passport for her to use MB's passport which was occasionally done in those days. I then wondered if this woman could have been posing as Maz (Marie) whom MB mentioned in one of her postcards and whom MB was about to meet with the Dutch "Dentist" - supposedly friends of RB?

Also I looked up the Marie Llimos name and there are five listings on Linkedin and these women all live in Argentina.

 

[Estelle]

We now know the Monsieur Remakel ad was actually RB.

He was very purposeful in using his FNR id. He didn’t use it willy nilly, leaving a large trail. We have not found any other ‘looking for love’ ad in that name or any other in any of his aliases. Not to say they don’t exist, but we haven’t found proof.

And I personally don’t believe the ad in 1994 is how he met Marion.

So… what exactly was his purpose for making this ad and using that particular name???

So you are suggesting that RB placed the ad from the woman?

 

[Estelle]

For reference, no witness/victim we’ve heard of yet, met RB from replying to his lonely heart ad.

GGB placed an ad but I think they met through church?
JO met him through the coin business.
MC was apparently a customer of his.
Flamme was introduced by his son in law after meeting RB while researching coins.

Where are the women he met through ‘looking for love’ ad? Are there any? I’m beginning to suspect not.

I had no idea that GGB met RB through Church. I have always thought that they met through her ad. How could they meet through Church when she lived in Sydney, he lived in Ballina and I cannot imagine RB ever going to a Church in Sydney.

 

[Belleandsebastian]

I had no idea that GGB met RB through Church. I have always thought that they met through her ad. How could they meet through Church when she lived in Sydney, he lived in Ballina and I cannot imagine RB ever going to a Church in Sydney.

Didn’t he sort of seek out Janet Oldenberg too and call her? He knew she had split from her husband so he set his sights on her. Seems he sought out his victims. I’m wondering if he did the same with Ginette.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

So you are suggesting that RB placed the ad from the woman?

No. I’m suggesting the each wrote their ad.

The theory is RB and an accomplice were pursuing separate cons in different parts of the world and needed a way to keep track of each other / continue affair / plan the next con.

The theory is they had previously agreed they would each place a ‘lonely hearts’ ad in Le Courrier on that specific date, so they would both know to buy it and check it, and they would each provide their address so they could know where the other was and write to each other directly. The names they used would need to be something the other recognised. And just in case that wasn’t enough, they described themselves!

Mobile phones were not the norm in 1994. And RB was moving a lot, wasn’t he? Between Europe, Tasmania, NSW and QLD? So how else could they find each other?

I mean… why would a lady in France be looking for a sober man with french speaking skills and french interests IN AUSTRALIA?!

Usually, if you are interested in reaching out across the world to find love or a friend, you seek something opposite of what you have plentiful access to at home. Right?

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Didn’t he sort of seek out Janet Oldenberg too and call her? He knew she had split from her husband so he set his sights on her. Seems he sought out his victims. I’m wondering if he did the same with Ginette.

I could be wrong about the church thing, it’s just from memory.

I thought they suggested at the inquest that he saw her ad and targeted her that way, but approached her a different way.

 

[Estelle]

So you are suggesting that RB placed the ad from the woman?

My gut feeling is that this woman wanted to immigrate to Australia so hoping to meet a (French?) man living in Australia, she placed the ad herself. RB connected with her and promised her that one day he would arrange for her to immigrate to Australia. IMO she could have been the imposter using MB's Remakel passport. Whether it was she who withdrew MB's money or DdH did is questionable. I have never thought that MB would have done those withdrawals when withdrawing $500 a day would not have been necessary for her.

I also think that MB would have expected to have been with RB every night if she did return. Most women would have been very suspicious of a man she was in love with not being with her at night. The first thing you would think of would be "he must be married", surely? Of course, he could have told MB some story saying that he would return when she had withdrawn all her money and they would then return to Luxembourg. But this would have gone on from August to October. Marion alone somewhere withdrawing all these $500 amounts in cash sounds strange to me. MB could have woken up to him at any time and escaped from where she was living. I don't think he held her hostage but if DdH was in on it, perhaps RB did stay with MB all that time.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Opps. My bad. This article says GGB met FdH though an ad.

Bit it was unclear who’s ad it was because GGB seemed think she didn’t write the ad police found in the paper with her details.

And police couldn’t find any ads from him.

it was GGB’s friend from church who said she knew someone who also had succumbed to a con artist.

Searching for Marion Barter: a daughter’s 25-year quest to find her missing mother | New South Wales | The Guardian

This year’s coronial inquest into the case has revealed more shocking detail. For those of us who have spent years looking for answers, it has been confronting and baffling

amp.theguardian.com

 

[Deleted member 249471]

My gut feeling is that this woman wanted to immigrate to Australia so hoping to meet a (French?) man living in Australia, she placed the ad herself. RB connected with her and promised her that one day he would arrange for her to immigrate to Australia. IMO she could have been the imposter using MB's Remakel passport. Whether it was she who withdrew MB's money or DdH did is questionable. I have never thought that MB would have done those withdrawals when withdrawing $500 a day would not have been necessary for her.

I also think that MB would have expected to have been with RB every night if she did return. Most women would have been very suspicious of a man she was in love with not being with her at night. The first thing you would think of would be "he must be married", surely? Of course, he could have told MB some story saying that he would return when she had withdrawn all her money and they would then return to Luxembourg. But this would have gone on from August to October. Marion alone somewhere withdrawing all these $500 amounts in cash sounds strange to me. MB could have woken up to him at any time and escaped from where she was living. I don't think he held her hostage but if DdH was in on it, perhaps RB did stay with MB all that time.

That’s very good point! Marion would’ve wanted to spend the night with RB if it was her who returned.

Particularly if she thought she was married and tying up loose ends so they could move to Luxembourg!

I wonder of the dH’s weird move to a different house has something to do with it?

 

[Deleted member 249471]

So… what if MC wasn’t having an affair with RB but was just a business partner?

And the letters were made up to give the illusion it was an affair?

An, purely speculating, it was her who returned and they all lived in the new house, so their old neighbours wouldn’t ask questions about the new lady staying with them for a year? And that’s why they needed a new car all of a sudden?

Argh. I don’t know.

 

[Estelle]

I could be wrong about the church thing, it’s just from memory.

I thought they suggested at the inquest that he saw her ad and targeted her that way, but approached her a different way.

But she would have to have replied to his ad first so he knew her name, address, interests, phone no etc. and probably knew about her having the flat a the back of her house, her daycare job, a photo of her and that she went to a specific church. So he then goes along to the Church to meet her and talks his way into living at her house.

That reminds me that if this is more his Modus Operandi, then IMO he could have done this with MB either from the ad in 1994 by keeping her details for later as he was busy and/or from seeing her in the media that she won the Teaching Excellence Award as the media article probably gave him many details about her that he could follow up. It is likely he did surveillance on these women before he ever met them in person.

 

[Estelle]

So… what if MC wasn’t having an affair with RB but was just a business partner?

And the letters were made up to give the illusion it was an affair?

An, purely speculating, it was her who returned and they all lived in the new house, so their old neighbours wouldn’t ask questions about the new lady staying with them for a year? And that’s why they needed a new car all of a sudden?

Argh. I don’t know.

The same could have happened with Marie Llimos. In either case, RB's children would know if they had a woman staying with them at that time.

 

[*juniper*]

We now know the Monsieur Remakel ad was actually RB.

He was very purposeful in using his FNR id. He didn’t use it willy nilly, leaving a large trail. We have not found any other ‘looking for love’ ad in that name or any other in any of his aliases. Not to say they don’t exist, but we haven’t found proof.

And I personally don’t believe the ad in 1994 is how he met Marion.

So… what exactly was his purpose for making this ad and using that particular name???

I agree that RB was very careful when using his FNR ID.

I have wondered if his ad shows that at the time he was shifting his attention away from other scams & more towards vulnerable women? The December ad is, IMO, looking for a lonely woman in the lead up to the Christmas/New Year period, which can be a difficult time of year. So it was deliberately placed but might not have received much response.

Poor MB came across RB at the worst possible time when she was left vulnerable due to her work situation. She sells her house and there is a lot of money in her bank account.

I think that RB wanted to make it look like MB disappeared overseas, somewhere between Tunbridge Wells & the Orient Express. If Sally had not been told by the bank that money was being taken out of her account in Byron Bay, then where would she have started looking? (I think MB was somehow tricked into going along with this plan, with the promise of the big reveal in the near future.)

RB knew that he had to keep the momentum building & not leave any time for MB to reflect, so he used his FNR ID to assist with the name change and speedy issue of a new passport, so that MB would effectively disappear on the way to the Brisbane airport. MOO

 

[*juniper*]

No. I’m suggesting the each wrote their ad.

The theory is RB and an accomplice were pursuing separate cons in different parts of the world and needed a way to keep track of each other / continue affair / plan the next con.

The theory is they had previously agreed they would each place a ‘lonely hearts’ ad in Le Courrier on that specific date, so they would both know to buy it and check it, and they would each provide their address so they could know where the other was and write to each other directly. The names they used would need to be something the other recognised. And just in case that wasn’t enough, they described themselves!

Mobile phones were not the norm in 1994. And RB was moving a lot, wasn’t he? Between Europe, Tasmania, NSW and QLD? So how else could they find each other?

I mean… why would a lady in France be looking for a sober man with french speaking skills and french interests IN AUSTRALIA?!

Usually, if you are interested in reaching out across the world to find love or a friend, you seek something opposite of what you have plentiful access to at home. Right?

Yes, I have heard it was a way to send a coded message in the past, but would RB use his FNR alias for this purpose if he didn’t have to? Wouldn’t it be more sensible to use an alias that couldn’t be traced back to him, and wasn’t ‘compromising’ an ID that was supported by a legal document - the DL?

 

[Belleandsebastian]

The next episode is out. TLV also posted an article but it’s not in English and under a paywall.

 

[Estelle]

"Of course, they were all lies, I know that today. And then he robbed me."
https://www.wort.lu/.../wie-eine-belgische-rentnerin...
This is Guislaine and boy, does she have a story to tell about Frederic de Hedervary aka Ric Blum. To hear more, download Episode 43, which is now available. Also the full story will soon be available in English in the Luxembourg Times.

 

[gwebb9]

The next episode is out. TLV also posted an article but it’s not in English and under a paywall.

Just finished listening. Still processing the new lady that has given her account. OMG - the plot thickens. My head is spinning.