Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #15

[Ponderer101]

RB - what an absolute hideous man, he is just nauseating

What's with the liver scan - he sounds like Hannibal, checking his preys organs

If his family don't say what they know, and they know, then they are as

That’s what it said in the podcast IIRC but there was some implication (here? / on the podcast? / unsure) that RB had already shown an interest in poisons before the book incident came to light, although I’m not at all clear on that.

I googled arsenic poisoning. Loss of central vision is one of the symptoms..

 

[sunnybree]

In my opinion, everything he did was all on his own.

He had no partner in crime. It was all his own work.

I agree with this. I think he operated alone although he may have compelled his wife to aid him by lying and covering things up. I think RB despises women and I cannot see him as a partner in a supportive, healthy arrangement. IMO, his relationships are about getting his own needs met, I doubt he is very interested in his wife’s needs at all. For all of his professed affection for MC, I don’t think he truly cares for her either. He lied to her and frightened her, that’s not love. She’s only an object to him.

 

[sunnybree]

I googled arsenic poisoning. Loss of central vision is one of the symptoms..

That’s really interesting although would someone suffering from that be referred following an eye test?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I posted here once. ages ago, about maybe Marion having died in the UK and someone replied that it couldn't be because there were no unidentified bodies in the UK.

I think my reply was that maybe her body hasn't been found yet.

 

[vivienbee]

I posted here once. ages ago, about maybe Marion having died in the UK and someone replied that it couldn't be because there were no unidentified bodies in the UK.

I think my reply was that maybe her body hasn't been found yet.

Agree. Also, not all of the bodies that are currently unidentified in the UK are digitised and filed online on sites listing Jane/John Does. That doesn't mean there aren't any.

A report from The Sun newspaper (bear with) from Jan 2021 states, "There are roughly 65-100 cases of unidentified remains reported to the MPU each year. Currently there are 1,131 unidentified cases open on the database, with the reports dating from 1950-2020."

 

[vivienbee]

Only one issue with regard to the family / DdH being complicit or not - if they are not complicit, they why are they not falling over themselves to help the investigation and making as much detailed reports and thinking back to RB's comings and goings as they possibly can? They are complicit by their silence. They know things. Any innocent person who has been victim of an abuser / narcissist / psychopath, as soon as you get your chance to be free and believed, you grab it hard. Most people never get a chance, they're simply silent victims of abuse that never gets confronted. IMO JMO

I'm not sure what my position is re: DdH's possible involvement (and as mentioned by others the case is ongoing and we may not have the full picture of how much people are cooperating) but I just want to raise my strong disagreement with this statement. This is a damaging opinion and doesn't take into account the complexity of abuse and how it functions.

Many victims of abuse return to their abusers, sometimes repeatedly, especially if the abuse has been ongoing for years. Some manage to escape from their abusive partners and go on to live 'healthy' lives. Some escape and never recover from the psychological damage inflicted. Some die. It's not at all uncommon for people to remain loyal to their abuser and terrified of them even if they've been separated for a long time. Manipulation, coercive control and the gradual wearing down of someone's 'normal' psychological defences can completely void what we might consider to be 'normal' behaviour. Silence does not equate to guilt. Defending an abuser does not equate to guilt. Standing by an abuser does not equate to guilt.

I'm getting off my soapbox now.

 

[AStartoSteerBy]

Re the liver function. Maybe RB wanted to know it was safe to dose the women with drugs? JO said she felt drugged the night of the photographs. Maybe he wanted to keep slowly poisoning or ad hoc drugging women but be assured that they wouldn't end up actually dead because they have a liver problem - he's a control freak quite clearly and I imagine having an accidentally dead woman on your hands would mean instantaneous blowing of his cover, detaining by the police, and possibly life in prison. He wasn't with the women consistently day in day out but maybe he was drip feed poisoning them in a way that would culminate in death at some point in the future, ie arsenic or suchlike?

Maybe there's poisoning that means that a victim could end up feeling really poorly and feeble for weeks / months and slowly decline ending up dead in due course - then he gets everything as he's taken possession and power of attorney. What do we know about any women who checked into hospitals, A&E, or were found deceased alone but not in suspicious circumstances? What if Marion died alone in a lodging room or hotel but with someone else's paperwork and the death wasn't considered suspicious? How far down the line do the police / authorities go to 'detect' such things? A close relative of mine died suddenly at home alone recently and to say the powers that be could not give a monkeys about what happened is to put it mildly. They are very satisfied to say 'heart attack' or such with eff all investigation when someone is over 50 and there's no sign of a struggle or forced entry.

Or maybe he was drip feeding some kind of drug that meant the women would become 'addicted' to him without realising they were not feeling amazing in his company, they were being doped?

"Re the liver function. Maybe RB wanted to know it was safe to dose the women with drugs? JO said she felt drugged the night of the photographs."

Agree, that this could be an explanation. It is a possibility in my mind that somewhere in the world there is at least one victim that RB overdosed.

Additionally, the liver scan could have something to do with dosing the women with something like GHB. Maybe not just for the safety aspect of accidental overdose (unpleasant side effects or death), but also for the time limits of the drug. He would need time to take photographs or otherwise arrange blackmail, but it could be problematic for him if unintended side effects upset his plans. It's pretty hard to get blackmail photos if your victim is vomiting or having a seizure.

Background info:
"GHB emerged as a recreational drug of abuse in the early 1990s and attracted considerable attention, especially when it was implicated in cases of drug facilitated sexual assault (DFSA), which is often referred to by the media as “date rape”

"Mortality rates after abuse of GHB are high, because there is only a narrow safety margin between a recreational dose and a fatal dose, which is only 5:1 to 8:1... Accordingly, accidental poisoning after recreational use of GHB is not uncommon..."

What if RB regularly dosed or increased the dose on his victims to help keep them docile and euphoric during the con? Then, he utilized withdrawal symptoms to weaken the resolve of his victims to get away with his cons after he abandons them in a foreign country.

"After regular use of increasing doses, the signs and symptoms of GHB withdrawal become apparent usually within 1-6 hours after taking the last dose. It should be pointed out that the clinical course of GHB withdrawal symptoms might be fairly long, lasting 14 days or more. After detoxification, some patients suffer from continuous anxiety and depression with cognitive deficits and persistent insomnia.

Another possibility for the liver scans could be something along the lines of him wanting to avoid getting Hepatitis C.

Reference:

GHB Pharmacology and Toxicology: Acute Intoxication, Concentrations in Blood and Urine in Forensic Cases and Treatment of the Withdrawal Syndrome - PMC

The illicit recreational drug of abuse, γ-hydroxybutyrate (GHB) is a potent central nervous system depressant and is often encountered during forensic investigations of living and deceased persons. The sodium salt of GHB is registered as a ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

GHB Pharmacology and Toxicology: Acute Intoxication, Concentrations in Blood and Urine in Forensic Cases and Treatment of the Withdrawal Syndrome. ​

Curr Neuropharmacol. 2015 Jan; 13(1): 47–70.
Published online 2015 Jan. doi: 10.2174/1570159X13666141210215423


All just possibilities in looking at a complicated situation.
All MOO.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Hi- Could Marion’s name change initials have been to access some investment under the name FNMRemakel that RB could have learned about through Monique?
Did the real Fernand have any shares/investments/property/ vehicles/boats stolen during that period? RB may have needed photo ID to claim it, but with a pic that wasn’t recognizable as RB by Fernand if he reported it.

We did a deep dive on the real FR ages ago, after the podcast went to Luxembourg and when we still knew nothing of RB.

It was clear FR and his family ran a property investment business. There’s plenty of documentation on it online and within this forum.

But thank you for reminding me because I forgotten this next bit!!! During inquest we did wonder about the purpose of Marion changing her name to FNMR initials and theorised RB was trying to get his hands on some of FR’s property. Or FR had something of value RB wanted.

MC could’ve let slip details of his ex husband’s finances and belongings, and RB thought he’d help himself to it.

We previously discussed if RB used Marion to walk into a bank, for instance, and empty a safety deposit box, that contained property deeds or valuables?

Or perhaps he tried to do it himself (or used an accomplice) using Marion’s passport. In that case, the theory is RB scammed Marion for her valuables but the name change was simply to get a legal passport he could use to rob FR as well.

 

[BabeBlues]

Does anyone remember where to find the old newspaper photo of RB (possibly with DhD) and business partners in relation to the opening of the furniture store in Belgium?

 

[Deleted member 249471]

We did a deep dive on the real FR ages ago, after the podcast went to Luxembourg and when we still knew nothing of RB.

It was clear FR and his family ran a property investment business. There’s plenty of documentation on it online and within this forum.

But thank you for reminding me because I forgotten this next bit!!! During inquest we did wonder about the purpose of Marion changing her name to FNMR initials and theorised RB was trying to get his hands on some of FR’s property. Or FR had something of value RB wanted.

MC could’ve let slip details of his ex husband’s finances and belongings, and RB thought he’d help himself to it.

We previously discussed if RB used Marion to walk into a bank, for instance, and empty a safety deposit box, that contained property deeds or valuables?

Or perhaps he tried to do it himself (or used an accomplice) using Marion’s passport. In that case, the theory is RB scammed Marion for her valuables but the name change was simply to get a legal passport he could use to rob FR as well.

This might be why Marion couldn’t simply be discarded and left stranded like other victims. She needed to disappear to erase his connection to FR.

 

[Estelle]

 

[hoodunnit]

Does anyone remember where to find the old newspaper photo of RB (possibly with DhD) and business partners in relation to the opening of the furniture store in Belgium?

Australia - Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #14

Those items were stolen in 1976 shortly after he married DdH. Some may have made their way into his home but I imagine most would be sold on for cash. I doubt they had a permanent home at that time. As to Mr.C's comment - IMO it was very deliberate for whatever reason. wish we had a photo of...

www.websleuths.com

Message #1046 and #1053 has the article also

 

[Deleted member 249471]

About the liver…

A liver function test is a common blood test included in the basic ‘full blood test’ you get when you go to your doctor. It’s a regular part of a check-up.

If the liver function test shows ‘elevated enzymes’ it’s a sign something’s wrong. It could be an infection, alcohol abuse, drug abuse, or even taking too much paracetamol. Essentially, ingesting too much poison for the liver to handle.

At this time, a doctor might suggest you get a liver ultrasound. An ultrasound can actually see if the liver is damaged by the poisons mentioned above.

A liver ultrasound is what RB asked his Belgian victim for.

The podcast said Marion had a liver function test.

But also remember Marion had seen the doctor before travelling. The podcast originally said she had a colonoscopy and a tumour or polyp but then retracted it.

So Marion getting a liver function test may not be a big deal. Again, you get them as part of the ‘full blood test’ package for check-ups.

But now it has me thinking… was the colonoscopy RB’s idea?

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Now why would RB want a liver ultrasound of his victims?

My first thought is so that he has photo evidence of an undamaged liver to send to a prospective buyer.

I agree he may’ve been drugging all his victims, like he allegedly did to GGB! But if he wanted to make sure he wasn’t overdosing them and accidentally leaving evidence of poisoning, then he would only need a basic blood test, not an ultrasound.

The fact he asked for an ultrasound is extremely nefarious if you ask me.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

There’s a whole underground cannibalism market in Japan (and other places) for humans that like to eat body parts like a delicacy. I saw this in the movie Fresh, so it must be fact.

And obviously, the organ black market.

 

[BabeBlues]

Australia - Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #14

Those items were stolen in 1976 shortly after he married DdH. Some may have made their way into his home but I imagine most would be sold on for cash. I doubt they had a permanent home at that time. As to Mr.C's comment - IMO it was very deliberate for whatever reason. wish we had a photo of...

www.websleuths.com

Message #1046 and #1053 has the article also

Thank you!

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Oh wow. Just catching up on posts from end of July I missed. The photo at the furniture store is amazing! And the story about the furniture store lawyer/finance guy ‘accidentally’ pushing his mother down the stairs because he wanted to sell her house to property developers. Wow.

I don’t know of he operated alone or not with regards to Marion and his other love scams, but it’s clear he did know dodgy people. I don’t for a second believe that furniture store was legit, but a cover for something else.

I haaaaaaate to say it but some of the property investment stuff we found of real FR were super dodgy. I do wonder if they crossed paths while doing ‘business’. And when RB said FR and MC were customers at the store… they were there for whatever else the furniture store was doing?

 

[BabeBlues]

Do we know if the photo from the 80's in the Lux Post was ever established that it was actually RB? IMO this looks very much like him in comparison to the newest photo that has been shared.

 

[DerZuschauer]

Portuguese version of latest article (no paywall):

CONTACTO - Informação sem fronteiras | Contacto

Notícias e reportagens sobre o Luxemburgo e fronteiras, no jornal de língua portuguesa mais premiado fora de Portugal.

www.wort.lu

The full LuxPost article/picture from 1980 is in here:

CONTACTO - Informação sem fronteiras | Contacto

Notícias e reportagens sobre o Luxemburgo e fronteiras, no jornal de língua portuguesa mais premiado fora de Portugal.

www.wort.lu

afaik it is not clear (yet) whether he is the one on the left or on the right.

 

[MrsWattle]