Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #6

[Estelle]

There are two main hooks he could have used to get Marion to do what she did.
1. Marriage - getting married in Japan on the way to Europe would hook most women if they were in love. It sounds romantic, he could fake all the documentation more easily, perhaps he said he would register it and didn't, good reason to have to change her name to Remakel as it would be difficult to change it otherwise while travelling, so get the passport in his surname before they leave which meant changing her name by deed poll.
2. Buying a school in England - having been a teacher all her life, that is all Marion knew. That would motivate her to sell her house and move her money overseas. Then, as he husband, he would have access to it or get her to give him a POA.
But if he told her that she was going to just be a housewife in Luxembourg after marriage, I don't think that would have appealed to Marion. It appears that they didn't even go to Luxembourg unless they had a short stay there before England and he pretended to own a lovely house there.

 

[KiwiNZ]

Yes I agree with the buying of a school idea. But why did she put housewife in Luxembourg on her arrivals card?

Good point - she wouldn't have wrote housewife if the plan was to buy a school.

Maybe he said they were come back to organize finances to buy a house in Luxembourg

I reckon he left her in the UK and said he was going to Luxembourg to look for a house for them, then said he found one and meet him back in Aus to do the finances

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I wonder how many women were dumped in a foreign country

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

There are two main hooks he could have used to get Marion to do what she did.
1. Marriage - getting married in Japan on the way to Europe would hook most women if they were in love. It sounds romantic, he could fake all the documentation more easily, perhaps he said he would register it and didn't, good reason to have to change her name to Remakel as it would be difficult to change it otherwise while travelling, so get the passport in his surname before they leave which meant changing her name by deed poll.
2. Buying a school in England - having been a teacher all her life, that is all Marion knew. That would motivate her to sell her house and move her money overseas. Then, as he husband, he would have access to it or get her to give him a POA.
But if he told her that she was going to just be a housewife in Luxembourg after marriage, I don't think that would have appealed to Marion. It appears that they didn't even go to Luxembourg unless they had a short stay there before England and he pretended to own a lovely house there.

His mother remained in Belgium right? Perhaps there was/is still a family home..? Maybe siblings living there still?

 

[Deleted member 249471]

The fact Marion left most of her money in Aus and only transferred $20k to the UK, to me, is indication she had no intention of running off to marry and live a new life in Luxembourg, despite what the passenger card says. We know HE vividly lies on passenger cards!

She also renewed her teacher's licence at the same time she resigned.

Remember RB told Janet her could sell her coins in the UK? Maybe Marions's container that contained the valuable art, wasn't to ship 'in case she wanted to permanently move', but she gave him those things to sell. Due to blackmail or coercion.

Just an idea.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

There are two main hooks he could have used to get Marion to do what she did.
1. Marriage - getting married in Japan on the way to Europe would hook most women if they were in love. It sounds romantic, he could fake all the documentation more easily, perhaps he said he would register it and didn't, good reason to have to change her name to Remakel as it would be difficult to change it otherwise while travelling, so get the passport in his surname before they leave which meant changing her name by deed poll.
2. Buying a school in England - having been a teacher all her life, that is all Marion knew. That would motivate her to sell her house and move her money overseas. Then, as he husband, he would have access to it or get her to give him a POA.
But if he told her that she was going to just be a housewife in Luxembourg after marriage, I don't think that would have appealed to Marion. It appears that they didn't even go to Luxembourg unless they had a short stay there before England and he pretended to own a lovely house there.

True but maybe she was happy to be a housewife for a while? Maybe the trip was solely to ‘elope’ and then return. Or the name change and trip was so they could return as ‘we are married’ without legally doing it. Perhaps enough of a commitment from marions POV. And enough for him as he had a licence in Remakel that backed up proof they were married with her passport? I’m sure on deed poll name changes a reson for name change is required.. what reason was put on that? Was it marriage? Do you need to supply any documents to back up your reason claim? I’d say you don’t as man of many names has done it plenty of times.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Good point - she wouldn't have wrote housewife if the plan was to buy a school.

Maybe he said they were come back to organize finances to buy a house in Luxembourg

I reckon he left her in the UK and said he was going to Luxembourg to look for a house for them, then said he found one and meet him back in Aus to do the finances

Yes! I think he said he found a house too, so returned to take out money so they could go back and live in Europe.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Or Marion was aware she was changing her name and travelling on an alias. So there was no need to use her 'real life' on the passenger card. The most inconspicuous story is that she is a married housewife.

If she was trying to hide her identity (and we know she was as she hid it from her family and friends) then there's no reason to use a fake name but reveal she really was a divorced teacher going to the UK with a strange man.

There are many reason why Marion might've known she was traveling in disguise, didn't tell a soul, and pretended everything was great through postcards. Main reason being that he blackmailed her or fed her a story that compelled her to go along with his scheme.

Lots of conmen tell outlandish lies and create a fake reality their victims believe. Like being a secret agent who needs their help. Or he's a very wealthy businessman who has a disgruntled associate or government after him so his victims aren't allowed to tell anyone, etc.

Marion may be trusting, but she is also very smart and an accomplished teacher. She's probably more GGB than JO. She may have realised RB was not the real Fernand and called him out. He might've blackmailed her and made her follow through.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

. . . A bigger mystery is why he would admit to being at Marion's? Is this why he is also admitting to storing her boxes? Have they found some of her belongings at his house? Uh oh.

FWIW in an earlier post I mentioned how con artists weave details into their lies to create new narratives. They don't just lie, they make up stories. Like storing Marion's items for her. That's the first thing I thought of when I heard his elaborate stories about meeting Marion before, her responding to his personal ad being a coincidence, the airline pilot friend of Marions, and storing her items. All so elaborate to create context, but yet, sounding false.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

FWIW in an earlier post I mentioned how con artists weave details into their lies to create new narratives. They don't just lie, they make up stories. Like storing Marion's items for her. That's the first thing I thought of when I heard his elaborate stories about meeting Marion before, her responding to his personal ad being a coincidence, the airline pilot friend of Marions, and storing her items. All so elaborate to create context, but yet, sounding false.

It's going to be interesting to see RB next week, go into 'backpedal mode' trying to find ways to explain they evidence they've found. For sure, he will weave in some truth to anchor the lies.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

If they found something that belonged to Marion at his place, maybe he concocted a story that she gave it to him, and then just embellished the story a bit.

I can't think of any other reason he would admit to being there.

Oh wait, what if they found his DNA so they have proof he was there.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

I'll jump in with theory on Marion's travel. Based on TINDER SWINDLER, all the travel is to mess with women's heads. Chaos and uncertainty. Also it's how con men present their successful selves. Blum can masquerade as Coin Deal or Rich Guy in UK because it's not Australia. So he gets Marion to UK and finds out the real money is back in Australia. He's put in too much time to let real money get away, so they have to go back. Were they married? Who knows, but I believe Marion thought she was. Nothing I've learned about Marion would preclude her investing in the coin trade or some other business scheme-- especially if she had been conned to sell house, travel to Europe. We don't even know that her travel plans were her own idea. As someone earlier wrote, she could unveil the marriage when they were successful in their business venture.

 

[centred]

Or Marion was aware she was changing her name and travelling on an alias. So there was no need to use her 'real life' on the passenger card. The most inconspicuous story is that she is a married housewife.

If she was trying to hide her identity (and we know she was as she hid it from her family and friends) then there's no reason to use a fake name but reveal she really was a divorced teacher going to the UK with a strange man.

There are many reason why Marion might've known she was traveling in disguise, didn't tell a soul, and pretended everything was great through postcards. Main reason being that he blackmailed her or fed her a story that compelled her to go along with his scheme.

Lots of conmen tell outlandish lies and create a fake reality their victims believe. Like being a secret agent who needs their help. Or he's a very wealthy businessman who has people a disgruntled associate or government after him so his victims aren't allowed to tell anyone, etc.

Marion may be trusting, but she is also very smart and an accomplished teacher. She's probably more GGB than JO. She may have realised RB was not the real Fernand and called him out. He might've blackmailed her and made her follow through.

Marion "renewed " or re applied for a passport , how long before was this done ? 1996
Marion told her family at xmas in 96 she was intending to travel overseas in 1997

Do i recall a post recently re "immigration" inquiries done by Marion in year ????

So her plans were in play for at least 6 months or more before she left ....
Packed up her life in storage etc , sold her house ,transferred money overseas ,
none of this requires a name change in theory ( and she is not hiding these facts from her family )

Why the name change ?

he didn't ask the others too change their names (only hair color )obviously HE didn't need her to change HER name for her to access her own money ?
i doubt if Marion was going along with all this willingly she would need a name change .


So WHY the name change ?

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Mid 1996
Applies for passport in Marion Barter name. Does not travel on this passport and it's unknown why she applied for it.

Christmas December 1996
Visits parents and informs them of her plans to travel in 1997 for possibly a year.

25 April 1997
Sells home after three weeks on sale for $165,000 ($15,000 less than purchase price).

13 May 1997
Name change via deed poll to Florabella Natalia Marion Remakel.

16 May
Passport application with new name witnessed by dentist.

21 May 1997
Moves in with Lesley Loveday. May is the month she packed up her things and Sally saw the 'friend from arts centre' man in Marion's car.

22 June 1997
Marion declines lift to Brisbane Airport. Dropped off at Southport bus station. Departs Australia at 9.38pm on a Korean Airlines flight.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Ok this is a left of field theory.

We know stuff had gone down at the Southport school, she was miserable and crying about being there as sally had said.

We have since learned of a lot of child sexual abuse allegations at the school that had been occurring for decades - well reported in the media.

What if Marion knew something about that? And had been threatened to be quiet.

What if he suggested I can help you?

I know it’s way left but I can’t help think the secrecy that Marion had at that time was of free will

~ not revealing everything that was upsetting her at work.
~ the mystery man in the car
~ the change of name
~ the passport change
~ wanting to be dropped at bus station to travel to airport rather than airport
~ a storage unit that no one has found

There’s a lot of secrecy so just saying perhaps the secrecy was for her own reasons and not for the man of many names.

what if he played the ‘trust me I can help you ‘ card?

Certainly his own reasons would have been to follow his normal path of life and acquire whatever he could from her.. but with Marion believing he was helping her?

searching my brain for other theories…

I have always been a bit sus on how a teacher who loves her job can suddenly be distressed at working there.

We know there was a complaint made at school about her..but who is to say the complaint was legit.. it may have been done to get her out because she knew dodgy stuff was going on that school?

just throwing this out there…. Thoughts anyone?

 

[centred]

Mid 1996
Applies for passport in Marion Barter name. Does not travel on this passport and it's unknown why she applied for it.

I renewed mine in 1996 and never used it , i renewed because i received notice my 10 years was coming up and it was cheaper and easier to just renew before cancellation . She may have done this as she traveled in the 80 s unless it specifies she had to reapply completely

oops

 

[Deleted member 249471]

We heard from two witnesses.

IMO His intention is to use whatever means possible to separate his victims from their lives, jobs and loved ones. Get them to give up everything and get them overseas. Make them leave luggage at an airport locker. Then return and steal from them some more. Erase his connection to them. And plant evidence his victims willing left for a new life.

He failed with GGB and JO. He succeeded with Marion.

That's really all I know for sure

 

[centred]

Ok this is a left of field theory.

We know stuff had gone down at the Southport school, she was miserable and crying about being there as sally had said.

We have since learned of a lot of child sexual abuse allegations at the school that had been occurring for decades - well reported in the media.

What if Marion knew something about that? And had been threatened to be quiet.

What if he suggested I can help you?

I know it’s way left but I can’t help think the secrecy that Marion had at that time was of free will

~ not revealing everything that was upsetting her at work.
~ the mystery man in the car
~ the change of name
~ the passport change
~ wanting to be dropped at bus station to travel to airport rather than airport
~ a storage unit that no one has found

There’s a lot of secrecy so just saying perhaps the secrecy was for her own reasons and not for the man of many names.

what if he played the ‘trust me I can help you ‘ card?

Certainly his own reasons would have been to follow his normal path of life and acquire whatever he could from her.. but with Marion believing he was helping her?

searching my brain for other theories…

I have always been a bit sus on how a teacher who loves her job can suddenly be distressed at working there.

We know there was a complaint made at school about her..but who is to say the complaint was legit.. it may have been done to get her out because she knew dodgy stuff was going on that school?

just throwing this out there…. Thoughts anyone?

Its good to be reminded of those issues before she changed her name amidst her plans to travel
It would be good to know how long these issues were building up re her school scandal and the shame involved for everyone involved .

It has become obvious she was distressed and looking forward to getting away with the possibility of a new beginning in some way .

It is possible HE made it that tad more difficult for her if he made a false anonymous allegation and more desperate and easier to con

Was Marion being groomed over some time compared to the others we know of was this because she was a "tad " more intelligent and more difficult to snag and the "marriage " was used to hook line and sinker the victim which made it easier to get her to go along with giving him control of the cash as he already has the valuable items remember in storage or wherever

 

[roland625]

2. Buying a school in England - having been a teacher all her life, that is all Marion knew. That would motivate her to sell her house and move her money overseas. Then, as he husband, he would have access to it or get her to give him a POA.

I think that must have been his invention. Anybody who knows anything about schools would know 'buying' or opening a school in England would require millions.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Re admitting he was at Marion's house. I can't see him doing that unless there is proof that he was.

Someone saw him there. Neighbour, postie, someone who knew Marion.
Someone saw a car registered to him there.
Someone's dash cam, google street view. Less likely it was a dash cam back then and it was early days for google street view, not sure when it started.
Something Marion owned was found in his house.
His DNA was found in Marion's house. Long shot, so long ago and no news that the place was searched.
After all, why search back then as she had sold the place, was still alive and was last seen on a bench on her way to the airport.

But maybe it's been searched more recently.